John park hopper
Well-Known Member
Thanks as long as there is no problem getting a refund I'm good with that
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New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024
- Thread starter AEfx
- Start date
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
Don't know if it's just a transitional thing or if it will continue, but for now they have been giving refunds when people have been denied DAS and have cancelled.
I've been seeing that as well, and I think it's a fair thing to do given the scope of the changes.
Vacationeer
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
2 things stand out - transportation and lodging are already specifically addressed in ADA (where ride queues are not), separate from that is the ‘nature’ of a business and how accommodations can have a limit where they impact the fundamental nature of a business and it’s operations.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Oh there are certainly differences, but they are still comparable.
I’m wondering what cases have actually helped up where an accommodation had a limit on the impact of a business.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Loading wheelchairs takes time and negatively affects the efficiency of the bus system.
Since the bus comparison “is dumb” the same comparison can be made for attractions that handle wheelchairs - it usually takes extra time to load and reduced the efficiency of the attraction.
The point I’m trying to make is accommodating disabilities reduce efficiency - any business could argue that accommodating a disability has a negative impact on efficiency.
Again, it's about the degree of impact, and it's not just an efficiency factor.
DAS, as it was prior to the changes, was a nightmare for operations, primarily because there was no way to account for the number of people in the LLs. And when the LLs were backed up beyond the capacity that Disney planned for, it negatively affected DAS users, Genie+ users, and standby users, which in turned affected guest satisfaction across the board. This in turn had (or perhaps quantitatively did) affect guests' decision about whether or not to return, or if they did, less frequently.
No business has an obligation to provide accommodations to the degree that everyone else is miserable.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
To be clear I’m not saying DAS as it was didn’t need some fixes.
But adding 5 or even 10 minutes to a standby line does not make people miserable.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
Let's be cautious about putting overall guest satisfaction and decisions on whether or not to return solely - or even largely - on DAS' impact on LL.
Disney has been continually increasing prices while decreasing in-park entertainment, taking away park and hotel benefits, having more park maintenance issues (which affects LL annd standby when rides anre unexpectedly down), and being quite stingy in terms of adding meaningful attraction capacity. The downshift in guest satisfaction is far more complicated than there was just too much DAS use.
Disney has been continually increasing prices while decreasing in-park entertainment, taking away park and hotel benefits, having more park maintenance issues (which affects LL annd standby when rides anre unexpectedly down), and being quite stingy in terms of adding meaningful attraction capacity. The downshift in guest satisfaction is far more complicated than there was just too much DAS use.
Oh no way am I blaming it all on DAS - DAS or no DAS, Disney quality has declined over the last 15-20 years, no question. But the impact of even longer standby lines, which is heavily impacted by the volume of guests in LLs, is without question a contributor to guest dissatisfaction.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
why is that a problem caused by DAS - if DAS has to get a return time, then Disney knows how many guests (DAS times + LL) it has given out and the standby time should be updated accordingly.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
The issue with DAS is that Disney doesn't know when that person will come back to the LL, as it's able to be redeemed at any point over the rest of the day.
Because Disney can't limit how many DAS users choose a given ride, nor do they know when those guests will return.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
Genie + / LL was the beginning of the end for us, that’s when we went from feeling like Disney was an expensive, but fun, vacation to a vacation where we are nickel and dimed to death, it also seems to be the beginning of the exploding DAS use because people like us, who could formerly manage the parks with FP, had no choice but to rely solely on DAS if we had any hope of ever doing the major rides with long lines (without dropping a couple hundred dollars extra a day).
Disney got overly greedy and disabled people are paying the price, they under-invested in the parks, cut everywhere they could, and monetized the system that formerly made the parks manageable. I’m not surprised it’s blowing up in their face.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
To be fair they were just catching up with every other park with charging for skip the line pass.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Ah! So maybe put a time on it? Like an hour so they can plan accordingly.
No it doesn’t but DAS wasn’t doing that, according to Len it was eating up 70% of every rides capacity. That goes beyond the pale.
One of things that makes DAS work for the disabled guests who really need it is the flexibility to return any time after the return time. If there are disability-related issues to deal with during the wait time, putting a firm return time like Genie+ has means that for many, it will no longer be a viable accommodation.
Now, if Disney could make it possible to put a firm return time with the ability to extend it if needed, that might work for DAS users while at the same adding some predictability to when guests will return.
Vacationeer
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
An example the ADA references a few times to give an idea how ‘fundamentally alter’ and ‘nature of the business’ work together:
A business does not need to modify a policy if it would fundamentally alter the nature of the business’s goods or services.
What does fundamentally alter mean?
A fundamental alteration would be something that causes a change in the essential nature of your business. For example, a clothing store is not required to provide dressing assistance for a customer with a disability if this is not a service provided to other customers.
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This example is also given:
"Fundamental alteration"
A "fundamental alteration" is a change that is so significant that it alters the essential nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations offered. For example:
If a bookstore places special orders for customers, it should do so for all of its customers. A bookstore that does not place special orders for customers is not required to place special orders for customers with disabilities. This would be a “fundamental alteration” in the nature of the bookstore’s services.
A restaurant is not required to prepare special dishes for customers who have disabilities. This would be a “fundamental alteration” in the nature of the restaurant’s services. However, if it is easy to omit a sauce or ingredient from a dish that is listed on the menu, a customer can request that the item be omitted. This would not be considered a fundamental alteration.
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Selling tickets for attractions is the fundamental nature of WDW and DL parks. The business model centers around pricing for attraction access. Transportation is not the fundamental nature of WDW parks as a business, and thankfully was seen so important in the quality of everyday life that specific ADA guidelines were created.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I believe That’s 70% of LL capacity but the numbers are swirling in my head haha.