Nemo ruined it! Bring back hydrolators!

wannab@dis

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
Shaman said:
Yeah that may be an issue...but who knows maybe it becomes a classic like one of the MK dark rides...

The infrastructure is there...I suppose it would not be so hard to refresh and update it every now and then with different scenes...then again, I am not an expert...:D

Maybe they should have demolished the pavilion and started from scratch...It seems that they were kinda limited by the layout and design of TLS...
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I wonder if demolishing it was even a possibility... I seem to remember reading that the Seas pavilion was a big chunk of the overall construction costs of Epcot due to the aquatics requirements and size involved. They probably still need more time to depreciate the investment. :lol:
 
Enderikari

Enderikari

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Ever stop to think how much better the makeover could have been with more money?
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I promised myself I wouldn't get into this fight, and I am still not, with the exception of this comment...

Ever stop to think how much better a car I could drive with more money?
Ever stop to think how much better food I would eat (prime rib everyday!) with more money?
Ever stop to think how much better ______ could have been with more money?


Both the real world, and Walt Disney World, have budgets. Its a fact of life... Sure we could all dream what would happen if WDW put 3 billion dollars (or more!) into the complete and total revamping of Epcot, and I bet you some of our dreams would be cool... But, its simply not feasible, and not in that, "Its kind of fun to do the impossible..." Walt kind of way... Because for every Walt, there is a Roy. The man who has to convince the bankers to invest, the stockholders to hold, the shareholders to believe. Real world concerns like return on investments, and depreciation factor into decisions.. Its not pretty, its not always what folks want it to be, but that is life... What they did with The Living Seas, I am a fan of (boy, bet you didn't see that coming). Nemo's Undersea Adventure is cute, and people have been begging for a dark ride for years... Be happy! Enjoy what's there, and if you don't... no one is forcing you to go to Epcot, right? No one is going to make you go into The Seas, right?

Now lets all acknowledge the changes that have been made, and sort of agree to disagree... This post was started in jest, by a pretty funny satire, and degenerated into the same arguments as have been debated over and over again... Hoo-ray for your originality, Dr. Albert Falls. Now let's get back to our regularly scheduled program...

"The World is a carousel of color....
Beautiful, Magical Color..."
 
Z

ZambeziZelda

Member
Enderikari said:
I promised myself I wouldn't get into this fight, and I am still not, with the exception of this comment...

Ever stop to think how much better a car I could drive with more money?
Ever stop to think how much better food I would eat (prime rib everyday!) with more money?
Ever stop to think how much better ______ could have been with more money?


Both the real world, and Walt Disney World, have budgets. Its a fact of life... Sure we could all dream what would happen if WDW put 3 billion dollars (or more!) into the complete and total revamping of Epcot, and I bet you some of our dreams would be cool... But, its simply not feasible, and not in that, "Its kind of fun to do the impossible..." Walt kind of way... Because for every Walt, there is a Roy. The man who has to convince the bankers to invest, the stockholders to hold, the shareholders to believe. Real world concerns like return on investments, and depreciation factor into decisions.. Its not pretty, its not always what folks want it to be, but that is life... What they did with The Living Seas, I am a fan of (boy, bet you didn't see that coming). Nemo's Undersea Adventure is cute, and people have been begging for a dark ride for years... Be happy! Enjoy what's there, and if you don't... no one is forcing you to go to Epcot, right? No one is going to make you go into The Seas, right?

Now lets all acknowledge the changes that have been made, and sort of agree to disagree... This post was started in jest, by a pretty funny satire, and degenerated into the same arguments as have been debated over and over again... Hoo-ray for your originality, Dr. Albert Falls. Now let's get back to our regularly scheduled program...

"The World is a carousel of color....
Beautiful, Magical Color..."
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Excellent post! One of the only bits of sanity in this entire thread :sohappy:
 
dxwwf3

dxwwf3

Well-Known Member
I'm kinda with Enderikari here. I think The Seas looks like it wasn't done on the cheap and if there were a lack of funds there, a great job was done to make it not look that way. Sure I've not seen the pavilion yet in person, but everything I'm seeing online looks great to me. It looks like we are getting a high level of themeing and the character usage isn't cartoony or out of place in FW. I think that the Nemo characters can certainly be used to educate in certain parts of the pavilion and keep the "Epcot theme" intact. Sure anything could be better with more funds, but I think The Seas turned out great no matter how much money was used.

This change definitely looks more like The Land than Imagination or SGE. The quality is there and the character usage seems to be very balanced as well.
 
Epcot82Guy

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
Actually, now that TWDC has become a huge entertainment conglomorate, you have about 40 Roys for every Walt. The overhead of the company is staggering sheerly because of size. That does not tend to spawn vision. Never has, never will. You need far too much revenue to try things for the long-term.

And, to respond to your prior question wannab, I think your character argument is valid. Ever since you raised it, I questioned why Figment was ok for me and not the film characters. What I think the distinction is for me is the concept of reality. The film characters are sheerly for entertainment. They have a story and a tie to a movie. An entire fantasy. The Epcot characters were still tied to fantasy, but their story, and that of the entire park, was just more founded in a fantasy presentation of the future based on actual achievements. I know that may not be a satisfying response, but the distniction does sit in my mind. I guess I would liken it to having Nemo appear in The Little Mermaid. There is a feeling and a spirit... a story of Epcot. When you placed the characters in, they had their own story, so that imports that feeling into the other story. It just feels off to me.

Also, you do highlight something that I have said time after time. TLS was failing. I AM NOT ADVOCATING A STAGNANT EPCOT. Change was necessary. However, where I see the problem is in the direction of the change. There are many, many inspirational ways to showcase the achievements of many without the blatanly marketable Disney characters. Sea research is fascinating. It can be dry as TLS showed, but there have to be ways to present it without Nemo. I can think of some, so WDI certainly can. The thing is that Nemo will get people in cheaply (I do not mean it was done cheaply. The attraciton appears to be quality, but it is cheaper than having to develop a truly inspired attraction that pulls people in on its merits). Just puting his picture up will up attendance. That is absolutely a valid business model. However, it does come at a cost. Those of you that love it are the NEW audience. You have every right to love it. It is marketed to you. However, all I would ask is that you realize there are many that do not. Although Epcot was seen as "failed" or "flawed", it still was pretty successful at bringing people in from an objective number. It worked, even if not to the level of expectation. Therefore, to change that premise entirely (which the new Epcot has), will come at the price of alienating and turning off some of the original audience. I guess I just have (or had) faith that TWDC and WDI would be able to find ways to appeal to a greater audience while still respecting the foundations and abstract concepts of EPCOT Center. I think we saw that in Soarin' and The Land's renovation (especially when a new, more global-oriented film comes down). They CAN do it. But, as Martin pointed out, it has not been a consistent run. That's what is scary because this shoehorning, quick-fix approach can set a dangerous precedent.
 
v_misses_epcot

v_misses_epcot

Member
SirGoofy said:
Cuz you know what Walt wanted.:rolleyes: Walt wanted Epcot to be a city, so I'm sure he was rolling in his grave when they made it a theme park, right? I'm sick of people acting like they know what "Walt would've wanted."
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Says the man that knew him up close and personal :rolleyes:

And I'm sorry, but I don't listen to people that can't spell "BECAUSE."
And by the way, walt wanted a place where family can get together and be happy. I'm sorry, but working at epcot, I see family walking around very happy. I was at character connection today about one hour ago and a family came up to me and thanked me for having this place open up so they can have a family picture with the characters.

I'm sure most families are out there trying to have a good time and are not even thinking about what was the past for epcot. It's the present and unless they're hardcore disney nuts....I don't really think they giving a flying MICKEYS BUTT that there's no more "classic epcot."

And did you ever stop to think that it's guest first time at epcot?? Or at disney world in general. I see a lot of "1st time" buttons while at work.

In the end, all this bickering isn't going to get you anywhere, so please calm yourselves, enjoy life and stop getting into a huff and puff over the fact that epcot isn't what everyone wants it to be. In other words, while it's sad that all the classic rides are gone, TOUGH COOKIES!!
 
Epcot82Guy

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
v_misses_epcot said:
In the end, all this bickering isn't going to get you anywhere, so please calm yourselves, enjoy life and stop getting into a huff and puff over the fact that epcot isn't what everyone wants it to be. In other words, while it's sad that all the classic rides are gone, TOUGH COOKIES!!
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I guess I don't understand this argument in any way. Of course Disney will do what it wants. But, I don't see how that translates into a necessity of acceptance and forced enjoyment. If someone truly loved the original EPCOT Center and feels Epcot of 2006 is lacking, that's fine. This will not bring it back. However, I think you have to be sympathetic that people who feel this way feel a great loss. Whenever you change, you run the dramatic risk of alienating original audiences. Sometimes, that is worth the risk. Other times, it is not. The truly successful, though, find a way to maintain what was there and build upon it in any way they can until a change in the original design becomes necessary. For me personally, there are 3 Epcots. The original, what it is today, and what it could be today with the level of design and thought going into TLS, The Land, I:ROE, and (to an extent) M:S. It is the loss of the "could be" that saddens and bothers me. It is change when change was not necessarily required (i.e. it was more change than was needed to accomplish certain goals). Remember Coke II was a disaster. You really have to know your product and your audience before change can take place.

I do agree that bickering and non-argued statements are pointless. However, to say one must simply roll over and accept change is far too bold and insensitive. There are those who feel a sense of loss, and that is an inevitable risk the company must face (and, yes, I worked at Epcot, too, and heard those sentiments from returners. Not just crazy "Disney geeks." We just tend to be more vocal about it. Both sides exist, and exist in large numbers.).
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Enderikari said:
Be happy! Enjoy what's there, and if you don't... no one is forcing you to go to Epcot, right? No one is going to make you go into The Seas, right?
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Enderikari; you miss my point. Was this directed at me or was it a generalisation?If you read my comments in this and other threads you`ll see I`m as excited an the next darkride fan about this. What I mean is if more money had been available imagine a ride like this but twice as long, with more effects and AAs. I see it as a minor engineering miracle what they`ve done to the inside of the show building. It`s not a complaint about what`s been done.
 
J

johnvree

Member
Dr Albert Falls said:
And oh man, now there are going to be long lines full of dumb children with short attention spans.
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I know we should be allowed to express our opinions here, but I think this is a little harsh. Then again, most kids are pretty dumb.

Oh, and I agree with everything else you said..., even though I haven't experienced the attraction yet (just like all the other doomsayers).
 
metscool

metscool

Active Member
I don't know why you guys are giving it a bad review I rode the ride 24 time(the 25 the ride broke) yesterday and it was great.
 
v_misses_epcot

v_misses_epcot

Member
Taryn said:
geez. And I thought my 10 in the last week was excessive..
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Ten times for me too! XD! We have no life Taryn. And why haven't I seen you? If I'm not tipping the board, I'm at characters, emh, innoventions east and west? oh well, I think we've traded pins before. You don't happen to be irish kevins friend right? The red head with the piggy tails? :D
 
emmersandjack

emmersandjack

Member
Yowsa!! "Most kids are pretty dumb"??????? I seriously hope that this statement was made in jest. Can we just step back and remember that we are in fact just talking about an attraction at a theme park-without making broad social generalizations?
 
F

fundesign

Member
metscool said:
I don't know why you guys are giving it a bad review I rode the ride 24 time(the 25 the ride broke) yesterday and it was great.
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The ride was okay. Once again, another mediocre attraction brought to you by the Eisner era. I felt as though I was being moved from one projection screen to another. The scenic was small-scale and the POV was limiting. At least with Horizons, a similar POV, the scenes were much larger and immersive. I remember going on an omnimover ride at a science museum when I was a kid; this reminded me of that ride. The lower budget was obvious and hopefully the last of its kind that we'll see since Iger and his new team are here.

On the positive side, the animation was great. The projection boxes integrating live sea life with the characters reads effectively. The clam vehicles were nice and the queue sets the mood until the actual load area.

I know there is still some tweaking to take place but my first reaction is about a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10. I also know that this attraction will be a HUGE success with the public because of Epcot's lack of entertaining attractions that I could count on one hand. They'll love anything new at this point.

I'm really looking forward to Midway Mania and several other projects in development right now. I hope the Nemo ride will be the last low budget, average quality attraction we'll see in a long while.
 

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