New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Wendy Pleakley]

A non-Das user has the access to the back of the standby line until park close (VQ doesn't count), so I would think a DAS user needs the same access to their standby line equivalent (DAS return times).

The re-ride thing is tricky. There are DAS users who say their kid is obsessed with something like Rise of the Resistance and the ability to ride it over and over within the confines of the DAS system is an expected accommodation for them.

Technically, anyone can re-ride the same attraction via stand-by but the two situations are not the same. This is where the question is raised, can DAS usage break the theme park system?

Very few people would ride Rise 5-6 times a day via standby. The design of theme parks encourages people to offset those big attraction waits with shows, parades, and other attractions. With DAS, it's much more appealing to do a big attraction 5-6 times via a virtual queue. You now have groups adding to those big queues more than the average visitor.

Suggest to take away the re-ride ability and people will say no because DAS users should be able to ride things more than once, same as everyone else. Such a limit isn't equal under the law.

That may be true, but again it breaks the theme park "system" and anything that makes the system "superior" leads to more abuse.

If DAS users were willing to compromise, accept a limit of one use on those headliner attractions, reflecting a typical theme park experience for most guests, would it be better for them overall?

Would that provide a reasonable accommodation that doesn't impact theme park operations as much as it apparently does now? Would that make cheating less appealing and reduce the need to cut down on DAS to the degree it seems Disney intends to?

Food for thought.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Attraction CMs are reportedly pushing back on in-person requests for return times either by claiming they know of no such policy or questioning the guest to verify the veracity of their request. Sounds like it's a bit of a rough start to this new era of DAS.

 

[Chi84]

Attraction CMs are reportedly pushing back on in-person requests for return times either by claiming they know of no such policy or questioning the guest to verify the veracity of their request. Sounds like it's a bit of a rough start to this new era of DAS.

It would be very helpful to know where the idea of RTQ as opposed to AQR originated. Lots of back and forth between the websites on who said what but no clarification at all.

 

[jjpet]

I think it also speaks to why Disney didn’t bother with solutions like that. They were going to face the same backlash regardless of what they did.

I’m not here to insult anyone’s disabilities and I’m sure many people are able to much more safely and comfortably enjoy the parks with DAS-like accommodations.

But there’s some serious entitlement on display when you will berate someone suggesting the idea of eliminating one of the aspects of DAS that invites abuse, while still maintaining all of the intended benefits.

Except there isn't widespread agreement about what the "intended benefits" are actually supposed to be... apart from how Disney is currently defining them. The reason why DAS was such an effective accommodation is the flexibility it provided to meet a WIDE variety of disability needs. This is also why it was subject to problematic *overuse* (or abuse) even from people with legitimate disabilities, b/c there were no restrictions on it's use for individuals that didn't need every aspect of it's flexibility. Eliminating one of the aspects of DAS is always going to eliminate some of the intended benefits for a specific subset of disabilities, that is just the reality of the design of it. Perhaps it would work to have different DAS passes of different design - to accommodate different needs (which I seems to be what Disney is attempting to do at the moment, though it is being implemented rather poorly.) That said, I have to wonder if a tiered DAS pass system would just lead to the same kind of disability-measuring contests that are going on in these forums currently.

 

[Splash4eva]

Very fair point... the almighty dollar is king. Can you imagine the sales they could get if DAS users weren't able to use a standby line, but could use a LL line while waiting for a DAS return time? Every DAS user would buy G+ (no one tell Bob).

& that my friend may have been the best solution to the problem! Absolutely within every rule and guideline as a regular guest is in. No law suit a DAS can win and now if they want to get on more rides purchase Genie+. Win win for all. Especially that they have cut down on party sizes pre books and when you can book your next ride.

 

[natatomic]

Attraction CMs are reportedly pushing back on in-person requests for return times either by claiming they know of no such policy or questioning the guest to verify the veracity of their request. Sounds like it's a bit of a rough start to this new era of DAS.

I wonder how these conversations are going.

I can imagine some guests going up to the CM, saying, "I need a RTQ." CM says, "Okay, could you explain your needs?" And then the guest proceeds to describe something that is supposed to be accommodated via AQR where the majority waits in standby, while the person with certain needs waits somewhere else to meet up at merge later. Guest is now upset, because they either don't WANT to do it that way, or they were just mistaken what their accommodations would be. They only want what was essentially DAS, even if they now have to go up to the CM to ask for it first. CMs know they're not supposed to pass out the RTQ except in the rarest of circumstances, so they do anything they can to even bring it up, but because they don't even mention it as an option, the guest are getting angry thinking that they're being gaslit or something.

This is ALL speculation, but I have a feeling it's CMs really playing it close to the chest knowing they're not supposed to give out many RTQs, and guests pushing hard because they don't want anyone to wait in standby, and they're not used to being told no when they ask for something at Disney.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

It would be very helpful to know where the idea of RTQ as opposed to AQR originated. Lots of back and forth between the websites on who said what but no clarification at all.

The issue for sure that this is not publicly documented anywhere; only AQR is. I'm not even sure it's internally documented anywhere. Reading between the lines, it sounds the DAS CMs were originally told to say something along the lines of "discuss your situation with the CM and they will try to accommodate you" and it snowballed into something that was considered to be official policy (despite there being no policy around it at all).

 

[C33Mom]

I wonder how these conversations are going.

I can imagine some guests going up to the CM, saying, "I need a RTQ." CM says, "Okay, could you explain your needs?" And then the guest proceeds to describe something that is supposed to be accommodated via AQR where the majority waits in standby, while the person with certain needs waits somewhere else to meet up at merge later. Guest is now upset, because they either don't WANT to do it that way, or they were just mistaken what their accommodations would be. They only want what was essentially DAS, even if they now have to go up to the CM to ask for it first. CMs know they're not supposed to pass out the RTQ except in the rarest of circumstances, so they do anything they can to even bring it up, but because they don't even mention it as an option, the guest are getting angry thinking that they're being gaslit or something.

This is ALL speculation, but I have a feeling it's CMs really playing it close to the chest knowing they're not supposed to give out many RTQs, and guests pushing hard because they don't want anyone to wait in standby, and they're not used to being told no when they ask for something at Disney.

Yeah, what @Disney Glimpses described sounds possibly like the system working as intended. There isn’t a “RTQ” return except in narrow circumstances, there’s a “join your party at the merge” (AQR) option for people who need it. I think people misunderstood what they were told during DAS denials or potentially misinterpreted what others reported on DAS forums and just assumed they could get a return time without anybody waiting in line.

 

[DoubleSwitchback]

Except there isn't widespread agreement about what the "intended benefits" are actually supposed to be... apart from how Disney is currently defining them. The reason why DAS was such an effective accommodation is the flexibility it provided to meet a WIDE variety of disability needs. This is also why it was subject to problematic *overuse* (or abuse) even from people with legitimate disabilities, b/c there were no restrictions on it's use for individuals that didn't need every aspect of it's flexibility. Eliminating one of the aspects of DAS is always going to eliminate some of the intended benefits for a specific subset of disabilities, that is just the reality of the design of it. Perhaps it would work to have different DAS passes of different design - to accommodate different needs (which I seems to be what Disney is attempting to do at the moment, though it is being implemented rather poorly.) That said, I have to wonder if a tiered DAS pass system would just lead to the same kind of disability-measuring contests that are going on in these forums currently.

I agree that "tiered", i.e. good-better-best DAS, would cause problems; but certainly they have more flexibility in the software without anything like the cost/hassle of new physical infrastructure. For example, anybody who doesn't have autism and doesn't "fixate" could be limited to one DAS per ride; people who are heat-sensitive could be granted DAS only for rides that have SB lines primarily outside; people without mobility issues need to be near the ride to join the DAS VQ (this one may require infrastructure updates); etc. People could still lie to get them all, sure, but now you're having to convince the CM you have 4 or 5 different conditions you don't have, instead of just one (or previously, just asking for it).

Yeah I’m sure it’s a lot of this. Just look at some of the posts in this thread encouraging CM abuse to get what you want.

I wouldn't call it "abuse" but certainly in the past many people in the past have been conditioned to push, push, push -- push for DAS, push for a larger group size, push for leniency if you break the very few rules around DAS (e.g. arriving too early) -- and it appears CMs always said yes without any resistance. It's going to take awhile until people see rules as applying to them, too, as fair.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Except there isn't widespread agreement about what the "intended benefits" are actually supposed to be... apart from how Disney is currently defining them. The reason why DAS was such an effective accommodation is the flexibility it provided to meet a WIDE variety of disability needs. This is also why it was subject to problematic *overuse* (or abuse) even from people with legitimate disabilities, b/c there were no restrictions on it's use for individuals that didn't need every aspect of it's flexibility. Eliminating one of the aspects of DAS is always going to eliminate some of the intended benefits for a specific subset of disabilities, that is just the reality of the design of it. Perhaps it would work to have different DAS passes of different design - to accommodate different needs (which I seems to be what Disney is attempting to do at the moment, though it is being implemented rather poorly.) That said, I have to wonder if a tiered DAS pass system would just lead to the same kind of disability-measuring contests that are going on in these forums currently.

The intended benefit is to be able to experience attractions that you can’t wait in line for due to a disability.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Except there isn't widespread agreement about what the "intended benefits" are actually supposed to be... apart from how Disney is currently defining them. The reason why DAS was such an effective accommodation is the flexibility it provided to meet a WIDE variety of disability needs. This is also why it was subject to problematic *overuse* (or abuse) even from people with legitimate disabilities, b/c there were no restrictions on it's use for individuals that didn't need every aspect of it's flexibility. Eliminating one of the aspects of DAS is always going to eliminate some of the intended benefits for a specific subset of disabilities, that is just the reality of the design of it. Perhaps it would work to have different DAS passes of different design - to accommodate different needs (which I seems to be what Disney is attempting to do at the moment, though it is being implemented rather poorly.) That said, I have to wonder if a tiered DAS pass system would just lead to the same kind of disability-measuring contests that are going on in these forums currently.

They basically already did this when they had the Guest Assistance Card (GAC), the predecessor to DAS. Which was abused to the point of needing DAS instead of it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Yeah, what @Disney Glimpses described sounds possibly like the system working as intended. There isn’t a “RTQ” return except in narrow circumstances, there’s a “join your party at the merge” (AQR) option for people who need it. I think people misunderstood what they were told during DAS denials or potentially misinterpreted what others reported on DAS forums and just assumed they could get a return time without anybody waiting in line.

RTQ does exist. It's what happens, for ex, when a wheelchair user wants to experience an attraction whose queue isn't accessible (not as much of an issue at WDW, but significantly more of an issue at DLR). A digital return time based on the standby wait is given, and a person is told where to return to in order to redeem it. It is a separate system from DAS and AQR.

It's possible that guests may be misunderstanding the CMs on the DAS call , but it's also possible that CMs on the DAS call didn't understand this was a separate thing and have been referring to AQR as RTQ and thus causing the confusion for guests.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Are we still going with the idea that Disney is intentionally creating confusion for reasons?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The percentage of guests who ride something with an hour+ wait more than twice per day in the standby line has to be approaching zero

depends on the attraction - several rides probably see a decent number of re rides. Slinky dog, mania, rise, test track, flight of passage all come to mind

 

[Angel Ariel]

Are we still going with the idea that Disney is intentionally creating confusion for reasons?

I don't think it's intentional, but I do think it's possible the accessibility team has unintentionally caused confusion here

 

[RamblinWreck]

depends on the attraction - several rides probably see a decent number of re rides. Slinky dog, mania, rise, test track, flight of passage all come to mind

What percentage of park guests are waiting in standby for Slinky Dog 3+ times in a day?

It has to be less than 1%

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

What percentage of park guests are waiting in standby for Slinky Dog 3+ times in a day?

It has to be less than 1%

The percentage of park guests with kids who are obsessed with slinky dog! Haha

 

[Chi84]

RTQ does exist. It's what happens, for ex, when a wheelchair user wants to experience an attraction whose queue isn't accessible (not as much of an issue at WDW, but significantly more of an issue at DLR). A digital return time based on the standby wait is given, and a person is told where to return to in order to redeem it. It is a separate system from DAS and AQR.

It's possible that guests may be misunderstanding the CMs on the DAS call , but it's also possible that CMs on the DAS call didn't understand this was a separate thing and have been referring to AQR as RTQ and thus causing the confusion for guests.

That’s what is being said on another site too and it makes sense.

 

[Disstevefan1]

DAS and riding the same attraction three times in the same day should never be in the same discussion, unless it’s, “How to use DAS to ride the same attraction three times in one day”

I feel hugely successful if I can ride a handful of attractions once in a day.

 

[C33Mom]

RTQ does exist. It's what happens, for ex, when a wheelchair user wants to experience an attraction whose queue isn't accessible (not as much of an issue at WDW, but significantly more of an issue at DLR). A digital return time based on the standby wait is given, and a person is told where to return to in order to redeem it. It is a separate system from DAS and AQR.

It's possible that guests may be misunderstanding the CMs on the DAS call , but it's also possible that CMs on the DAS call didn't understand this was a separate thing and have been referring to AQR as RTQ and thus causing the confusion for guests.

Yes, you’re right. I meant to say there isn’t RTQ available as a general disability option for those who were not given DAS and then show up at an attraction but don’t want to have any members of their party wait in lines (wheelchair users and their party have had RTQ for years for rides they physically can’t access via standard line for years, as you pointed out).

I suspect people have been told there was an option to return to the queue if they had trouble/emergencies in line and they just assumed (with perhaps an additional assist from disability groups already familiar with wheelchair RTQ) it meant they were going to be given return times instead of literally returning to the main queue to meet their group.