New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Splash4eva]

I agree.

Over a year ago I pointed out on another forum that if they really thought DAS abuse was rising that the first logical thing would be to install tapstiles at all ride entrances, LL and Standby, and prevent DAS users from riding other rides while they wait for their DAS reservation. It would be a good way to disincentivize the cheating while maintaining the intended benefit.


The vitriol I was met with was disturbing.

What is preventing people going on a ride thats basically a 15-20 min wait max going to do and prove?

 

[DoubleSwitchback]

What is preventing people going on a ride thats basically a 15-20 min wait max going to do and prove?

• People doing that several times per day means they're getting a substantially better experience
• It incentivizes cheating/faking/abuse
• If DAS is materially better than standby, DAS is not an accommodation but a perk. A lot of the arguments around DAS, eligibility for DAS, etc. focus on public accommodation law

 

[DoubleSwitchback]

The remote selection ability was intentional feature to address those who become fixated on certain subjects.

Can you expand on this? "Fixated on certain subjects" makes me think autistic visitors insisting on riding the same ride over and over, but that's the last group that would need remote selection so clearly I'm misunderstanding!

 

[Splash4eva]

• People doing that several times per day means they're getting a substantially better experience
• It incentivizes cheating/faking/abuse
• If DAS is materially better than standby, DAS is not an accommodation but a perk. A lot of the arguments around DAS, eligibility for DAS, etc. focus on public accommodation law

Cheaters will
Cheat sadly. So unfortunately any system brought forward they will find a way

Telling people with legit disabilities they have a substantial advantage because they can go on some short stand by line while in a “vq” is quite a stretch

Calling this is a perk? See above.

Now with that being said changes needed to be made i agree but telling people they cant do rides in between is not one of them
Imo…

 

[DoubleSwitchback]

Repeatedly telling people that they shouldn't discuss the inherent advantages of the DAS system doesn't seem to be working. People are going to keep pointing it out; it's relevant to how DAS is being used and how it's being perceived.

 

[Purduevian]

Cheaters will
Cheat sadly. So unfortunately any system brought forward they will find a way

Telling people with legit disabilities they have a substantial advantage because they can go on some short stand by line while in a “vq” is quite a stretch

Calling this is a perk? See above.

From a purely opportunity cost perspective, DAS is a huge advantage over Standby for long waits. I almost never ride ILLs (that are not on VQ) anymore because I refuse to pay for them and don't want to be stuck in a cattle pen that long, but if I had DAS I would ride them every time because why not?

Whether or not this advantage should be open or closed due to the fact that in general (not always) people that qualify for DAS are already at a disadvantage in theme park touring is a valid discussion.

 

[RamblinWreck]

What is preventing people going on a ride thats basically a 15-20 min wait max going to do and prove?

It doesn’t prove anything.

It provides the intended benefit, fully, while disincentivizing cheating.

This is stating the obvious, but cheaters can wait in line for 2 headliners at the same time. Put in my DAS for slinky dog while I’m in line for tower of terror.

 

[DoubleSwitchback]

Whether or not this advantage should be open or closed due to the fact that in general (not always) people that qualify for DAS are already at a disadvantage in theme park touring is a valid discussion.

This is where it gets very tricky, though -- if the idea is that the disabled should have a better experience because we have difficult lives otherwise, it moves it out of the realm of public accommodation and makes it more like pixie dust that Disney has no obligation to provide. This again goes back to one of my earlier posts about why the community is divided; some think the best way to keep DAS alive and well for the long term is to support it being scoped to what is necessary under public accommodation law, while others proudly post "DAS touring plans" that have them riding standby on one headliner while being in a DAS VQ for the other.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Cheaters will
Cheat sadly. So unfortunately any system brought forward they will find a way

Telling people with legit disabilities they have a substantial advantage because they can go on some short stand by line while in a “vq” is quite a stretch

Calling this is a perk? See above.

Now with that being said changes needed to be made i agree but telling people they cant do rides in between is not one of them
Imo…

Would you have considered it preferable to the changes that were actually implemented?

 

[Splash4eva]

From a purely opportunity cost perspective, DAS is a huge advantage over Standby for long waits. I almost never ride ILLs (that are not on VQ) anymore because I refuse to pay for them and don't want to be stuck in a cattle pen that long, but if I had DAS I would ride them every time because why not?

Whether or not this advantage should be open or closed due to the fact that in general (not always) people that qualify for DAS are already at a disadvantage in theme park touring is a valid discussion.

I have DAS and i get what people say but there are reasons why we need it…
Im also on record stating re rides are a big issue which is one that needs to be figured out and even have said they need to be limited and possibly to max 2 per day at various times. I get its probably not “legal” but im also aware of the issues it causes.

From someone who uses it. I think the changes they are making are going in right direction sans the part of cutting access off to people who need it with no real solution for them…

 

[Splash4eva]

Would you have considered it preferable to the changes that were actually implemented?

Ive been on record stating the changed that are being made are good ones and more than fair. Ive gone further and stated re rides need to be addressed as well… im under no illusion as a DAS user and been fair in my suggesstions. Issue is eliminating so many who need it.

 

[Splash4eva]

It doesn’t prove anything.

It provides the intended benefit, fully, while disincentivizing cheating.

This is stating the obvious, but cheaters can wait in line for 2 headliners at the same time. Put in my DAS for slinky dog while I’m in line for tower of terror.

Yes again you are highlighting what cheaters can do. If Disney wants to curb that. Simply tell people w DAS they cant go in a line with a longer than x wait. Im cool with that as well.

 

[RamblinWreck]

I have DAS and i get what people say but there are reasons why we need it…
Im also on record stating re rides are a big issue which is one that needs to be figured out and even have said they need to be limited and possibly to max 2 per day at various times. I get its probably not “legal” but im also aware of the issues it causes.

From someone who uses it. I think the changes they are making are going in right direction sans the part of cutting access off to people who need it with no real solution for them…

I doubt they’d have any legal issues with the re-rides

The percentage of guests who ride something with an hour+ wait more than twice per day in the standby line has to be approaching zero.

But I also doubt it’s a big issue with DAS. Being limited to using DAS twice per day or even once per day per ride is hardly going to slow any power user down.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Yes again you are highlighting what cheaters can do. If Disney wants to curb that. Simply tell people w DAS they cant go in a line with a longer than x wait. Im cool with that as well.

That’d be a good way to do it probably.

You’d still need to tap in for every single ride in order to implement it.

But it would help push more people to the less busy rides which is always good.

 

[natatomic]

This is where it gets very tricky, though -- if the idea is that the disabled should have a better experience because we have difficult lives otherwise, it moves it out of the realm of public accommodation and makes it more like pixie dust that Disney has no obligation to provide. This again goes back to one of my earlier posts about why the community is divided; some think the best way to keep DAS alive and well for the long term is to support it being scoped to what is necessary under public accommodation law, while others proudly post "DAS touring plans" that have them riding standby on one headliner while being in a DAS VQ for the other.

It also runs the risk of creating the “hardship Olympics.” Even people without disabilities have hardships that we can’t always see - maybe someone’s child died, maybe a family lost their mom and dad is just trying to cheer the kids up, maybe it’s a foster family of some severely traumatized children.

Plenty of people, one could argue, deserve some pixie dust; but only some hardships are/can be accommodated, I suppose.

 

[Splash4eva]

That’d be a good way to do it probably.

You’d still need to tap in for every single ride in order to implement it.

But it would help push more people to the less busy rides which is always good.

Which shouldn't be an issue forcing people to tap in at each ride…

 

[Splash4eva]

I doubt they’d have any legal issues with the re-rides

The percentage of guests who ride something with an hour+ wait more than twice per day in the standby line has to be approaching zero.

But I also doubt it’s a big issue with DAS. Being limited to using DAS twice per day or even once per day per ride is hardly going to slow any power user down.

To i guess “prove” peoples point. I have DAS and do buy Genie because rarely are there minimal wait times where you can just walk on. You can easily use both systems and be able to avoid any real down times and still have a nice pleasant “relaxing” day.

 

[Purduevian]

This is where it gets very tricky, though -- if the idea is that the disabled should have a better experience because we have difficult lives otherwise, it moves it out of the realm of public accommodation and makes it more like pixie dust that Disney has no obligation to provide. This again goes back to one of my earlier posts about why the community is divided; some think the best way to keep DAS alive and well for the long term is to support it being scoped to what is necessary under public accommodation law, while others proudly post "DAS touring plans" that have them riding standby on one headliner while being in a DAS VQ for the other.

It is very tricky; you also have to wonder if consideration also needs to be about the physical and mental ability to tour the parks like a non-DAS user (ability to jump from line to line).

I have DAS and i get what people say but there are reasons why we need it…
Im also on record stating re rides are a big issue which is one that needs to be figured out and even have said they need to be limited and possibly to max 2 per day at various times. I get its probably not “legal” but im also aware of the issues it causes.

From someone who uses it. I think the changes they are making are going in right direction sans the part of cutting access off to people who need it with no real solution for them…

I doubt they’d have any legal issues with the re-rides

I think limiting re-rides could get rather tricky... my understanding is the ADA is mostly about comparable access to things (like a ramp to a main entrance).

A non-Das user has the access to the back of the standby line until park close (VQ doesn't count), so I would think a DAS user needs the same access to their standby line equivalent (DAS return times).

To i guess “prove” peoples point. I have DAS and do buy Genie because rarely are there minimal wait times where you can just walk on. You can easily use both systems and be able to avoid any real down times and still have a nice pleasant “relaxing” day.

This is actually IMHO one of the easiest "fixes" to the current DAS rules. Not allowing someone to tap into/redeem a LL while holding a DAS return time. I've argued for it many times before, but the summary of why I feel this way:

• A non-DAS user is not able to tap into/redeem a LL while waiting in a standby line, why should a DAS user?
• A DAS user can still buy and utilize G+ and ILL, just in a manner that is more similar to a non-DAS user
• This would in theory open up more LL slots and bring DAS users closer to non-DAS user touring.
• I have no problems with DAS users utilizing underused capacity while waiting for their return time (food, merch, shows, and walk on rides)
• I think there the practicality of everyone tapping into every standby line is technically possible, but would be a huge infrastructure change and thus not really worth it for Disney to implement
• People that tour like Splash are not breaking the rules/abusing the system and I don't blame them for touring that way (I would if I needed DAS). I think this is a Disney rule fault and Disney should close it because it further exacerbates the potential for DAS/non-DAS disparity.

 

[Splash4eva]

It is very tricky; you also have to wonder if consideration also needs to be about the physical and mental ability to tour the parks like a non-DAS user (ability to jump from line to line).




I think limiting re-rides could get rather tricky... my understanding is the ADA is mostly about comparable access to things (like a ramp to a main entrance).

A non-Das user has the access to the back of the standby line until park close (VQ doesn't count), so I would think a DAS user needs the same access to their standby line equivalent (DAS return times).

This is actually IMHO one of the easiest "fixes" to the current DAS rules. Not allowing someone to tap into/redeem a LL while holding a DAS return time. I've argued for it many times before, but the summary of why I feel this way:

• A non-DAS user is not able to tap into/redeem a LL while waiting in a standby line, why should a DAS user?
• A DAS user can still buy and utilize G+ and ILL, just in a manner that is more similar to a non-DAS user
• This would in theory open up more LL slots and bring DAS users closer to non-DAS user touring.
• I have no problems with DAS users utilizing underused capacity while waiting for their return time (food, merch, shows, and walk on rides)
• I think there the practicality of everyone tapping into every standby line is technically possible, but would be a huge infrastructure change and thus not really worth it for Disney to implement
• People that tour like Splash are not breaking the rules/abusing the system and I don't blame them for touring that way (I would if I needed DAS). I think this is a Disney rule fault and Disney should close it because it further exacerbates the potential for DAS/non-DAS disparity.

Here is the issue tho. A DAS user who wants to purchase Genie as well to help with their trip is never going to purchase it anymore under those “rules” & no way is Disney is risking people willing to pay and losing them. Now with that being said i dont know how many people do both like i do…

 

[Purduevian]

Here is the issue tho. A DAS user who wants to purchase Genie as well to help with their trip is never going to purchase it anymore under those “rules” & no way is Disney is risking people willing to pay and losing them. Now with that being said i dont know how many people do both like i do…

Very fair point... the almighty dollar is king. Can you imagine the sales they could get if DAS users weren't able to use a standby line, but could use a LL line while waiting for a DAS return time? Every DAS user would buy G+ (no one tell Bob).