New Anna/Elsa standby procedure?

natatomic

Well-Known Member
Now, this idea of a reservation system for some attractions is not all bad. Disney can't have people waiting in 4+ hr lines. It amounts to lost revenue in sales of merchandise and food and unhappy customers because they had to wait in line so long. Something here had to be done and this seems right in this case. There has to be some kind of formula internally going forward on when it is OK to do this, let say standby waits that are consistently 2 to 3 hrs long turns it into a reservation system. Or better yet, let's address the demand/capacity issues aka, new soar'n theater, expansion to Toy Story, More set's of princesses or more attractions over all.

I think this is the wrong "something" however. The whole MDE thing was what? $1 billion to $2 billion depending on who you ask. I'm gonna be lenient with them, though, and say it only cost $1 billion, because I'm just so dang nice. Expedition Everest cost $100 million (including the $10 million yeti statue). That means they could have built 10 (TEN!) Expedition Everest level attractions. And that thing is a people eater - 2200 an hour at full capacity! They could even have built 5 attractions that size, and then 10 attractions half that size (and cost). Honestly...the amount of stuff they could have built with that money is mind boggling. Heck, use the money to build 5 E tickets, then use the rest on developing more unique merchandise, more unique dining...more things to generate revenue.
(Granted, we're talking 10 years ago, so maybe things cost a little more today. Still...you could still probably get 9 EEs for that type of dough).

They're trying to fix the wrong problem here. Demand has exceeded capacity for much of WDW attractions. Rather than figure out how to use smoke and mirrors to decrease the perception of that demand, they should just build more places to hold that demand.
 

Mawg

Well-Known Member
I think this is the wrong "something" however. The whole MDE thing was what? $1 billion to $2 billion depending on who you ask. I'm gonna be lenient with them, though, and say it only cost $1 billion, because I'm just so dang nice. Expedition Everest cost $100 million (including the $10 million yeti statue). That means they could have built 10 (TEN!) Expedition Everest level attractions. And that thing is a people eater - 2200 an hour at full capacity! They could even have built 5 attractions that size, and then 10 attractions half that size (and cost). Honestly...the amount of stuff they could have built with that money is mind boggling.
(Granted, we're talking 10 years ago, so maybe things cost a little more today. Still...you could still probably get 9 EEs for that type of dough).

They're trying to fix the wrong problem here. Demand has exceeded capacity for much of WDW attractions. Rather than figure out how to use smoke and mirrors to decrease the perception of that demand, they should just build more places to hold that demand.

I don't want to argue that logic because I like it so "dang" much. And, I do feel that 2 billion for MDE was way too much and will take way to long to recoup that cost. But ride capacity is a problem and the long term solution should be to add more attractions. But this is a meet and greet and not a ride. It is also something that will eventually and quicker than most attractions have demand eventually die down. Adding attraction after attraction will not solve the problem with this meet and greet (it will for other rides) the same amount of guests will still want to experience it at least for another year. This is an isolated case where I feel a reservation system was necessary because in another year no one will care any more and you can't build new areas to take people from it in less than a year. Every problem has to be evaluated as to if it needs a short term solution cheap and quickly or a long term solution that is more expensive or both. A meet and greet that will only be hugely popular for another year at the park with the most to do does not warrant a long term solution. Problems at AK and HS are a different story. They require quick short term solutions which we saw at HS with a Frozen summer, and villains unleashed party, medium term solutions such as expanding the ride capacity at Toy Story and longer term solutions such as a new Star Wars Land among other rumors we have been hearing. AK had a short term solution of move the lion king first so that they do not lose capacity, medium term add the night time show and night safari, longer term finish Pandora.

Everyone on here always says, they need to add more attractions and I don't disagree with that plan but it is not a complete plan you have to have a plan/solution that incorporates the now with the future. I feel we are starting to see Disney deal with the NOW and we are seeing some development towards the Future. I feel that they are finally doing a good job at putting out the fires while not spending all their resources on the fires and spreading some of the resources to the future for fire prevention. Hopefully, some day in the future they are no longer putting out as many fires and do a better job at fire prevention AKA long term planning and expansion. But I doubt it.
 

AngryEyes

Well-Known Member
I agree with the addressing the demand/capacity but I think the overall problem at WDW is there isn't enough to do in these parks. Out in California Soarin and TSMM peak around 45 minutes all day (unless exceptionally busy days), even their newest E-ticket Radiator Springs Racers typically stays around 90 minutes - this is due to Disneyland Park and California Adventure have enough attractions to meet demand and therefore keep some of the line times down. There's no excuse for WDW to have lines this long - they need to spend some money on new attractions and make keep people happy.

That's partially the case, sure, but another major consideration at Disneyland is that the majority of their visitors are locals. They have (or had, not sure if there have been recent changes) something like a million APs out there. When I've ridden Soarin' Over California 20 times and can ride it next week and the week after that, if I choose, I'm not as likely to stand in any given line as I am when I get to be here once a year or once a decade. When this is my one chance to ride, perhaps ever, I'm going to be willing to wait a little longer.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
But doesnt that ultimately just move people around differently and in the end they dont experience more (or less for that matter) than before? I would also bet that some yahoo in corporate sold them on the idea that this will keep people in the parks longer, which it could, but how long can they keep up this shell game? Until Avatar opens and for all we know it will have 2 new attractions which may turn AK into a 2/3's day park instead of a 1/2 day park? They could very well go all out and build 5 new attractions, but I doubt it.
If you aren't standing in this m&g line for hours, you're experiencing more.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
I think this is the wrong "something" however. The whole MDE thing was what? $1 billion to $2 billion depending on who you ask. I'm gonna be lenient with them, though, and say it only cost $1 billion, because I'm just so dang nice. Expedition Everest cost $100 million (including the $10 million yeti statue). That means they could have built 10 (TEN!) Expedition Everest level attractions. And that thing is a people eater - 2200 an hour at full capacity! They could even have built 5 attractions that size, and then 10 attractions half that size (and cost). Honestly...the amount of stuff they could have built with that money is mind boggling. Heck, use the money to build 5 E tickets, then use the rest on developing more unique merchandise, more unique dining...more things to generate revenue.
(Granted, we're talking 10 years ago, so maybe things cost a little more today. Still...you could still probably get 9 EEs for that type of dough).

They're trying to fix the wrong problem here. Demand has exceeded capacity for much of WDW attractions. Rather than figure out how to use smoke and mirrors to decrease the perception of that demand, they should just build more places to hold that demand.

So if money was not the issue (if cost were equal between MDE and new attractions) why do you think they went with MDE? Just curious.

I enjoyed MDE and think it does a great job of adding to the immersion at WDW, it did for us anyways. I can only imagine had my kids been younger how much more that would have been true. Magic bands that do everything from opening doors to park tickets, FP admission and buying things.... pretty cool stuff to a little one :) Heck I am 45 and I think the MBs are cool as can be. They certainly are like nothing I have going on in my "real" life outside of WDW :(

They can just make a sequel to Frozen and payoff the MDE bill anyways :)
 

natatomic

Well-Known Member
So if money was not the issue (if cost were equal between MDE and new attractions) why do you think they went with MDE? Just curious.

I enjoyed MDE and think it does a great job of adding to the immersion at WDW, it did for us anyways. I can only imagine had my kids been younger how much more that would have been true. Magic bands that do everything from opening doors to park tickets, FP admission and buying things.... pretty cool stuff to a little one :) Heck I am 45 and I think the MBs are cool as can be. They certainly are like nothing I have going on in my "real" life outside of WDW :(

They can just make a sequel to Frozen and payoff the MDE bill anyways :)

Gahhhh, I honestly don't know. I don't make the big bucks to make those kind of decisions. Heck, all the things I've ever said Disney "should" do in my past posts are super easy to say from the comfort of my own chair with my imaginary billions of dollars that I made from my imaginary business degree. (You should see the imaginary house I live in - it's fabulous!) I'm sure it'd be much different sitting in the boardroom, answering to shareholders, dealing with actual dollars that can affect the livelihoods of tens of thousands of employees.

Having said that, I'll go ahead and give my Average Joe guess (so please don't any of you pick this apart too much!) as to why they went the MDE route. I think the main reason is that the company is currently run by people who are totally motivated by the almighty dollar. Attractions on their own don't generate revenue - they might boost attendance during grand openings, but long term, they don't sustain record-breaking numbers. (Well, mostly. You could kind of argue against that with what Everest did for DAK. And now look at Harry Potter at Uni. Grand openings for parts 1 and 2 saw BEYOND ridiculous crowds, and while that level of attendance has since died down, HP has no doubt brought in a noticeable increase in attendance that has remained steady over the last 4 years. However, very few projects ever have that insane response. I think the only thing that could match - and possibly surpass - it would be if Disney built a Star Wars land to that same caliber. Although isn't it sad that I'm asking DISNEY to match UNIVERSAL'S level? I feel like I should go wash my mouth out with soap. Anyway...sorry for that long aside.) Magic bands themselves don't generate revenue, but it's one of those long-term projects that raises revenue in subtle, sly ways that your average guest wouldn't even notice. I think these ways have been discussed ad nauseam in MDE related threads, so I won't get into it beyond saying it's largely due to data mining, the psychology behind not having to pull out your wallet to pay for anything, streamlining the whole vacation experience, etc. The data mining, I think, is the big one here. Never before has Disney has such accurate, detailed info about every single guest's day to day movements while on property. Future projects will be far less guess work as they have a more accurate idea of what works and what doesn't and for whom.

But then I think of what's going to get me to a park - If I were a local who could only afford one annual pass for a Resort (big R) for the 2014 year, which one would I choose? The one with a new kiddie coaster and a piece of wearable plastic that doubles as my credit card (but makes my wrist sweat unbearably in this FL heat!) or the one with an entire new and fully immersive land with a state of the art attraction, unique food and beverage offerings, unique merchandise, etc. etc. For me, for this year, I would choose the latter. Now, I know that all of this is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone would compare the two Resorts as I just did. A non-local might not have to choose between parks if they've budgeted for both; a family with a toddler might prefer that kiddie coaster over the state of the art attraction; some might not have any interest in the theme of the new immersive land, etc. But in the theme parks wars, I think Universal overall has won by leaps and bounds this year. Hands down. And I think they've been winning the past couple of years, honestly.

Disney needs to go back to their model of MIXING new state of the art attractions in with their revenue-generating ideas. Not picking just one or the other. But again, it's all easy for me to say "this is what works" with my layman perspective and ideas. :)
 
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BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
Gahhhh, I honestly don't know. I don't make the big bucks to make those kind of decisions. Heck, all the things I've ever said Disney "should" do in my past posts are super easy to say from the comfort of my own chair with my imaginary billions of dollars that I made from my imaginary business degree. (You should see the imaginary house I live in - it's fabulous!) I'm sure it'd be much different sitting in the boardroom, answering to shareholders, dealing with actual dollars that can affect the livelihoods of tens of thousands of employees.

Having said that, I'll go ahead and give my Average Joe guess (so please don't any of you pick this apart too much!) as to why they went the MDE route. I think the main reason is that the company is currently run by people who are totally motivated by the almighty dollar. Attractions on their own don't generate revenue - they might boost attendance during grand openings, but long term, they don't sustain record-breaking numbers. (Well, mostly. You could kind of argue against that with what Everest did for DAK. And now look at Harry Potter at Uni. Grand openings for parts 1 and 2 saw BEYOND ridiculous crowds, and while that level of attendance has since died down, HP has no doubt brought in a noticeable increase in attendance that has remained steady over the last 4 years. However, very few projects ever have that insane response. I think the only thing that could match - and possibly surpass - it would be if Disney built a Star Wars land to that same caliber. Although isn't it sad that I'm asking DISNEY to match UNIVERSAL'S level? I feel like I should go wash my mouth out with soap. Anyway...sorry for that long aside.) Magic bands themselves don't generate revenue, but it's one of those long-term projects that raises revenue in subtle, sly ways that your average guest wouldn't even notice. I think these ways have been discussed ad nauseam in MDE related threads, so I won't get into it beyond saying it's largely due to data mining, the psychology behind not having to pull out your wallet to pay for anything, streamlining the whole vacation experience, etc. The data mining, I think, is the big one here. Never before has Disney has such accurate, detailed info about every single guest's day to day movements while on property. Future projects will be far less guess work as they have a more accurate idea of what works and what doesn't and for whom.

But then I think of what's going to get me to a park - If I were a local who could only afford one annual pass for a Resort (big R) for the 2014 year, which one would I choose? The one with a new kiddie coaster and a piece of wearable plastic that doubles as my credit card (but makes my wrist sweat unbearably in this FL heat!) or the one with an entire new and fully immersive land with a state of the art attraction, unique food and beverage offerings, unique merchandise, etc. etc. For me, for this year, I would choose the latter. Now, I know that all of this is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone would compare the two Resorts as I just did. A non-local might not have to choose between parks if they've budgeted for both; a family with a toddler might prefer that kiddie coaster over the state of the art attraction; some might not have any interest in the theme of the new immersive land, etc. But in the theme parks wars, I think Universal overall has won by leaps and bounds this year. Hands down. And I think they've been winning the past couple of years, honestly.

Disney needs to go back to their model of MIXING new state of the art attractions in with their revenue-generating ideas. Not picking just one or the other. But again, it's all easy for me to say "this is what works" with my layman perspective and ideas. :)

We think alike, I know I don't know what I don't know so I am not going to pound on Disney or Universal for everything they do. I not sure I would pick a winner of the two parks, I think they both improved. But that is the point, I don't have too. It's like Japanese baseball....who cares who wins, enjoy the "game" as it is played :)

Now when are we having the party at your imaginary mansion? I mean I can fly there on my imaginary jet and bring my imaginary band where I am the singer and play all the instruments as well :)

Oh yeah my imaginary girlfriends are coming too!
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Leave it to some Comic Con goer to beat Disney to this:

10263839_gal.jpg
 

ECJack

Member
I didn't see it anywhere, though it might be posted elsewhere, but the test will be run starting this week at Soarin'. It will be a three day test there, running the 29-31 of July. It's going to work just like it has been at Anna and Elsa, fill the Standby line then hand out return time tickets.
 

Kuzcotopia

Well-Known Member
I think this is the wrong "something" however. The whole MDE thing was what? $1 billion to $2 billion depending on who you ask. I'm gonna be lenient with them, though, and say it only cost $1 billion, because I'm just so dang nice. Expedition Everest cost $100 million (including the $10 million yeti statue). That means they could have built 10 (TEN!) Expedition Everest level attractions. And that thing is a people eater - 2200 an hour at full capacity! They could even have built 5 attractions that size, and then 10 attractions half that size (and cost). Honestly...the amount of stuff they could have built with that money is mind boggling. Heck, use the money to build 5 E tickets, then use the rest on developing more unique merchandise, more unique dining...more things to generate revenue.
(Granted, we're talking 10 years ago, so maybe things cost a little more today. Still...you could still probably get 9 EEs for that type of dough).

They're trying to fix the wrong problem here. Demand has exceeded capacity for much of WDW attractions. Rather than figure out how to use smoke and mirrors to decrease the perception of that demand, they should just build more places to hold that demand.

It really is hard to understand.

One thing I've thought of is how much $$$ does it cost to maintains ride once it's built?

Everest cost 100 million, but how much does it costs a year to maintain?

Not defending anything, but we're thinking of these attractions as a fixed cost. It seems that the larger that WDW gets, the higher the maintenance and the more complex the logistics of service and maintenance.

At some point, there would have to be a saturation point where it's no longer cost effective to maintain its size (kind of like a land based mammal that can only get so big before it circulatory system is unable to support it, or there aren't enough hours in the day to feed it).

I have no idea what these numbers look like, but I'm sure somebody knows. . .
 

wdrive

Well-Known Member
It really is hard to understand.

One thing I've thought of is how much $$$ does it cost to maintains ride once it's built?

Everest cost 100 million, but how much does it costs a year to maintain?

Not defending anything, but we're thinking of these attractions as a fixed cost. It seems that the larger that WDW gets, the higher the maintenance and the more complex the logistics of service and maintenance.

At some point, there would have to be a saturation point where it's no longer cost effective to maintain its size (kind of like a land based mammal that can only get so big before it circulatory system is unable to support it, or there aren't enough hours in the day to feed it).

I have no idea what these numbers look like, but I'm sure somebody knows. . .

This is really generalized but attendances rise year on year for the most part. This means more guests and more money being spent year on year which means more profit for Disney. The continuously rising attendances also causes longer lines, something which will put people off from coming, more attractions will help to lower the average wait time which in turn makes happier guests who are more likely to return and spend more money. In theory you have a nice cycle where new attractions come which keep the ever continuing crowds happy and growing. Except enough people come anyway to keep the executives happy so they don't really need to build all that much.
 

wogwog

Well-Known Member
How long are lines for Cindy and Rapunzel? Would it be worth knocking them down to 1 room and upping Frozen to 3? Or even kicking Cinderella and Rapunzel out into the streets like Snow White and Aurora and turning the Princess meet and greet into a Frozen one?
At the moment Saturday 12:20 on the Guest Relations tip board feed...Frozen 90, Cindy and Rapun 30, Belle 30, MM 35, Tink 15, 7 Ds 75
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member

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