New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Angel Ariel]

The problem when you include everything under the son as a "disability, it loses all meaning....

No, actually, it has a very specific meaning. The fact that acknowledging reality appears to be threatening to some doesn't mean the reality is any less real.

 

[Grantwil93]

Anecdotally, I work at a relatively popular family attraction at WDW and when I'm at the entrance in charge of LL scans, I see about 60% being DAS throughout the day. Half of that 60% of are families with wheelchair tagged strollers or parties with an ecv/wheelchair.

I don't really judge at all and just follow procedure. I respect invisible disability and its not my place or job to question anyone.

But I will say that I fully believe any report about more than half of LL being DAS currently. Because that's been my own experience. I'm not sure whether this change will be good or bad or if any other systems will help, just sharing my experience.

I will say that ECV's and Wheelchairs are operationally challenging for ppl to navigate our queue and how it slows down our operation tremendously. Not in a way that's frustrating or anything(again, full respect and understanding) just in a way that makes me nervous about the impact of potentially forcing more families into vehicles or chairs

 

[haveyoumetmark]

Amy from Touringplans visited MK and talked to guest services about the changes. Some of the answers she received were interesting. They said they were serious about the developmental disabilities requirement. Another that the return to line pass/ language not sure yet, would not be a guest services thing but an attractions cast thing. She said boots on the ground people. So to me that sounds like it’s not really an accommodation but will be available to all at the moment needed in lines.

Mess! Seems like there’s no procedure for return to queue, I’m sure that will go well. Ops are passing it around like a hot potato leaving those without “autism or similar” in limbo.

There is listerature indicatingn disability identification has increased since Covid, and Long Covid is now recognized by the ADA as a disability.

There's also been increases in rates of diagnosis for many conditions, including autism, due to better screening and availablity of screening services. Autism is now diagnosed at a rate of 1 in 36 children. Diagnoses of genetic disorders resulting in developmental disabilities beyond the typically heard of diagnoses have increased in as whole exome sequencing has become more widely/readily covered by insurances.

1 in 4 adults have some type of disability.

The increases in disability identification should be resulting in more proactive planning by society in general, but that doesn't appear to be the case, and isn't likely to change any time soon.

This is exactly right.

Oh brother, the don't put words in my mouth person. I was just commenting about the 1 in 4, which is BS by the way, and how Disney needs to change their system....

Tell me you don’t know a thing about accessibility without telling me you don’t know a thing about accessibility.

You can literally look it up. Everything that poster said is spot on. Disability is far more prevalent and common than people realize, and will only increase given more awareness, better screening, aging populations, etc. That doesn’t mean it will necessarily affect queuing, but it’s still something Disney needs to be cognizant of… and from what I’ve seen so far, the updates feel a little botched.

 

[Grantwil93]

I'm also wondering how this will impact red tags for strollers/wagons, because the abuse of the "no questions asked" policy with GR about that has lead to astounding amounts of "I don't want to have to park my stroller or I want a wagon, my kid has..." behavior and exploitation

Again, ruining it for those who need it and making operations more challenging for CM's who deal with these strollers in queues.

Just the other day a couple of CM parents who were there with family had red tags that were 3 years old(they expire and need to be updated just like DAS) on their strollers and the kids were running around. We made them go to GR and get new tags b4 they could ride. But clearly they just use their strollers as a bag and want it with them. They kinda just admitted it to us. Which isn't what those are for.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Anecdotally, I work at a relatively popular family attraction at WDW and when I'm at the entrance in charge of LL scans, I see about 60% being DAS throughout the day. Half of that 60% of are families with wheelchair tagged strollers or parties with an ecv/wheelchair.

I don't really judge at all and just follow procedure. I respect invisible disability and its not my place or job to question anyone.

But I will say that I fully believe any report about more than half of LL being DAS currently. Because that's been my own experience. I'm not sure whether this change will be good or bad or if any other systems will help, just sharing my experience.

I will say that ECV's and Wheelchairs are operationally challenging for ppl to navigate our queue and how it slows down our operation tremendously. Not in a way that's frustrating or anything(again, full respect and understanding) just in a way that makes me nervous about the impact of potentially forcing more families into vehicles or chairs

Appreciate that perspective, thank you!

Just as one note on the strollers as a wheelchair. It can be needed for both physical and sensory reasons. Physical reasons alone wouldn't qualify the person for a DAS. (Same is true if the ECV users are the DAS holder). Disney has been very good about maintaining that boundary in our experience.

 

[Grantwil93]

Appreciate that perspective, thank you!

Just as one note on the strollers as a wheelchair. It can be needed for both physical and sensory reasons. Physical reasons alone wouldn't qualify the person for a DAS. (Same is true if the ECV users are the DAS holder). Disney has been very good about maintaining that boundary in our experience.

Yeah, I get it! I know it is also for sensory, I just know that there is fraud in that area too(cm's actually talk more about red tag fraud than DAS fraud, at least in my area. Cause it affects us more) and it doesn't seem to be addressed by these new concepts.

My cousin has Autism, so I'm very sympathetic to the needs. Just seeing what other ppl think of the red tags in conjunction with these updates!

 

[pigglewiggle]

I guess I'm not thinking of a chronic illness (some) in terms of a disability. That's why the 1/4 seemed excessive. One of my parents has positive pressure hydrocephalus and their ability to walk is almost non-existent at this point. But my mind tells me that is an illness, not a disability, but I would think that ADA would find that to be a disability?
It's confusing!

 

[DryerLintFan]

I’m aware it’s invisible, yes.

I just think a large portion of people who have used DAS without truly needing it aren’t the kind of people to try to pass themselves off as autistic.

It’s a pretty big leap from exaggerating your IBS to looking someone in the eye and fabricating a mental illness.

I was going to like your comment but then it got really ignorant at the end there. Autism is a developmental disability, NOT a mental illness

 

[Trauma]

A lot of this falls onto the fact of how useless and terrible G+ is.

When we used to be able to book 3 fast passes ahead of time we didn’t even need DAS with Grandpa because he is only able to do a few rides anyways.

If Disney just scrapped the whole G+ debacle and sold an Express Pass like Universal then I wouldn’t have to care about DAS either. I Just pay for the pass and we get on the ride we want when we want.

G+ is such a failure that it multiplies all the other operational issues.

 

[DryerLintFan]

One thing I wonder is how, if they still are not requesting documentation, is WDW going to determine who lied on their application and permanently ban them. Stalk them with a CM? Assign someone to look at social media posts?

I think they put that wording in there so if they catch a tour guide or whatever abusing DAS they can ban them, and add a general discouragement overall. But that wording has been in there for years and i haven’t ever heard of anyone getting banned for this so

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Plus taking it out of the hands of front line CMs.

I hate to say it, but GR at WDW is very, very cliquey. Back when I did the CP we all had one friend who had a friend and guess what, they had a GAC.

…they never understand their very minuscule level of importance on the planet

…pretty much standard for the horse jockeys

 

[Angel Ariel]

I guess I'm not thinking of a chronic illness (some) in terms of a disability. That's why the 1/4 seemed excessive. One of my parents has positive pressure hydrocephalus and their ability to walk is almost non-existent at this point. But my mind tells me that is an illness, not a disability, but I would think that ADA would find that to be a disability?
It's confusing!

Very generally speaking, if a condition significantly impacts a person's ability to do activities of daily living (like walking), it would be considered a disability.

The official ADA definition is:

"An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment."

 

[Chip Chipperson]

A big part of the purpose behind accessible legislation was to open up optional activities.

Disney would have to demonstrate necessity. Too many disabled people like it here isn’t much of an argument, especially when disability and participation have been increasing.

I think there's a decent chance Disney  could demonstrate necessity, given the impact abuse is having on its operations. Whether they ever  would go that far is a different matter. But there is obviously a difference between a concert or sports venue saying, "Prove you need accessible seating," and Disney saying, "Provide proof that you can't wait on line" when there's little incentive to lie about needing accessible seating in an arena or stadium when those seats are usually not in premium locations, but guests have obviously figured out how to lie to get a free version of G+/ILL that has no limitations on re-rides and available time slots can never sell out. Amusement parks are unique in that aspect

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A lot of this falls onto the fact of how useless and terrible G+ is.

When we used to be able to book 3 fast passes ahead of time we didn’t even need DAS with Grandpa because he is only able to do a few rides anyways.

If Disney just scrapped the whole G+ debacle and sold an Express Pass like Universal then I wouldn’t have to care about DAS either. I Just pay for the pass and we get on the ride we want when we want.

G+ is such a failure that it multiplies all the other operational issues.

There is zero doubt genie is the problem…and that is so because the management consciously has constricted supply for a sales tactic

Is there anything wrong with that from a business perspective? No.
But it is not how they ran parks for the first 40 years.
So I laugh when people say “I think the parks are better than ever”

They are not. And they cannot be…by design. They want you frustrated to swallow more price increases. They also want you scheduled down to the second to trim so much “fat” out of the operation they get down to the bones.

We all can have opinions. But the truth is constant.

 

[DeadyRoosevelt]

There is zero doubt genie is the problem…and that is so because the management consciously has constricted supply for a sales tactic

Is there anything wrong with that from a business perspective? No.
But it is not how they ran parks for the first 40 years.
So I laugh when people say “I think the parks are better than ever”

They are not. And they cannot be…by design. They want you frustrated to swallow more price increases. They also want you scheduled down to the second to trim so much “fat” out of the operation they get down to the bones.

We all can have opinions. But the truth is constant.

100%. These are self-inflicted wounds. But they will take operational issues any day of the week if they can keep adding revenue streams and enough people say "oh well, it is what it is."

I was NOT talking about ABA

Should we talk about ABBA?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There are some stunning numbers that Disney is not going to publish. But the percentage of DAS in LL is unbelievable.

Then that means it’s being scammed. There’s no other reasonable conclusion. Even if the amount of legitimate disabilities in Disney parks is higher than on the streets - which it undoubtedly is - it should still only be a single digit number on an average day.

My child requires accommodations to read. To write. To communicate. By the definition used by that poster, its not appropriate to teach her how to read or write or communicate.

70 years ago my daughter likely would have been hidden away in an institution, not joyfully playing musical chairs with Alice in Wonderland at Disneyland.

(ETA to change 50 to 70 because my sense of time still wants to tell me that 50 years ago was the 50s/60s.)

I think that’s a bridge too far. Nobody is suggesting regression on accommodations. What Disney has to address is abuse caused by their park operation. That’s what this is…avoiding fees and lines in parks that don’t have nearly enough seat capacity.

 

[Chi84]

I think there's a decent chance Disney  could demonstrate necessity, given the impact abuse is having on its operations. Whether they ever  would go that far is a different matter. But there is obviously a difference between a concert or sports venue saying, "Prove you need accessible seating," and Disney saying, "Provide proof that you can't wait on line" when there's little incentive to lie about needing accessible seating in an arena or stadium when those seats are usually not in premium locations, but guests have obviously figured out how to lie to get a free version of G+/ILL that has no limitations on re-rides and available time slots can never sell out. Amusement parks are unique in that aspect

Accessible seating is covered by the ADA and involves physical modifications. No documentation is required, but if all of the ADA required accessible seats are occupied, the next person who needs it is out of luck and the business has not violated the ADA by failing to provide it.

Given the number of persons with disabilities and their families, Disney may be able to establish that giving people line return times (which are otherwise sold as part of its business model) is not possible without severely impacting its business and the experience for other guests.

This could be why they are trying to accommodate persons with physical disabilities differently from those with autism or the like.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Lightning lanes for many rides are 15 minutes or more. If you are using DAS for peoplemover and are also using DAS for Soarin (where you are definitely waiting at least 15 minutes even if it’s clear until the merge), then you are likely using a DAS that you don’t actually need.

Honestly, you have to prepare for really long waits. Some LL lines have been long. And a few years back we went on Rise and The ride broke down while we were in the absolute WORST part of the queue for it. The whole scenario was almost unbearable, and then they brought out bananas for everyone so it was unbearable AND it smelled, which was way over the line. They were able to pull anyone who needed it though, and You could sit outside in the backstage Area and rejoin your party after. But the ride went down for like 45 minutes and They didn’t dump the line.

sometimes stuff just happens and You have to cope the best you can. But that doesn’t mean you don’t need DAS, because having it helps you recover.

Although I’ll be honest that wrecked me and We left shortly after.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think that’s a bridge too far. Nobody is suggesting regression on accommodations. What Disney has to address is abuse caused by their park operation. That’s what this is…avoiding fees and lines in parks that don’t have nearly enough seat capacity.

I want to be clear, I was responding to comments made by a specific poster with this statement, not speaking to these changes specifically or the abuse Disney needs to address.

I agree Disney needs to address the abuse, and have been clear about that throughout this thread.

 

[flynnibus]

I guess I'm not thinking of a chronic illness (some) in terms of a disability. That's why the 1/4 seemed excessive. One of my parents has positive pressure hydrocephalus and their ability to walk is almost non-existent at this point. But my mind tells me that is an illness, not a disability, but I would think that ADA would find that to be a disability?
It's confusing!

only because you're confusing terms. 'disability' is a legal term under the ADA - not a medical term. In your scenario, the Inability to walk is a 'disability' in your example - while the 'positive pressure hydrocephalus' would be your illness. The ADA isn't as concerned with the disease behind your in ability to walk... but focuses on the impact of "substantially limits one or more major life activities".

Basically what people should focus on is if a person has a condition that limits from major life activities, what can be done to not unnecessarily exclude them. That's the real intent of the law. Everything else is implementation...