New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[pigglewiggle]

I don’t know if Disney would ever go this route, but - in theory - I wonder if they could just get rid of DAS all together and then say, “if you have trouble waiting in line, Genie+ is available to purchase, which gives you access to our lightning lane.”
I’m not saying I agree with it, this is just a hypothetical. But everyone would have the same chance to access the LL. Wheelchairs would still go to whichever queue is accessible. Per the ADA, would that qualify as “reasonable?”

If we don't want to pay for it, we can just wait in line.
If those who qualify for DAS can't pay for it, they can't just wait in line.

 

[flynnibus]

As a practical matter, courts are not going to add to a vague law by inserting their own elements. A law can be unconstitutionally vague, but here the ADA is implemented through the DOJ regulations.

They aren't adding - The need for the inclusion in this venue is already spelled out in the law. What is missing is any specific guidance for this use case. The ADA guidelines don't really cover queuing period. The courts aren't going to NOT pass judgement in this scenario simply because the DOJ guidelines don't have specific inclusions or exclusions defined for this use case. You're not going to be able to argue the ADA doesn't apply simply because the scenario isn't covered by the Accessibility Guidelines - judge will have to decide what is allowable or not because it hasn't be answered before. And due to the lack of presedent, it weakens any argument that 'exceptions don't exist for scenario X in the guidelines' when Scenario X hasn't been covered in the guidelines period.

So it's not a matter of 'adding' to the law - but a matter of interpreting what the existing ADA law means in this type of application. The DOJ Acccessibility Guidelines are not the end-all for this use case as it's not even addressed.

 

[natatomic]

No, being required to pay for accommodations is, generally speaking, not acceptable.

This may be a dumb question, but why does it cost money to rent wheelchairs and scooters? (not trying to be argumentative - genuinely asking)

 

[Brian]

This may be a dumb question, but why does it cost money to rent wheelchairs and scooters? (not trying to be argumentative - genuinely asking)

It's not a dumb question. Places of public accommodation are only required to make their facilities accessible to those with disabilities. They are not required to provide mobility aids, as those are generally regarded as BYO. Those that do provide them do so as a courtesy.

 

[Happyday]

It's not a dumb question. Places of public accommodation are only required to make their facilities accessible to those with disabilities. They are not required to provide mobility aids, as those are generally regarded as BYO. Those that do provide them do so as a courtesy.

Exactly because most people who need them have them on a daily basis. The difference is the parks are large and some people get by in their daily routines but this kind of venue adds a element of difficulty.

 

[wdisney9000]

so it's not just a matter of courtesy it's material impact to the product being provided.

I don't think the current leadership is overly concerned with impact to any product being provided as much as they're concerned about profit loss.

This new DAS system will take effect and there will most likely not be any significant decrease in LL wait times. Increase in LL profits? Yes. And that's totally fine. Disney is after all a business. But they've painted themselves into a corner in regards to wait times and guest satisfaction and they'll keep squeezing blood from a stone and find another aspect to point the finger at (and then monetize) instead of taking real action to improve the impact of product being provided.

Please know I was just replying to the concept of that one part of your post, not arguing against you in any way.

 

[rle4lunch]

They just figured out that it's cheaper to rent an electric stroller (aka scooter) than buying genie+.

Seriously though, this may help with the rampant excess of scooters in the parks. This goes for my mother in law and her excuse to use one as well.

 

[Happyday]

They just figured out that it's cheaper to rent an electric stroller (aka scooter) than buying genie+.

Seriously though, this may help with the rampant excess of scooters in the parks. This goes for my mother in law and her excuse to use one as well.

It may however some people that use scooters are able to do many daily routines however long distances in the heat are difficult. I am thinking of those with COPD, some with asthma (not all). This is not an excuse just an observation, that being said unfortunately I don't think the scooter usage will be impacted by much .

 

[flynnibus]

I don’t know if Disney would ever go this route, but - in theory - I wonder if they could just get rid of DAS all together and then say, “if you have trouble waiting in line, Genie+ is available to purchase, which gives you access to our lightning lane.”

Nope - can't meet your accessibility requirements by forcing people to pay for it. Hard stop there.

 

[dothebrdwalk]

Nope - can't meet your accessibility requirements by forcing people to pay for it. Hard stop there.

This^^

A Class action lawsuit would come quicker than you could say "Lightning Lane"

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Considering Genie+ often sells out, people are buying it - a lot.

It rarely “sells out” in Orlando

Define “a lot”

 

[nickys]

Holy cow did I attack you or something ?

It was just a simple question.

I was relaying some information. And I did say for some applicants but thought maybe you had missed it - that wasn’t meant to be snarky. But rider swap really isn’t going to work for a group of 2 so I assume they’ll offer something different.

 

[Tha Realest]

Considering Genie+ often sells out, people are buying it - a lot.

Often? Someone here did the math and it only sold out 5% of the days since they rolled it out.

 

[Chi84]

They aren't adding - The need for the inclusion in this venue is already spelled out in the law. What is missing is any specific guidance for this use case. The ADA guidelines don't really cover queuing period. The courts aren't going to NOT pass judgement in this scenario simply because the DOJ guidelines don't have specific inclusions or exclusions defined for this use case. You're not going to be able to argue the ADA doesn't apply simply because the scenario isn't covered by the Accessibility Guidelines - judge will have to decide what is allowable or not because it hasn't be answered before. And due to the lack of presedent, it weakens any argument that 'exceptions don't exist for scenario X in the guidelines' when Scenario X hasn't been covered in the guidelines period.

So it's not a matter of 'adding' to the law - but a matter of interpreting what the existing ADA law means in this type of application. The DOJ Acccessibility Guidelines are not the end-all for this use case as it's not even addressed.

The courts will rule on the question of whether the ADA has been violated. Take a look at the arguments that were made by the parties in A.L. v. Walt Disney World and in the complaint in the Six Flags litigation. The authority cited there is what the courts are considering as precedent.

I don't think we disagree as much as you think. I didn't say the DOJ regulations are the end of the story and clearly the matter can be raised. But parties are going to rely heavily on those regulations in arguing what type of accommodations are reasonable, as well as whether a request for documentation would violate the ADA. That's what happens when there is no direct precedent. The courts just don't go off on their own.

 

[SamusAranX]

Every theme park in the world has lines. Long lines. Thatvis not just a Disney issue.

Disney by far has the longest lines of any park I visited. When even dang Busch Gardens is increasing capacity and moves their lines more smoothly, you know you have a problem

 

[Angel Ariel]

At the same time it shouldn't be a the expense of other guests.

And on the flip side - making sure non-disabled guests have a good experience also shouldn't come at the expense of disabled guests.

It's a balance. And one that's difficult to strike and maintain, I wholeheartedly acknowledge. But (in general across multiple platforms), I've seen enough people who lack concern re: negative impact to disabled guests that it is frustrating and exhausting. (Not saying this is you - again, general comment).

 

[Angel Ariel]

Losing DAS may not necessarily drop the number of people in a park per day, but it does drop the number of people in queues (which as I said with DAS is not limited to tickets sold in a day).

If rider switch is being used as one of the major accommodations in place of DAS as the Disneyland site indicates, then this issue still exists. Because the people waiting while the 1 person rides can stilll go ride an attraction with a shorter line and then go back and ride the first attraction with a LL.

 

[Trauma]

If rider switch is being used as one of the major accommodations in place of DAS as the Disneyland site indicates, then this issue still exists. Because the people waiting while the 1 person rides can stilll go ride an attraction with a shorter line and then go back and ride the first attraction with a LL.

I’m clueless it’s been a long couple days, but I assumed it was something like most of your group is in line, when they reach the front you join them?

So if you left to ride another ride and they reach the front your outa luck?

Keep in mind I have no idea what I’m talking about so if someone else could step in and clarify that would be great.

 

[DisneyCane]

If rider switch is being used as one of the major accommodations in place of DAS as the Disneyland site indicates, then this issue still exists. Because the people waiting while the 1 person rides can stilll go ride an attraction with a shorter line and then go back and ride the first attraction with a LL.

I guess anybody using rider swap can do that now. Isn't rider swap available for anybody to use if they want to?

 

[SingleRider]

I wonder of part of the reason Guardians and TRON are still using virtual queues is because of the DAS situation. With those rides' setup they can prohibit DAS users from riding more than twice (with a virtual queue and ILL), same as anyone without DAS.