New Anna/Elsa standby procedure?

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dadddio

Well-Known Member
cw1982 said:
Not exactly. If we were talking about a ride, I'd agree with this 100%, since capacity is based on an exact number of seats being filled per hour. But with character meet and greets, going by exact numbers of guests isn't exactly a reliable science, since many guests take a group picture (or a few, or whatever) and go on. The amount of time that is spent with each group of guests is supposed to be about the same, within reason, regardless of the number of people in that group. So a group of five and a group of three will get roughly the same amount of time with those characters, but the group of five is taking up more of those passes, which helps to make the number of passes available diminish quicker and leads to fewer families meeting the sisters.
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If the characters have downtime because they don't have guests in line to see them, you are correct. Otherwise, there is no change, capacity-wise.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
wdwgreek said:
This is all so counter intuitive. If someone chooses to wait 3 hours they wait 3 hours, they know what they are getting into. Fastpasses are great; use them when you can, but if every attraction starts giving everyone fastpasses and eliminates the standby line, than fastpass lines would become by default akin to the old stand by lane. This system makes no sense.
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It's just a test. Even if the test is successful, we don't know how it would actually be implemented. It seems that the most logical (and easiest) way to implement it would be to simply add it to the current FP+ system.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
burks said:
This might work for a meet and greet that people only want to experience once a trip or maybe a show but I don't see it working well for a ride type attraction as the standby lines will actually get longer, exponentially longer!

The standby line acts as a deterrent when it gets too long and makes people make a decision if it is worth over an hour wait to get in it, everyone has their own cut of point. At 15 minutes maybe 2% less people get in line at 30 mins 20% less, at 1 hr 50% less, at 2hr 90% less. The longer the line is the slower it grows, eventually it comes to a point where it just does not get any longer as it is not worth it to the greater majority. If this system is introduced for a ride and people do not have to wait in line for more than 30 minutes ever it will be less of a deterrent. People will get their standby pass do other things and come back. Essentially, this will make the standby line even longer you just won't see it because people are in line but scattered all over the park doing other things until their time comes up. I could see the standby line reaching 8 to 10 hours very quickly with people not being deterred and getting more than one pass why not I can do other things while I wait. Get a pass at 10 am and it says come back at 10 pm means the standby line is actually 12 hrs long. Anyone coming into the park at 4 pm may be very limited in what they can do. If they were to do this for many attractions in a park, this would eliminate park hopping as people would need to arrive at a park early use their fast passes so they can get more and start collecting standby passes and line them up for the rest of the afternoon and evening. Hopping to another park would mean all the good fast pass pluses are gone and all the standby passes are gone for the day. Nothing to do but watch some fireworks, parades, do low demand attractions, shop and eat.

I see some who would like this and others that would not. But one thing is for certain it would take a lot of planning to tour correctly and it defeats what they have done with Fast Pass Plus as now once again people will be running around gathering up standby passes.

For meet and greets I do like the idea though, just not anything else.
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The so-called SB line in your scenario would not got increasingly longer. In fact, it could never be allowed to go over thirty minutes (or whatever the length of the window is) because if it did go over, then ride capacity would not be able to 'catch up'. In fact, this is the basic argument against going to FP-only. If the ride goes down for any length of time, then it will not be able to catch up. A SB ling of virtually any percentage is the buffer for this problem.
 
Mawg

Mawg

Well-Known Member
dadddio said:
The so-called SB line in your scenario would not got increasingly longer. In fact, it could never be allowed to go over thirty minutes (or whatever the length of the window is) because if it did go over, then ride capacity would not be able to 'catch up'. In fact, this is the basic argument against going to FP-only. If the ride goes down for any length of time, then it will not be able to catch up. A SB ling of virtually any percentage is the buffer for this problem.
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I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Yes if the ride goes down your standby pass may not be any good. But the line will be longer than 30 minutes if you are allowed to be in a virtual line and do other things. For Anna and Elsa the line is much longer than 30 minutes, it was 4.5 hrs. Now those people don't have to stand in line but they are still in line and the people who said 4.5 hrs is too long to wait in line will now say why not get a standby pass it's not like we actually have to stand in line. The people that the line deterred will no longer be deterred and the line will get longer. It just won't be a physical line anymore. Eventually the standby line gets so long that it can't accommodate before the park closes and they have to shut down the standby line.
But ride break downs is a good point and another reason why I don't think this system would work well for a ride type attraction.
 
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natatomic

Well-Known Member
From what someone told me, the test actually went really smooth. And they reopened the line at around 830 last night*. Apparently both Cinderella's and Rapunzel's lines were both longer than normal yesterday however.

I don't know… I still don't like it. I would hate to be the guest told that I can't see them at all unless the line MAYBE opens back up at some later time that is impossible to determine.

As for the comparison to JTA, I don't think that's really fair. A spot JTA was never, ever was a guaranteed for any child. When it first opened, it was a random luck. But M&Gs have ALWAYS been a sure thing, so long as you were willing to wait the given time. I don't like Disney telling me how long is "too long" to wait, and then denying me access when they tell me it's "too long." No..."never" is too long, Disney.

*this is just what I was told. I don't know for absolute certain.
 
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natatomic

Well-Known Member
Ahhh, no wonder it all went so smoothly - apparently they had a whole slew of guest relations, managers, Park support, and even Phil Holmes himself out front yesterday once all tickets had been handed out. This is just speculation, but I'm sure many extra FPs for other attractions were handed out to placate the masses.

They were also giving out free digital download cards to guests who just wanted a picture of the princesses, from what I heard.

ETA: does anyone know what happens to those who have passes for later in the evening if they've opened up the standby line? The standby line is 60 to 90 minutes long, then they would end up waiting much longer than anyone else who had the pass earlier did. Unless you let them into the fastpass line, but then that would end up making the fast pass line longer… and it's not a fast pass anyways, sooo...

Good grief. This is so confusing.

Also, I can imagine many people giving up their FP+ for A&E to open up another slot for another attraction, and then just joining the rope drop crowd in the morning to get this FP-/Standby+/moderatepass/whatever ticket instead.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
burks said:
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Yes if the ride goes down your standby pass may not be any good. But the line will be longer than 30 minutes if you are allowed to be in a virtual line and do other things. For Anna and Elsa the line is much longer than 30 minutes, it was 4.5 hrs. Now those people don't have to stand in line but they are still in line and the people who said 4.5 hrs is too long to wait in line will now say why not get a standby pass it's not like we actually have to stand in line. The people that the line deterred will no longer be deterred and the line will get longer. It just won't be a physical line anymore. Eventually the standby line gets so long that it can't accommodate before the park closes and they have to shut down the standby line.
But ride break downs is a good point and another reason why I don't think this system would work well for a ride type attraction.
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The only way that your point is true is if they give out an unlimited number of return passes. Certainly, they would limit the number of returns to the capacity of the m&g. In which case, no one should ever be in the return line longer than thirty minutes.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
natatomic said:
From what someone told me, the test actually went really smooth. And they reopened the line at around 830 last night*. Apparently both Cinderella's and Rapunzel's lines were both longer than normal yesterday however.

I don't know… I still don't like it. I would hate to be the guest told that I can't see them at all unless the line MAYBE opens back up at some later time that is impossible to determine.

As for the comparison to JTA, I don't think that's really fair. A spot JTA was never, ever was a guaranteed for any child. When it first opened, it was a random luck. But M&Gs have ALWAYS been a sure thing, so long as you were willing to wait the given time. I don't like Disney telling me how long is "too long" to wait, and then denying me access when they tell me it's "too long." No..."never" is too long, Disney.

*this is just what I was told. I don't know for absolute certain.
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The m&g for Jasmine in Epcot is not a sure thing. It actually took us three tries to get to meet her.
 
Mawg

Mawg

Well-Known Member
dadddio said:
The only way that your point is true is if they give out an unlimited number of return passes. Certainly, they would limit the number of returns to the capacity of the m&g. In which case, no one should ever be in the return line longer than thirty minutes.
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Now I understand what you are saying and know that you are not understanding me.
If they know the capacity of the ride is 1200 an hour and 200 fast passes are given out per hour it means they can handle 1000 standby's an hour. Break this up into 30 min intervals and they can give out 500 standby tickets for each 30 minute window. You never have to wait in the physical line for more than 30 minutes. But they can't stop giving out standby passes just because they have filled one of the 30 minute blocks, they are going to fill the next one and the next one and the next one until they reach the capacity of the day and then say sorry folks there are no more standby passes. The standby line is now closed.
Yes, you are correct, the "Physical Line" is not more than 30 minutes because they limit the number of passes to the rides capacity just like they are doing for the meet and greet. But the standby line is not just the physical line anymore it is the summation of the physical line and the virtual line (the virtual line being the people with return passes who's window has not opened yet). Since the Physical line is only ever 30 minutes this will not act as a deterrent for people to not get in line (which means get a pass). All the passes will be handed out very quickly equating to the standby line is full for the entire day.
 
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mikeh

Well-Known Member
natatomic said:
ETA: does anyone know what happens to those who have passes for later in the evening if they've opened up the standby line? The standby line is 60 to 90 minutes long, then they would end up waiting much longer than anyone else who had the pass earlier did. Unless you let them into the fastpass line, but then that would end up making the fast pass line longer… and it's not a fast pass anyways, sooo...

Good grief. This is so confusing.

Also, I can imagine many people giving up their FP+ for A&E to open up another slot for another attraction, and then just joining the rope drop crowd in the morning to get this FP-/Standby+/moderatepass/whatever ticket instead.
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The whole "testing phase" is fluid. That said, yesterday they had no overlap of return tickets and regular standby.

Guest Relations CM's were pushing this as a way to free up a FP+, so you're right in assuming that people will prefer rope drop/return time over using a FP+
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
lentesta said:
I'm told this new procedure is in response to complaints from guests without smartphones or experience using tablets, who were essentially shut out from short waits at popular attractions.

I wouldn't be surprised if this sticks around and is expanded. Disney's only real FPP option here is to push people to the kiosks. But if they hate the idea of using a tablet, or just don't want to be bothered, it could be in Ops' best interest to serve them.
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As you are no doubt aware, one of the debates during the early days of xPass was whether or not there was enough market penetration for smart phones to make this work. Ops knew that Fastpass+ was going to be difficult at best, and while those of us that understand it can benefit from it, the learning curve is undoubtedly higher than with original Fastpass. An argument could be made that the end game is more flexible but getting to that end game is what's more difficult.

This brings me back to the original system. Use the infrastructure in place, but revert back to the old rules. Allow guests to get Fastpasses for any available attraction at kiosks and on their phone and give people that don't have smart phones the option of getting an actual paper Fastpass as a reminder of the time.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
burks said:
Now I understand what you are saying and know that you are not understanding me.
If they know the capacity of the ride is 1200 an hour and 200 fast passes are given out per hour it means they can handle 1000 standby's an hour. Break this up into 30 min intervals and they can give out 500 standby tickets for each 30 minute window. You never have to wait in the physical line for more than 30 minutes. But they can't stop giving out standby passes just because they have filled one of the 30 minute blocks, they are going to fill the next one and the next one and the next one until they reach the capacity of the day and then say sorry folks there are no more standby passes. The standby line is now closed.
Yes, you are correct, the "Physical Line" is not more than 30 minutes because they limit the number of passes to the rides capacity just like they are doing for the meet and greet. But the standby line is not just the physical line anymore it is the summation of the physical line and the virtual line (the virtual line being the people with return passes who's window has not opened yet). Since the Physical line is only ever 30 minutes this will not act as a deterrent for people to not get in line (which means get a pass). All the passes will be handed out very quickly equating to the standby line is full for the entire day.
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I think that you are making it too complicated.

Theoretically, I suppose that you are correct. One way to look at getting a return ticket is that I am in a virtual line for the entire time. That being said, I'm not ACTUALLY in that line. I'm off eating stuff, riding rides, eating stuff, browsing shops, eating stuff, seeing shows, eating stuff, etc. It's only when I come back at my return time do I get in the actual line, which I spend less than thirty minutes in.

A few months ago, we were trying to meet Jasmine in Epcot. We arrived just as the CM closed off the line to additional people. She explained that the line already had as many people as the characters could see, so it was closed. She explained that if we came back a few minutes before the next m&g time, then we would be able to see meet them and are wait would only be fifteen minutes or something like that. So we cam back when she told us and waited probably twenty minutes total. I suppose that I could begin the wait calculation at the time when I started my conversation with the CM who told me to come back, but that doesn't make sense, since I didn't spent that time waiting for the m&g. I spent it eating stuff, browsing countries, eating stuff, playing p&f, eating stuff, not riding Maelstrom, eating stuff, etc.

In my mind, these return tickets for A&E are little different from my experience with Jasmine, with the exception that the ticket holders are guaranteed to see A&E if they return in their window, while I had no such assurance with Jasmine.
 

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