New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

Club Cooloholic

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
Ravenclaw78 said:
I'll just say that I do go plenty of places that can be challenging for me but not impossible without asking for the accommodations they make available, especially if there's a quiet area I can go to if I get overwhelmed. WDW is a special sort of challenge, for I think pretty much everyone regardless of abilities, and while I can and do go on rides without DAS if they have a posted wait time of >30 minutes (I'm usually good to around 20-30 minutes before hitting overload, unless there's something like a malfunctioning light in the queue that's strobing), I'd definitely have a return time booked for something else while I'm doing that. Honestly, I often hit the return queue as much as an hour after the window because there were other things I was able to use the standby queue for on the way there or we got hungry and stopped for food. The thing is, that I can only do that because the accommodations that Disney offered give me enough peace of mind that my overall stress levels are low enough for me to enjoy most of the park in a way that is closer to a typical guest. The new alternative accommodations may be sufficient to get me to that point. If they are, I'll be happy enough to just buy the Multipass thing if I can't get DAS anymore, but I won't know that until I can actually try them out myself.
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I think the issue is one person's "typical" is another person's atypical.
 
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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Splash4eva said:
I truly dk who and who was liking it all so i wasnt pointing you out just stating what was going on….
But ill ask you this. Do you think lying and cheating is only attractive at Disney for DAS or it basically exists in every day life where someone sees a way to get something for free? Lets face it. No matter what they do people who lied and cheated will continue to do so. All this did was take away and granted a very favorable system from people who legit needed it and legit will not lie to obtain it now and those who lied will continue to do so. And if i recall someone said that local APs were a decent makeup of th DAS system. Again not saying they should not be included but my guess a smaller percent of who goes to disney annually is taking up a larger percent of DAS
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Of course people lie outside of WDW. That doesn't mean that Disney shouldn't seek operational improvements to a broken DAS system, though. They are still providing reasonable accommodations via AQR and Rider Switch (and RTQ in rare cases). There is a difference between saying, "I need to be accomodated," and "I want my accomodation to be superior to what other guests receive." The changes made still provide reasonable accomodation and have a better chance of holding up in court compared to requiring proof (which may or may not prove a need for DAS and may or may not be legal at all). I know you have said that you would be fine with having to provide proof but it is clear that Disney does not believe they can require it at this time, so it is not an option.
 
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Ravenclaw78

Well-Known Member
Honestly, DAS abuse (by which I mean websites and so-called "tour guides" advising people without disabilities to game the system) has existed since day one, but anecdotally and backed up by Len's data and insider accounts, it got orders of magnitude worse when Genie+ was introduced. I put 100% of the blame on Disney's shoulders for not having foreseen the inevitable and glaringly obvious consequence of switching to a paid system. They could have made smaller changes to DAS simultaneously and ended up with Genie+ having more value to guests and fewer people seeking to cheat their way around it. Instead, they created a huge mess that they then couldn't solve without drastically altering both DAS and Genie+ 2 years later, and they compounded the problem further by providing such uselessly vague guidance to both disabled guests and CMs.
 
Club Cooloholic

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
Ravenclaw78 said:
Honestly, DAS abuse (by which I mean websites and so-called "tour guides" advising people without disabilities to game the system) has existed since day one, but anecdotally and backed up by Len's data and insider accounts, it got orders of magnitude worse when Genie+ was introduced. I put 100% of the blame on Disney's shoulders for not having foreseen the inevitable and glaringly obvious consequence of switching to a paid system. They could have made smaller changes to DAS simultaneously and ended up with Genie+ having more value to guests and fewer people seeking to cheat their way around it. Instead, they created a huge mess that they then couldn't solve without drastically altering both DAS and Genie+ 2 years later, and they compounded the problem further by providing such uselessly vague guidance to both disabled guests and CMs.
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I think there will always be people who want comfort over equal access and they feel deserve it no matter how it's done. And they consider themselves equally "disabled" to kids who really have no way to stand in a line if it means getting the same accomodations.
 
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Ravenclaw78

Well-Known Member
Chip Chipperson said:
Of course people lie outside of WDW. That doesn't mean that Disney shouldn't seek operational improvements to a broken DAS system, though. They are still providing reasonable accommodations via AQR and Rider Switch (and RTQ in rare cases). There is a difference between saying, "I need to be accomodated," and "I want my accomodation to be superior to what other guests receive." The changes made still provide reasonable accomodation and have a better chance of holding up in court compared to requiring proof (which may or may not prove a need for DAS and may or may not be legal at all). I know you have said that you would be fine with having to provide proof but it is clear that Disney does not believe they can require it at this time, so it is not an option.
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I guess it boils down to how well the accommodations work and how consistently CMs on the phone and at the rides explain and implement them. I've seen plenty of people declaring that the accommodations they've been offered instead of DAS are completely unacceptable, but a lot of that is noise from people who haven't actually gone to the park and tried to use them. Change can be very difficult, and anxiety about change can cause irrational responses and catastrophizing, including perceiving things like being laughed at by CMs that never actually happened. I know that when I compare notes with my wife about situations where I had a disproportionate response, our perceptions of what other people said or did differ greatly. I also know that the CMs were unprepared for the change, that official training was insufficient, and that the procedures can vary so much from ride to ride that the resulting unpredictability can be a huge problem for anyone who depends on structure and consistency. As I've said, I'm doing my best to keep an open mind, and I think that a lot of the struggles will settle out over time through some combination of refinements to the process and CMs getting more experience with process.
 
Club Cooloholic

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
Chip Chipperson said:
Of course people lie outside of WDW. That doesn't mean that Disney shouldn't seek operational improvements to a broken DAS system, though. They are still providing reasonable accommodations via AQR and Rider Switch (and RTQ in rare cases). There is a difference between saying, "I need to be accomodated," and "I want my accomodation to be superior to what other guests receive." The changes made still provide reasonable accomodation and have a better chance of holding up in court compared to requiring proof (which may or may not prove a need for DAS and may or may not be legal at all). I know you have said that you would be fine with having to provide proof but it is clear that Disney does not believe they can require it at this time, so it is not an option.
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Disney has to offer equal access, not superior comfort.
 
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Ravenclaw78

Well-Known Member
Fido Chuckwagon said:
What, exactly, do you think the average non-DAS user is experiencing?
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The average non-DAS user can, and typically does, ride lines with queues longer than 30 minutes. Not everyone is willing or able to wait 2 hours, but 30-60 minutes is within most people's tolerances. I don't mean "I only had time to ride half the rides". I mean that only half the rides were even possibilities for me before I started using DAS, regardless of how much time I'm spending in the park.

Also, anyone approaching the parks with the slightest clue of how to navigate them (which is, admittedly, far from every guest) can easily fit in most of the rides in a single park in the course of one day. Rope drop it and stay till closing and you'll probably fit all of them in, but I don't expect many people can handle that.
 
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Fido Chuckwagon

Well-Known Member
Splash4eva said:
Listen if someone rope drops gets Genie & buys ILL on most days i would comfortably say they can do an entire park easily and possibly head over to another
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I don’t agree with this for all but Ironman young adults without kids, but even if I did, it should be “the average guest without genie+” since that’s all that Disney is required to give access for.
 
Club Cooloholic

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
Fido Chuckwagon said:
I don’t agree with this for all but Ironman young adults without kids, but even if I did, it should be “the average guest without genie+” since that’s all that Disney is required to give access for.
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We have to stop by 2 or 3 pm if wee get there at opening. No matter how hot, with average crowds or heavy. My kids just wear down, and my wife will put limits. She has told me I have to schedule a few non to extremely light park days next trip, and no we don't go for 10 days or anything, we go 5 to 7.
I believe most guests have a time limit on what they can do before they have to leave a park or take an extended break. The difference is if one has DAS and able bodied mentally and physically enough, they can do that and then immediately walk onto an e ticket ride as opposed to going into a 90 minute wait. Do that three times and it adds up to not doing everything you want. Which is fine but that should be ok for everyone.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Splash4eva said:
Listen if someone rope drops gets Genie & buys ILL on most days i would comfortably say they can do an entire park easily and possibly head over to another
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If you rope drop on a “normal crowds” day you should easily be able to do the entire park if we are talking about DHS, DAK, DCA, and probably MK as well. Epcot is the tricky one because “entire park” means different things for different people. If you really want to experience the whole park, you need 2 data. Same with Disneyland park 2 days is needed.
 
J

jennab55

Active Member
Ravenclaw78 said:
Honestly, DAS abuse (by which I mean websites and so-called "tour guides" advising people without disabilities to game the system) has existed since day one, but anecdotally and backed up by Len's data and insider accounts, it got orders of magnitude worse when Genie+ was introduced. I put 100% of the blame on Disney's shoulders for not having foreseen the inevitable and glaringly obvious consequence of switching to a paid system. They could have made smaller changes to DAS simultaneously and ended up with Genie+ having more value to guests and fewer people seeking to cheat their way around it. Instead, they created a huge mess that they then couldn't solve without drastically altering both DAS and Genie+ 2 years later, and they compounded the problem further by providing such uselessly vague guidance to both disabled guests and CMs.
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So you are blaming Disney wanting to make money by adding a line skipping service for purchase for the reason people lied to get DAS? A lot of other parks out there also offer a paid line skipping option and no one seems to get mad at them for wanting to make money. No, the people who lie and exaggerate are partially to blame there. Disney is also partially to blame because they should have been more strict to begin with and not just approved every single person (like people with only mobility issues they said they weren’t approving but then did anyway).
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
jennab55 said:
So you are blaming Disney wanting to make money by adding a line skipping service for purchase for the reason people lied to get DAS?
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I mean it is part of the reason, we all agree with that correct?

I also wouldn’t say “people lied to get DAS” - the majority were being honest and giving legit disabilities.
 
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Ravenclaw78

Well-Known Member
jennab55 said:
So you are blaming Disney wanting to make money by adding a line skipping service for purchase for the reason people lied to get DAS? A lot of other parks out there also offer a paid line skipping option and no one seems to get mad at them for wanting to make money. No, the people who lie and exaggerate are partially to blame there. Disney is also partially to blame because they should have been more strict to begin with and not just approved every single person (like people with only mobility issues they said they weren’t approving but then did anyway).
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Well, that's fair. I'm not saying the people lying are justified, but they're a symptom of a larger problem. Likewise, I'm not blaming Disney for implementing a paid system, but I think it's clear that the way they implemented was less than optimal and a better implementation might have resulted in fewer guest complaints about Genie+ and not required altering DAS this drastically in order to fix the problems with their paid service now.
 

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