News New Changes Coming to the Disney Look 2021

[Tony the Tigger]

The irony of this discussion is I really want to move to Orlando when I retire, and possibly work PT for Disney, and that means stashing away money. I could take my existing savings and comfortably retire in middle America tomorrow but I want to live in expensive Orlando and live near the parks, that means putting in the work to make it happen.

We are in a similar spot. We have family in Melbourne, not too far from Orlando. Everything is cheaper there compared to where we live (South Florida) and Orlando. While we originally thought we'd retire in the Keys, it may be more realistic to head up the coast instead of down. I would totally work at Disney in a heartbeat, especially as a bartender, but wherever we live, I will likely return to bartending at some point.

 

[mkt]

I’d like to see some sources on a claim like this, because I’m not sure it’s true.

Here you go.

TSA fails most tests in latest undercover operation at US airports

Source said the results were an improvement over the same test two years ago.

abcnews.go.com

Here’s How Bad the TSA Is Failing at Airport Security. It’s Time for Privatization.

This year, the Department of Homeland Security carried out covert tests on TSA security, and the results weren’t pretty.

www.heritage.org

But the relevance to this discussion is great. “It’s ok to treat frontline workers poorly because they’re not that good at their jobs and guests can take care of themselves anyway” is an interesting argument.

That's not even close to the argument I was making. Someone brought up the TSA and their wages, I argued given how high the TSA's failure rate is, maybe WDW CM's deserve to earn more than TSA baggage checkers.

 

[mkt]

Not if they can justify it having less to do with their own expenses, and more with what it's worth to the company.

Fair point.

Given how short staffed Disney is, I'd argue it's worth it to pay well enough to retain the talent they have.

 

[DisneyHead123]

General thought on the idea that more pay should always equal more value… this argument really does not resonate with me because it is clearly not the case in the white collar world or in the upper income brackets. It is sometimes the case, but often not. Does someone making 6 figures in HR or PR or management in a white collar job literally add 6 or 7 times the value to society as someone who performs a tangible service, like sweating in the sun to build roads, or cleaning floors, or serving food, and so on? I think that idea is absurd on its face. In many cases the real world value of what those in low paid positions are doing is far clearer. I can see the “more pay must equal more value” ideal in theory, but in actuality I just don’t think that is how pay works in our society. Selling yourself effectively, having the right network, being part of the white collar world and mastering the social norms that come with that - those are often key to a higher income. That’s not to say there aren’t doctors, nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, and so on who rightfully make more money for years of training or for taking on large risks. But that is certainly not always the case where matters of pay differences are concerned.

 

[Lilofan]

I highly doubt becoming a teacher is a pay decrease from being an entry level Disney CM. The line that teachers are underpaid is very much exaggerated. They are underpaid in comparison to doctors and lawyers, not in comparison to cashiers and baggers.

I give up.

Some pay that’s lower than public teacher pay is when a teacher takes on a role at a ( ie Catholic , private , etc ) school system. Those teachers must be in it for the love of teaching because pay is nowhere near what they would earn in a public school setting.

 

[Lilofan]

People also need to accept that every job has a ceiling, as a Bartender I’ll likely never make more than I do now, I’m one of the most senior guys (so I get the best shifts) and I’m in one of the best towns in the world for bartenders, the only way I’ll ever make more is by going back into management and working my way up to a VP or President of beverage, to do that I’d need to take a pay cut for the next decade though.

That’s my options, accept I’ve hit my jobs ceiling and keep doing it or take the plunge and start down the next path to make more, I can’t just demand another $20 an hour from my boss because I’d like my position to pay more. I’m fortunate that I make a very good living but even in my case I got a second job so I could stash away more money for retirement.

The irony of this discussion is I really want to move to Orlando when I retire, and possibly work PT for Disney, and that means stashing away money. I could take my existing savings and comfortably retire in middle America tomorrow but I want to live in expensive Orlando and live near the parks, that means putting in the work to make it happen.

One can live within a very short drive in nearby Kissimmee. You just have to live in the somewhat safer parts of the area.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Some pay that’s lower than public teacher pay is when a teacher takes on a role at a ( ie Catholic , private , etc ) school system. Those teachers must be in it for the love of teaching because pay is nowhere near what they would earn in a public school setting.

These jobs often come with some pretty amazing perks to offset the pay gap though, my SIL works at a private Christian school and one of the major selling points was staff tuition for my niece and nephew, the other major selling point was that private schools can kick out problem students. Her first job in a public school was tainted by a couple troublemaking students the school wouldn’t (or couldn’t) kick out no matter how disruptive they were and how many times they were suspended, this made her dread going to work. Her private school has issues too but nothing like she had to deal with at the public school.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Does someone making 6 figures in HR or PR or management in a white collar job literally add 6 or 7 times the value to society

That’s irrelevant. Society isn’t paying the manager; the company is. The question is what is that person worth to the company (largely based on what revenue they can generate) not to society.

Working hard does not make a job more valuable if anyone can do it. I never worked so hard in my life as when I was part time unloading semi trucks in a warehouse overnight against a timer.

The first truck I did, I was exhausted. I thought I finished on time until the supervisor came over and lifted up the floorboards. That was my “one bad,” and if I couldn’t finish the next one in time, my first shift would have been my last. That was for less than $10 an hour in the mid-90’s. You can bet I finished the second one in time.

But complain about what color you can dye your hair and tell me you should get paid more for compliance.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The question is what is that person worth to the company (largely based on what revenue they can generate) not to society.

The truth is, this is changing. We have lots of college kids graduating with graphic design and advertising degrees but nobody willing to drive a truck. Hence many UPS drivers making over $100k a year.

With social Media and reviews - good customer service, maintenance and cleanliness will be more and more valuable to companies.

 

[_caleb]

Here you go.

TSA fails most tests in latest undercover operation at US airports

Source said the results were an improvement over the same test two years ago.

abcnews.go.com

Here’s How Bad the TSA Is Failing at Airport Security. It’s Time for Privatization.

This year, the Department of Homeland Security carried out covert tests on TSA security, and the results weren’t pretty.

www.heritage.org

It wasn’t the “TSA Agents perform poorly” part of your claim I doubted, it was “the US Air Marshals do much better” part. Any sources on that, of just an assumption on your part?

That's not even close to the argument I was making. Someone brought up the TSA and their wages, I argued given how high the TSA's failure rate is, maybe WDW CM's deserve to earn more than TSA baggage checkers.

Sorry I misunderstood. Your mention of Air Marshals and how passengers have shown willingness to intervene made me think you were saying something different.

 

[mkt]

It wasn’t the “TSA Agents perform poorly” part of your claim I doubted, it was “the US Air Marshals do much better” part. Any sources on that, of just an assumption on your part?

An educated guess based off the respective hiring and training standards for both, as well as the stark difference in negative press towards them.

 

[DisneyHead123]

That’s irrelevant. Society isn’t paying the manager; the company is. The question is what is that person worth to the company (largely based on what revenue they can generate) not to society.

You’re right that I should have talked about company revenue, not societal value. But change that term and I think all the points I made still stand. There are people with random, pointless, paper pushing type jobs that are paid extremely well. People are paid based on a constellation of factors, of which value is only one.

 

[Lilofan]

An educated guess based off the respective hiring and training standards for both, as well as the stark difference in negative press towards them.

Besides having a similar starting rate as a no experience CM in parks and resorts , a few say just pay them a higher starting rate.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

The truth is, this is changing. We have lots of college kids graduating with graphic design and advertising degrees but nobody willing to drive a truck. Hence many UPS drivers making over $100k a year.

With social Media and reviews - good customer service, maintenance and cleanliness will be more and more valuable to companies.

How is that contradictory?

The UPS driver is generating revenue by delivering packages. The question is still what are they worth to the company, not to society, unless they are working directly for the government.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

There are people with random, pointless, paper pushing type jobs that are paid extremely well.

Bring it to the attention of the corporation, and they'll likely remedy the situation if they are truly "pointless."

 

[el_super]

Working hard does not make a job more valuable if anyone can do it.

You're still not really understanding. Skill level alone isn't the only determining factor on pay. Even if a job requires absolutely no skill or prior experience, people could reject taking that job because a better, easier job exists.

Disney is no exception to this. That means, even if pulling an ODV cart requires absolutely no skill whatsoever, Disney still ends up having to pay more because of the nature of the job. Just being a CM, having to park miles away from your worksite, having to wear and maintain a uniform and adhere to appearance guidelines, having to know where 52 different restrooms are across a 100 acre property... it all adds up. If your talent pool can find a job at the mall with easier access to parking and less restrictive appearance guidelines, for the same level of pay... why wouldn't they do that? That's why Disney ends up having to pay more.

It's been said over and over in this thread that no employee should expect more pay for the same responsibility, but why isn't the same true for the employer? Why should they expect more responsibility at the same level of pay? Why should any Disney cast member take on the added responsibility of either adhering to or enforcing the appearance guidelines (that aren't being enforced today) for the same level of pay?

Answer: they won't.

 

[el_super]

The truth is, this is changing. We have lots of college kids graduating with graphic design and advertising degrees but nobody willing to drive a truck. Hence many UPS drivers making over $100k a year.

I think you're right on this. I think we are quickly approaching a point where working physically in-person, in a customer service role, is going to garner a higher premium on labor.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

You're still not really understanding. Skill level alone isn't the only determining factor on pay. Even if a job requires absolutely no skill or prior experience, people could reject taking that job because a better, easier job exists.

Disney is no exception to this. That means, even if pulling an ODV cart requires absolutely no skill whatsoever, Disney still ends up having to pay more because of the nature of the job. Just being a CM, having to park miles away from your worksite, having to wear and maintain a uniform and adhere to appearance guidelines, having to know where 52 different restrooms are across a 100 acre property... it all adds up. If your talent pool can find a job at the mall with easier access to parking and less restrictive appearance guidelines, for the same level of pay... why wouldn't they do that? That's why Disney ends up having to pay more.

It's been said over and over in this thread that no employee should expect more pay for the same responsibility, but why isn't the same true for the employer? Why should they expect more responsibility at the same level of pay? Why should any Disney cast member take on the added responsibility of either adhering to or enforcing the appearance guidelines (that aren't being enforced today) for the same level of pay?

Answer: they won't.

It's not extra responsibility. It's required at the time of hiring. Furthermore, it's been relaxed, so it's the opposite of "added" responsibility. It's less.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The UPS driver is generating revenue by delivering packages. The question is still what are they worth to the company, not to society, unless they are working directly for the government.

everyone at a Disney park is generating revenue one way or another. And I’m not sure what society has to do with this?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I think you're right on this. I think we are quickly approaching a point where working physically in-person, in a customer service role, is going to garner a higher premium on labor.

We can all applaud that as we pay triple for everything.

Do you know why things from China are cheaper? Labor costs. They pay enormous amounts for shipping containers of goods because the goods cost that much less due to low labor costs. (No, I am not advocating for sweatshops, I'm saying how it is.)

Payroll is the single largest controllable expense.

We will all pay much more for everything, just for everyone to feel better and all be in the exact same boat.