News New Crêperie restaurant coming to Epcot's France Pavilion as part of Ratatouille expansion

[Sir_Cliff]

Literally no one is saying that.

We're saying some of you are taking it too far.

You're making a mountain out of a detail on a roof which will not function. The whole thing is a facade - and a small one at that. As long as it blends in and looks like it could be in France and not Miami Beach, they did just fine.

I'm sure we could pick out other things that are not accurate. How many of the CM's working in WS would wear those costumes at home? How much of the food is truly authentic?

It's a representation at a theme park. It's not art. It's not a museum.

Be snobby about museums, or about opera. Being snobby about a theme park is like being snobby about fast food chains.

I dare say architects are not the target audience to impress here.

I wish I had nothing more important to worry about in life than minute details on a yet-to-be created facade's historical and architectural accuracy at Disney World.

Enjoy it, or don't.

Well, this is a discussion board for fans of a thing. That's usually precisely the forum for people to obsess over little details that the public at large would never consciously register. Whatever the topic, that's what fan forums are like.

I understand that some people find discussion of theming uninteresting, ridiculous, or over-the-top, but you could say that about forums on an infinity of topics online. Why, though, would you go and have a go at people for caring more about a thing than you do on a board set up for people who care deeply about something to discuss it?

 

[Daannzzz]

When I first Glanced at the artwork I though it was more something for Frontierland. Looking at it closer I can see the attempt to make it look "french".

 

[rkleinlein]

You're making a mountain out of a detail on a roof which will not function. The whole thing is a facade - and a small one at that. As long as it blends in and looks like it could be in France and not Miami Beach, they did just fine.

That's just it: it doesn't look like it could be in France. Or even in the France pavilion at Epcot. It doesn't blend in. This would look more at home in Miami Beach--though just as architecturally ridiculous--or in any tacky "town center" style retail/entertainment complex in any suburb.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Ugly is subjective. Looking as though it belongs in France can also be a bit subjective, not to mention how different France looks from city to city, or even Paris from arrondissement to arrondissement.

For me, and some others I think, the issue is the haphazard way in which the elements (windows, roofs, doors, the overall size and shape of the "buildings", choice of materials and detailing) have been composed, does not reflect real world construction or conditions, and does not really reflect the conditions of the environment in which they are attempting to recreate.

For hyperbole's sake, it would be akin to using a metal, exterior entry door and using it inside for a closet. Would everyone notice? Surely not. But most everyone would think something is odd about that really heavy closet door, even if they can't put their finger on exactly why.

Thanks, ok im going to venture another question, and believe me im scared to do so.
How do you get choice of materials and construction from a drawing??

 

[rkleinlein]

When I first Glanced at the artwork I though it was more something for Frontierland. Looking at it closer I can see the attempt to make it look "french".

Yes I thought something similar on first glance but I thought it looked more like Main Street.

 

[Missing20K]

Thanks, ok im going to venture another question, and believe me im scared to do so.
How do you get choice of materials and construction from a drawing??

The short answer is years of experience creating architectural renderings and construction drawings and then seeing those renderings and drawings become real life buildings.

Essentially, there are only so many ways to "skin a cat", so by looking for details, someone with an experienced eye can notice whether those details "make sense" and could actually be, or have actually been, constructed before. Further, whether that choice of construction enhances or detracts from the story attempting to be told (in the realm of themed entertainment).

I wouldn't expect everyone who goes to the parks to know what a parapet, or mansard roof, or party walls, or any of the other items we've been discussing, actually are. Just as many of us know little, if anything, of the greater engineering involved in many of the rides, we just see the finished product and either enjoy it, or don't. But all of those details of engineering are incredibly important, and all add to the experience of the attraction, for better or worse.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

When I first Glanced at the artwork I though it was more something for Frontierland. Looking at it closer I can see the attempt to make it look "french".

I'd say its as French as the new WDW Resort is "Riviera".

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Which architectural elements are used and how they are composed is exactly how a building looks like it belongs in France or Miami Beach.


This is something that everyone criticizing this design is likely aware of and understands the design decisions involved. You just keep tossing things out, not knowing how they are actually part of a design, hoping to stumble into a “gotcha.”


And this right here is the issue. You don’t respect themed entertainment. You don’t know the role of different elements, so they must not be of consequence. You do not think themed entertainment is actual design or storytelling, so it must not be design or storytelling.

Are we talking about me, or the storefront? Don't make presumptions about me.

There is a middle ground between no interest and no respect for themed entertainment, and obsessing over it.

I understand that some people find discussion of theming uninteresting, ridiculous, or over-the-top, but you could say that about forums on an infinity of topics online. Why, though, would you go and have a go at people for caring more about a thing than you do on a board set up for people who care deeply about something to discuss it?

Clearly we don't find it uninteresting or ridiculous - until you go to a certain level of picayune.

I am also a huge Star Wars fan since the first movie came out. The "superfans" are annoying and more often than not just ruin things.

These things are meant for entertainment, not for dissection. It's. Not. A. Museum. It's not an exact replica.

The pointless negativity is abrasive.

I came to this thread to see what the new thing in France was, because I go to WDW fairly regularly and enjoy it immensely. My enjoyment will not change based on anything you're saying about this storefront, and the criticisms feel absurd.

The last thing I'm going to do is criticize the thing for not looking perfectly authentic. Methinks you guys are missing the point if that's your takeaway.

 

[Missing20K]

Are we talking about me, or the storefront? Don't make presumptions about me.

There is a middle ground between no interest and no respect for themed entertainment, and obsessing over it.

He doesn't have to make presumptions, you've made your position as clear as mud.

There is a thing called "artistic license."

It's a representation at a theme park. It's not art. It's not a museum.

They are allowed to use artistic license, but it's not art? I personally don't see the dichotomy. I could understand the argument that when properly executed, themed environments rise to the level of art, and when poorly executed they do not. But I don't understand the argument that themed environments are just not art, period.

Museums are not the only place in which to find art in the world.

Clearly we don't find it uninteresting or ridiculous - until you go to a certain level of picayune.

I am also a huge Star Wars fan since the first movie came out. The "superfans" are annoying and more often than not just ruin things.

These things are meant for entertainment, not for dissection. It's. Not. A. Museum. It's not an exact replica.

The pointless negativity is abrasive.

I came to this thread to see what the new thing in France was, because I go to WDW fairly regularly and enjoy it immensely. My enjoyment will not change based on anything you're saying about this storefront, and the criticisms feel absurd.

The last thing I'm going to do is criticize the thing for not looking perfectly authentic. Methinks you guys are missing the point if that's your takeaway.

I sincerely hope your enjoyment of the parks would not change based on anything anyone says on this forum anyway. We are merely discussing our opinions of the concept art. If they still make a crepe relatively close to the ones my wife and I had walking the streets of Paris, I'll still probably stop in for one. And while waiting in line, I will point out to my wife all of the incongruities with the design. As I'm sure you will tell whoever you are with about how there are folks on this forum who are absolutely insane about how this building is "incorrect."

No one is asking for exact replicas. Or for it to be perfectly authentic, which quite obviously is impossible when creating a themed environment. Pretty sure no one wants to deal with the street gangs of Paris, or the Boko Harem of Africa, or the poor sanitation and water of Morocco.

But WS Morocco would look pretty strange if the Minaret was just a plain jane tower of concrete. Africa at AK would not convey the same story had it been clean and modern and lacked the "dirt" and "grit" that's displayed so well. Or, in this case, a storefront in a "Parisian" neighborhood that has inconsistencies in both aesthetics and constructability, which liken it more to a suburban, American, planned-community "town center" than an Old-World French street corner.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

As I'm sure you will tell whoever you are with about how there are folks on this forum who are absolutely insane about how this building is "incorrect."

Trust me, I will not be thinking about you or this window when I’m at WDW.

You can enjoy your Magical Misery Tour pointing out everything “wrong” with what others (who have no obligation to meet your arbitrary standards) have created. That must be such fun for your traveling party. I’ve always wanted to visit with the Debbie Downer of Disney.

Go become an Imagineer, then an Imagineer’s boss, and then your arguments will carry some weight and merit serious consideration.

I own a business. My customers get to tell me whether they like it or not. They get to ask me to order something for them. They do not get to tell me their “corrections” of my aesthetic choices.

And that’s enough of this. There is no enjoyment in this discussion.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Clearly we don't find it uninteresting or ridiculous - until you go to a certain level of picayune.

I am also a huge Star Wars fan since the first movie came out. The "superfans" are annoying and more often than not just ruin things.

These things are meant for entertainment, not for dissection. It's. Not. A. Museum. It's not an exact replica.

The pointless negativity is abrasive.

I came to this thread to see what the new thing in France was, because I go to WDW fairly regularly and enjoy it immensely. My enjoyment will not change based on anything you're saying about this storefront, and the criticisms feel absurd.

The last thing I'm going to do is criticize the thing for not looking perfectly authentic. Methinks you guys are missing the point if that's your takeaway.

Honestly, I also get left behind by a lot of the discussion on here and often don't agree with what seems to be the praviling wisdom. All I was trying to say, though, is that I think there's a difference between saying something looks fine to you and telling everyone else they are being ridiculous by taking themed design so seriously in a theme park forum. Particularly when we're talking about Disney, who have built so much of their reputation on attention to detail in themed design. It is indeed like going onto a Star Wars forum and telling people to stop thinking so much about Star Wars.

On this issue, I'm personally not losing any sleep about the crêperie but the building did just look a bit "off" to me from the first time I saw the concept art. So, I was interested to see here I wasn't the only one who had that reaction. I'm not sure entirely what it is, but the scale doesn't seem right and the elements fit together awkwardly such that the streetscape effect isn't convincing. I suspect this is just poor concept art and, even if this restaurant doesn't look great, I'll probably not pay much attention to it when I'm next there. Still, all we have really at this stage is concept art to discuss, so for those who don't think it looks quite right why not discuss it here?

 

[Goofyque']

So, how 'bout those crepes?

 

[Soluna16]

Not sure why so many people are complaining about the design of the buildings. As someone from that region I think it looks totally acceptable.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I think there's a difference between saying something looks fine to you and telling everyone else they are being ridiculous by taking themed design so seriously in a theme park forum. Particularly when we're talking about Disney, who have built so much of their reputation on attention to detail in themed design. It is indeed like going onto a Star Wars forum and telling people to stop thinking so much about Star Wars.

This horse has been beaten into glue.

But no, it’s more like going to a Star Wars forum and telling people the Bantha footprints in the sand at WDW are not exactly the right shape, they should be more rounded - and then act special for knowing that.

Attention to detail is wonderful. The Peter Pan queue is attention to detail. The landscaping is attention to detail.

These complaints seem more like gotcha technicalities than attention to detail.

 

[Flynnwriter]

Never fear, it’s just people who like to hear themselves talk, and think they’d be better Disney Imagineers - but none of them get that job.

(Save the objections; I do not share the love of hearing them talk. “Well, some of us have standards! Huff, puff...”)

Will check the place out if it’s open when I’m there.

Nice y tone - well done. Some of us had or have that job. That’s why we know the difference between a well done project and one that looks like they had no budget or imagination. There is a difference between a mall restaurant with a theme and an in-park Disney cafe.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Nice ****y tone - well done. Some of us had or have that job. That’s why we know the difference between a well done project and one that looks like they had no budget or imagination. There is a difference between a mall restaurant with a theme and an in-park Disney cafe.

I totally agree but I have to ask, lol, what mall are you guys going to? I gotta get there because I pretty much live in what is the US's largest mall (in leasable space) with the largest area of upscale french stores (King of Prussia) and it's a huge tourist attraction, I gotta say not a darn thing there looks like a Disney cafe.
So please tell me where you shop or eat that when you get there you think "this looks just like that restaurant in Epcot"

just lighting the mood.

 

[eliza61nyc]

So, how 'bout those crepes?

lol I don't even want to imagine what all our professional bakers are going to say about them when it opens.

 

[jt04]

Most of France doesn't look like Paris.

it is the France pavilion and not the Paris pavilion.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I totally agree but I have to ask, lol, what mall are you guys going to? I gotta get there because I pretty much live in what is the US's largest mall (in leasable space) with the largest area of upscale french stores (King of Prussia) and it's a huge tourist attraction, I gotta say not a darn thing there looks like a Disney cafe.
So please tell me where you shop or eat that when you get there you think "this looks just like that restaurant in Epcot"

just lighting the mood.

The crêperie is using design techniques similar to malls and other typically suburban shopping villages. A more specific name that will show such work is “lifestyle center.” Here is one, actually a more urban project but one patterned after lifestyle centers, that is even going for a French-y sort of look:

http://www.dailypublic.com/sites/default/files/2016/Jan/legvillage.jpg

 

[rkleinlein]

Most of France doesn't look like Paris.

it is the France pavilion and not the Paris pavilion.

Ça va sans dire there are places in France that don't look like Paris just as there are a lot of places in France with streets that do look like Paris. But that's completely beside the point.

The point is that this doesn't look like anything in Paris, or anywhere else in France. It doesn't even look like anything in the Disney version of France right there in Epcot.

(And the France pavilion, by the way, is modeled on the quintessential architecture of Haussmann's Paris more than any non-Parisian-looking part of France.)