New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[jaklgreen]

I don’t think it’s a matter of standing but rather a reason why avoiding lines may not be required as a reasonable accommodation.

Lines are ubiquitous in our society. If you require a business to accommodate people by letting them skip lines, what are the implications for places other than theme parks?

That’s why I believe the only real solution is if society - through legislation like DOJ regulations - decides to impose specific mandates on large theme parks.

But not all lines are created equal. If you are waiting in line at the DMV, it is an open space where it is much easier to leave or have someone get to you in a medical emergency. Theme park lines are typically enclosed, winding, dark, and not easily accessible in an emergency. If they made the lines where you can easily step out and walk out as needed, none of this would be an issue. Having to squeeze your way past people, ECVs, strollers, and wheelchairs can be a challenge for some.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Great you know the spot... the example in question wasn't GA but Jerry Seinfeld which was setup with seats. About as white bread as it comes The photo won't come across without more local perspective... but the example stood out because it was so unexpected to us. They snaked the line all across the piers opposite the venue, and several blocks down the water front. It was posted as a 930pm show... at 8:56pm this was our view still after waiting in line for awhile and wondering was going on

View attachment 800206

At 9:10pm - lines had been opened.. but still stuck out across the way in lines...
View attachment 800205
It only took about 30mins once they opened the doors... but they didn't open the doors until less than 45mins before posted showtime... for a venue that includes drinking and bars

The point of the example was just to show how lines can be unexpected and are just things that you can't always plan around.

The GA example was more examples of concerts... take your pick of examples.. but what you see there is when people talk about how they cope, you often see people make MODIFICATIONS to what they do, rather than necessarily get accommodations to avoid the issue. That's an important distinction... behavior expectation changes... vs having their limitations accommodated by the venue.

It's probably too much like comparing apples to oranges (and I actually agree with your overall point/theme regarding the wait in line issue) but just playing devils advocate more than anything, one big difference between any of the examples one may make about waiting in lines outside of WDW, and a day at the parks, is in most case, be it a concert, a DMV, an airport line, you wait in your line, and then do that activity and are done with it. At the park its not like you just wait in a line to enter WDW, and then your free to enjoy your concert, or take your flight. You are talking about repeated waits in line throughout the day for as many rides as you are trying to get on. Dealing with a single 30M wait in line during a day is going to be alot different than repeated lines of varying lengths throughout the day.

 

[jaklgreen]

I agree with the poster that Disney is 'more extreme' in that waits are long and more frequent... but I have issue when someone advocates that their condition is a hard NO for such lines.. yet they navigate the rest of life w/o similar accommodations. Are they more frequent at Disney? Yes... but the argument isn't typically that people have a problem with accumulated waiting... but rather the experience in a single line/wait. So I don't find the 'Disney is different...' arguments that compelling. If someone has an issue with a 30min expectation to stay in a queue with others... for the most part that should apply to any similar queuing ask.

I don't really see Disney offering a paid line skip as a factor in the discussion about accommodations or not. The only angle it should come up is to help establish a limit on what the business should have to give away, because the system's existence helps establish that the commodity has a value, and the business relies on those sales. So in effect, it provides a path to arguing 'unreasonable' burden if that revenue were impacted too significantly by the requested accommodation.

I see it as more a argument about 'impracticality' of a specific accommodation request.. and not really part of the discussion about if waits are normal, expected, tolerances, etc. So I find it immaterial to the topic of "why does someone need an accommodation at Disney, but not at, some retailer's limited sale" (or whatever queuing situation you want to explore).. which is the current convo I was interjecting to.

Maybe in summary... I find the "paid" point immaterial in the "need" discussion and probably part of a defense in a "what accommodations are reasonable..." discussion.

But there is some convention at least from prior standards. The fact you charge for premium parking isn't an excuse to alter handicap parking spot requirements. It hasn't been a reason to prevent the use of accessible seating in a desirable area, etc. They don't let people argue they can't give an accommodation because it devalues their other product, etc.

I think a business like Disney would stick to the argument they made before... the extreme use of the line bypass has a negative effect on their ability to service it's customers.. irregardless of paid or not paid. The money would just come in to say you can't expect us to REMOVE this paid access to make more room for the disabled... there they would argue that's a fundamental change. The paid aspect just adds gravitas to the point that it's not just preference.. but a material part of the business.

You are assuming that people actually go to these other places with long lines. The reality is that for many, WDW was the one place that they could go because of DAS accommodation. I certainly don't do any other events. I actually missed out on a lot of events for my kids because they were outside without access to a restroom. I pay for everything online so that I don't have to wait in the lines at places like the DMV or if it is unavoidable, my husband goes. People have had to make major changes in their life to be able to live with their disabilities so you can't just look at it from your own personal point of view and what you do.
Thankfully in this age of technology, things are easier because much can be done online.

 

[Chi84]

You are assuming that people actually go to these other places with long lines. The reality is that for many, WDW was the one place that they could go because of DAS accommodation. I certainly don't do any other events. I actually missed out on a lot of events for my kids because they were outside without access to a restroom. I pay for everything online so that I don't have to wait in the lines at places like the DMV or if it is unavoidable, my husband goes. People have had to make major changes in their life to be able to live with their disabilities so you can't just look at it from your own personal point of view and what you do.
Thankfully in this age of technology, things are easier because much can be done online.

That’s true, but Disney can’t award DAS to everyone based on one person’s needs. That’s why providing accommodations based on the circumstances of each attraction, individual need, party size, length of line, etc. is intended to work better than the one-size-fits-all DAS. The issue is whether it will work for the person needing accommodation at that particular ride and time.

 

[flynnibus]

At the park its not like you just wait in a line to enter WDW, and then your free to enjoy your concert, or take your flight. You are talking about repeated waits in line throughout the day for as many rides as you are trying to get on. Dealing with a single 30M wait in line during a day is going to be alot different than repeated lines of varying lengths throughout the day.

This is the crux - you won't find people describing their limits this way, instead most treat it as any singular situation is problematic for them. This distinction is why it can create distrust when people question how these accommodations are so essential to someone at Disney, yet not elsewhere. Because people are easily lead to 'queuing is not unique to Disney...'

I think part of the problem is if you described the problem as a cumulative/endurance/repetition problem... then people would tell you to pace yourself and self-modify.

Similar to how not being able to walk 5 miles is not a disability... or withstand hours of heat walking around the park... people would be instructed to modify their behavior and seek normal aides to deal with their limitations. Not that you would be owed some individualized accommodation under disability law.

If you lean into it being the sum of having to wait in multiple lines as your limitation... you undermine your accommodation request as it will be something that devolves more into a personal staminia/capacity kind of situation.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

You are assuming that people actually go to these other places with long lines. The reality is that for many, WDW was the one place that they could go because of DAS accommodation. I certainly don't do any other events. I actually missed out on a lot of events for my kids because they were outside without access to a restroom. I pay for everything online so that I don't have to wait in the lines at places like the DMV or if it is unavoidable, my husband goes. People have had to make major changes in their life to be able to live with their disabilities so you can't just look at it from your own personal point of view and what you do.
Thankfully in this age of technology, things are easier because much can be done online.

I agree technology is a wonderful thing, and that things are generally alot easier with what can be done online. However unlike purchasing items online, remote DMV meetings, ect., given the nature of WDW, while online/apps can help reduce lines, I don't think it can eliminate them.

Look at GotG or Tron, where currently there are no standby lines, just getting a boarding group or LL+. There are still daily waits that take place just because you can't funnel people through fast enough to avoid a line building up.

 

[DoubleSwitchback]

This is the crux - you won't find people describing their limits this way, instead most treat it as any singular situation is problematic for them. This distinction is why it can create distrust when people question how these accommodations are so essential to someone at Disney, yet not elsewhere. Because people are easily lead to 'queuing is not unique to Disney...'

I think part of the problem is if you described the problem as a cumulative/endurance/repetition problem... then people would tell you to pace yourself and self-modify.

Similar to how not being able to walk 5 miles is not a disability... or withstand hours of heat walking around the park... people would be instructed to modify their behavior and seek normal aides to deal with their limitations. Not that you would be owed some individualized accommodation under disability law.

If you lean into it being the sum of having to wait in multiple lines as your limitation... you undermine your accommodation request as it will be something that devolves more into a personal staminia/capacity kind of situation.

Thank you for perfectly articulating this.

 

[flynnibus]

You are assuming that people actually go to these other places with long lines

I'm not assuming - It's pointing out the expectation of what a typical baseline includes.

Your response leads exactly to what I suspected... what you are describing is how people MODIFY their own behavior -- instead of rely only on accommodations. You and others have straight up said... 'we won't do that' (parapharasing) because of your disability.

When people don't include those modifications in the discussion... that's what creates the inconsistency in the story when someone tries to digest how you can't deal with 30mins of no-freedom in Disney... but can somehow elsewhere that we all experience as typical adults. The modifications are what people are doing to cope... instead of having direct accommodations from someone else.

The point being made is to show that the expectations of queuing at Disney aren't unique. What was unique, was how far Disney went to embrace and support people who had limitations.

So as you say... people saw Disney as a place they could do more than they could elsewhere. So in the context of today... that leads the question.. Is Disney really OBLIGATED to maintain that? What if Disney were more like everywhere else, and people had to modify their behavior or opt-out of participation. That's a negative in terms of losing customers and customers unhappy... but is that really the true norm? Was Disney a standout... and maybe choses to no longer be?

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I'm not assuming - It's pointing out the expectation of what a typical baseline includes.

Your response leads exactly to what I suspected... what you are describing is how people MODIFY their own behavior -- instead of rely only on accommodations. You and others have straight up said... 'we won't do that' (parapharasing) because of your disability.

When people don't include those modifications in the discussion... that's what creates the inconsistency in the story when someone tries to digest how you can't deal with 30mins of no-freedom in Disney... but can somehow elsewhere that we all experience as typical adults. The modifications are what people are doing to cope... instead of having direct accommodations from someone else.

The point being made is to show that the expectations of queuing at Disney aren't unique. What was unique, was how far Disney went to embrace and support people who had limitations.

So as you say... people saw Disney as a place they could do more than they could elsewhere. So in the context of today... that leads the question.. Is Disney really OBLIGATED to maintain that? What if Disney were more like everywhere else, and people had to modify their behavior or opt-out of participation. That's a negative in terms of losing customers and customers unhappy... but is that really the true norm? Was Disney a standout... and maybe choses to no longer be?

Your last paragraph sums this up very well. Do I think true Disney fans are going to stop going if they lost their DAS? Some sure, but Disney is hoping the average non DAS customer has a better experience overall, as well as the DAS customer that is approved.

 

[NotTheOne]

Your last paragraph sums this up very well. Do I think true Disney fans are going to stop going if they lost their DAS. Some sure, but Disney is hoping the average non DAS customer has a better experience overall, as well as the DAS customer that is approved.

Agree.

Also interesting that people (not sure if there were any on this thread or not) will pay for grocery delivery so they don't have to go to the store, but they think it's (literally) a crime to pay for Genie+.

 

[DoubleSwitchback]

The point being made is to show that the expectations of queuing at Disney aren't unique. What was unique, was how far Disney went to embrace and support people who had limitations.

And once we're talking about personal stamina and good customer service, and not binary accessibility, then I don't understand where the line can possibly be set. Why should someone with POTS or IBS skip standing in line "just in case", but not someone who is really unfit or just really, really hates the heat, so much so that it can ruin their enjoyment of the day?

 

[NotTheOne]

Honestly, it's impossible to respond to some of these posts without drawing a roadmap for others to exploit to then lie to get DAS. It's a bit frustrating for me, because there's things I'd love to respond to and clarify, but I'm trying to protect the program that is left for those like my daughter who do actually need this accommodation.

When is your call? All fingers & toes crossed for you and your DD.

 

[Angel Ariel]

When is your call? All fingers & toes crossed for you and your DD.

We typically travel in January, so it won't be for a while. Prices have risen that week though, so we may look into other weeks. Trying to work it with off-season days off on the school calendar. I'm hoping this settles out a bit by then.

 

[flynnibus]

Agree.

Also interesting that people (not sure if there were any on this thread or not) will pay for grocery delivery so they don't have to go to the store, but they think it's (literally) a crime to pay for Genie+.

well... one they can do at their own pace - or pay for convenience...

the other... they claim they can't do at their own pace because there is no variation in how you wait in line.

I think comparing those two paid services isn't a good analogy for this situation... if you accept that someone can't deal with the situation in a line at Disney.

I do feel the 'customer service' angle may ultimately be to allow some line bypass but with extreme limits. Meaning, imagine a system like 'you can get to ride these rides once during your visit without the line... but we're not going to let you use this as an advantage'. Ultimately I think that's the only way to balance access with impact.

Imagine if you could have a guest say "I can't do this line you have..." and if Disney could say "ok, I'll let you skip the line, but it will be your only ride for this visit...". Would those really limited accept that?

Personally I think that's agreeable.. but I know some say no because the types that would seek refuge in the patterns they could get with Disney, patterns significant to an autistic person, etc. Is that 'safe harbor' worth protecting, or sustainable? That's where I think the emotional dilemma is is..

 

[NotTheOne]

well... one they can do at their own pace - or pay for convenience...

the other... they claim they can't do at their own pace because there is no variation in how you wait in line.

I think comparing those two paid services isn't a good analogy for this situation... if you accept that someone can't deal with the situation in a line at Disney.

I do feel the 'customer service' angle may ultimately be to allow some line bypass but with extreme limits. Meaning, imagine a system like 'you can get to ride these rides once during your visit without the line... but we're not going to let you use this as an advantage'. Ultimately I think that's the only way to balance access with impact.

Imagine if you could have a guest say "I can't do this line you have..." and if Disney could say "ok, I'll let you skip the line, but it will be your only ride for this visit...". Would those really limited accept that?

Personally I think that's agreeable.. but I know some say no because the types that would seek refuge in the patterns they could get with Disney, patterns significant to an autistic person, etc. Is that 'safe harbor' worth protecting, or sustainable? That's where I think the emotional dilemma is is..

I agree the situations are different, to a degree, but my point was that people who say they can't handle a grocery store aren't demanding that the groceries stores allow them to skip the lines or wait off on the side until it's their turn to check out - they pay for something that is available for everyone to use. And they do so without screaming about it being illegal to deny accommodation.

But at Disney? No, give me what I want or you're discriminating against me, and it's illegal for you to suggest Genie+.

 

[Figgy1]

I agree the situations are different, to a degree, but my point was that people who say they can't handle a grocery store aren't demanding that the groceries stores allow them to skip the lines or wait off on the side until it's their turn to check out - they pay for something that is available for everyone to use. And they do so without screaming about it being illegal to deny accommodation.

But at Disney? No, give me what I want or you're discriminating against me, and it's illegal for you to suggest Genie+.

Some stores around here have quiet hours with lights dimmed, music down or off, extra cashiers on and it's advertised as for seniors and the disabled. Nobody is excluded but there are signs that is quiet hour and please speak quietly and please respect everybody. Quite a few stores also have curbside

 

[Chi84]

I agree the situations are different, to a degree, but my point was that people who say they can't handle a grocery store aren't demanding that the groceries stores allow them to skip the lines or wait off on the side until it's their turn to check out - they pay for something that is available for everyone to use. And they do so without screaming about it being illegal to deny accommodation.

But at Disney? No, give me what I want or you're discriminating against me, and it's illegal for you to suggest Genie+.

People become accustomed to, and learn to rely on, what they’re given. I think this is especially true for people who have disabilities that limit their lives in significant ways.

I doubt many people know or differentiate between voluntary accommodations given by businesses and those that are required by law. And ADA law is vague in many respects.

So if an accommodation is removed or modified, many people assume they were entitled to it by law.

In Disney’s case, I’m not sure how many people are aware of the issues with DAS overuse and therefore believe the company is removing the accommodation to force people into its paid system purely from greed.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I doubt many people know or differentiate between voluntary accommodations given by businesses and those that are required by law. And ADA law is vague in many respects.

Yes, the line is a little blurry. Obviously the ADA sets out that reasonable accommodations be made available.

I do think some of that vagueness is to help small businesses vs. major corporations like Disney. If you own a small retail store and only have one employee - it would not be reasonable to hire a second employee to assist disabled customers.

But for Disney, to not hire enough CM’s to conduct DAS interviews in a timely manner may be considered unreasonable.

Just examples - please don’t ask me to cite my interpretation - just my opinion!

 

[seabreezept813]

We typically travel in January, so it won't be for a while. Prices have risen that week though, so we may look into other weeks. Trying to work it with off-season days off on the school calendar. I'm hoping this settles out a bit by then.

We had to apply recently for one of my kids. We were 100% honest about our reason for applying and didn’t talk around it or just use general examples. She does not have the condition that everyone is saying is the one and only qualifier. My impression is that they are more open to various medical conditions for children as they have a harder time self advocating and regulating. Sharing because I think all people can do is be totally honest and go from there. We were ready to work with whatever outcome as we booked this a year ago and our kids have been anticipating it for months.

 

[Angel Ariel]

We had to apply recently for one of my kids. We were 100% honest about our reason for applying and didn’t talk around it or just use general examples. She does not have the condition that everyone is saying is the one and only qualifier. My impression is that they are more open to various medical conditions for children as they have a harder time self advocating and regulating. Sharing because I think all people can do is be totally honest and go from there. We were ready to work with whatever outcome as we booked this a year ago and our kids have been anticipating it for months.

Glad to hear it, thanks! I will need to organize my thoughts ahead of time - so much that happens is just not stuff I think about anymore because it's daily reality, so I forget about it when it matters (even in doctor's appts at times).

Like you, by the time we get to the point of having the interview we'll be locked in to going as we would have been planning for long enough we won't cancel at that point, so we will make the best of whatever happens.

Appreciate the reassurance!