MyMagic+ article from Fast Company magazine

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Why are you wondering? The article tells you what the point was:



and



Cost overruns and Orwellian doublespeak are the way of the future, guys!

I'll have to get back with more thoughts when I'm done making cookies…

I do think we are getting slightly off tangent with being held up by how much this cost. Of course they're going to use every single accounting trick in the book to avoid the straight up costs. It really doesn't matter to me… because the cost can easily be measured by looking at what DHS, DAK & Future World at Epcot look like today.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
It may have something to do with the fact that Wdisney9000 and yourself asked him pointed questions about wether his work was on the up and up, I think.

He did answer other questions as well, so it's not just you two.
I just counted real quick. Out of 15 post responding to folks, 13 were to individual posters.

Edit: I spent more time writing this than actually counting. I may have miscounted.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Expedition Everest opened in 2006. By Disney's own 10K statements, WDW attendance increased:
  • 5% in 2005 with Per Capita Guest Spending (PCGS) increasing 2%
  • 5% in 2006 with PCGS increasing 1%
  • 6% in 2007 with PCGS increasing 3%
Attendance was rebounding after the post-9/11 recession, with Disney offering discounts and the cheaper Magic Your Way tickets, resulting in very little growth in PCGS. (Only the recession year of 2009 had lower PCGS growth.) Expedition Everest had little to do with attendance gains. Certainly it was not a revenue driver.
Animal Kingdom growth was faster than Disney World's growth. Using TEA numbers (which understandable are less accurate than Disney's own numbers) WDW's attendance growth from 2005-2006 was 5.87% while DAK was 8.66%. From 2006-2007 WDW's attendance growth was 4.51% while DAK was 6.51%.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Animal Kingdom growth was faster than Disney World's growth. Using TEA numbers (which understandable are less accurate than Disney's own numbers) WDW's attendance growth from 2005-2006 was 5.87% while DAK was 8.66%. From 2006-2007 WDW's attendance growth was 4.51% while DAK was 6.51%.

Ah. I looked at some of the attendance growth over a 10 year period in another thread. I prefer looking at attendance trends over long periods of time to establish the trend rather than year to year. Yes, DAK grew more than the resort overall,youre right on the money there.

MK was 14M guests in 2003 and 10 years later estimated at 18.6M in 2013. That is 32% growth during a war, a recession, the tech bubble and all sorts of bad things happening to the economy. Same 10 year span shows Epcot up 30%, DHS 27% and DAK up 39%. (For added context USF grew only 6% while IOA grew 28% from 2004-2013)

Alas 30%+ growth over 10 years without MM+? I wonder how theyre going to exceed that from 2013-2023?
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Animal Kingdom growth was faster than Disney World's growth. Using TEA numbers (which understandable are less accurate than Disney's own numbers) WDW's attendance growth from 2005-2006 was 5.87% while DAK was 8.66%. From 2006-2007 WDW's attendance growth was 4.51% while DAK was 6.51%.
You're missing the point; Disney invests in attractions to make money. If attendance simply shifts from one park to another, Disney makes zilch. Disney's reported financial results (never mind the often questioned TEA numbers) for the years before and after the opening of Expedition Everest (2005-2007) show no special bounce as a result of Expedition Everest. In fact, in the year that Expedition Everest opened, PCGS was up the second lowest since Disney started reporting the metric, suggesting the attendance driver that year was discounts.

Disney could cut ticket prices in half and I guarantee that attendance would skyrocket. That doesn't mean it's a smart financial move.

Talk about DAK attendance all you want but Expedition Everest was not a revenue driver.
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
im wondering since there was so much animosity between different groups if there wasn't purposeful misinformation about the project like it being near 3 billion dollars

This. A culture of complacency within a corporation is a sign of trouble. Couple that with the hate company-lifers have for change and you get the political battles waged when big ideas and projects make their way through the apparatus. Bloody infighting filled with warring agendas and spin. It's a battle still being fought today, at corporate, the media...here. The irony is that some criticize Disney for not being innovative enough.

Disney took a huge risk not only investing as much as they did, but when they did. After all, weren't comparable corporations playing the wait and see game, hoarding money during the Great Recession and subsequent recovery? Sure maybe it wasn't investments in cool new attraction/experiences like the ones our uncle the Imagineer was pushing, but at least Disney was thinking big and long term big. They were banking on a strong recovery. Maybe they jumped the gun. Maybe their paranoia about the theme park concept soon becoming old-fashioned was hysterical. Perhaps they should've built more rides. But consumers change. What would the wait time be for IASW had been built and opened today? Dark rides are cool, but how much of what we enjoy is nostalgia and how much of what we enjoy is the ride itself?

The average person walking into parks today (we fans don't count) have some very different expectations than Walt's crowds in the 60s. Disney was trying to get ahead of what average people would want 10-20 years out. The infrastructure is there now, and yes maybe a friend or two might lose their jobs a long the way, due to efficiencies (or not), but now Disney can (and should) focus on building and expanding on their NGE with cool attractions and experiences (Frozen-themed or not).

If only to be able to justify the ridiculous admission prices and room rates and help us ignore the often horrible over-priced food at the parks.

Just my opinion. The article was interesting.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
You're missing the point; Disney invests in attractions to make money. If attendance simply shifts from one park to another, Disney makes zilch. Disney's reported financial results (never mind the often questioned TEA numbers) for the years before and after the opening of Expedition Everest (2005-2007) show no special bounce as a result of Expedition Everest. In fact, in the year that Expedition Everest opened, PCGS was up the second lowest since Disney started reporting the metric, suggesting the attendance driver that year was discounts.

Disney could cut ticket prices in half and I guarantee that attendance would skyrocket. That doesn't mean it's a smart financial move.

Talk about DAK attendance all you want but Expedition Everest was not a revenue driver.
You heard it here first... Disney should not invest in new attractions...

In all seriousness, Everest didn't cannibalize attendance from the other parks like say Animal Kingdom did initially when opening. The other parks also saw attendance increases, Animal Kingdom's was quicker. Sure, I'll buy into your argument that all 1 million guests are not attributable to Everest, but some of them absolutely are.
 

VJ

Well-Known Member
You're a DISNEY HATING HILLBILLY!!!! Why don't you go to Universal so the lines will be shorter for the rest of us who see the MAGIC, who feel the MAGIC, who live the MAGIC!!!
I gotta say, this forum and your posts have turned me off to the word "magic" or "magical" for probably the rest of forever.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
You heard it here first... Disney should not invest in new attractions...

In all seriousness, Everest didn't cannibalize attendance from the other parks like say Animal Kingdom did initially when opening. The other parks also saw attendance increases, Animal Kingdom's was quicker. Sure, I'll buy into your argument that all 1 million guests are not attributable to Everest, but some of them absolutely are.

30% growth over Ten Years.

Nothing was cannibalized.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
30% growth over Ten Years.

Nothing was cannibalized.
Not sure if that number was for Everest or DAK as a whole, but when DAK first opened, overall guests at the resort increased, but in '98 and '99 attendance at the other 3 parks dropped. By '00 though all four parks increased in attendance.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
I gotta say, this forum and your posts have turned me off to the word "magic" or "magical" for probably the rest of forever.
magic-crying.jpg
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
It won't let me edit the previous post but there was an error in it:

By '00 though, the 3 oldest parks increased in attendance while DAK dropped.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I thought the article was a pretty good read. It seems well researched and there are none of the obvious factual inaccuracies that we see in so many stories about WDW. I can't see how any rational person could consider it a puff piece, but I guess not everyone has to be rational.

I thought the vast majority of the regular posters here asked good questions and I think it's pretty cool that the author has stuck around to answer them. This has obviously been a hot topic issue around here for years now and brings out a lot of passion. It's interesting to me to see something written from the perspective of an unbiased outsider.
 

betty rose

Well-Known Member
This is a great question -- thanks so much for asking it. I totally agree, the ROI of MM+ is usually a top reason for skepticism of the nearly $1 billion program. There's a couple things to keep in mind about this:

- First, people often point to the features of the program -- unlocking hotel room doors, FP+, accessing attractions, etc. -- and wonder, How can something as intangible as added convenience create an ROI? My personal feeling is that these small conveniences add up, and if that culminates in improved "intent to return" metrics, that will be a huge help to Disney's bottom line going forward.

- Second, a lot of its features are in fact not intangible, but very tangible. Photo Pass/Memory Maker costs somewhere btwn $169 to $199; the MagicBand has become one of the top 5 best-selling SKUs across all of WDW; seamless payments have ramped up guest spend; and the 30% cut in transaction time is also significant. Re: the 5,000 additional folks into Magic Kingdom, that's a big deal, if you consider how much more revenue they can simultaneously generate for the same experience. And that doesn't include the #s at each of the other parks -- Tom Staggs told me not to multiply 5,000 by the # of parks, because the figures vary, but the point is, more guests will almost always equate to more revenue.

- Third, it's important to put that $1 billion figure into perspective. What moves the needle these days? Will spending another $100 million on another Expedition Everest set up Disney for the long term? Perhaps. But Disney is a company that plays for the long game -- that's what makes it so innovative -- and it's willing to invest big where it counts, even if it's risk, as was the case with MM+. The company simply could not go on forever, as Steve Jobs said, using paper tickets, having scant data on its consumers, and offering little by way of personalization, technology, and mobility.

Plus, as one top source told me, "Over the same period that MM+ incurred a $900M investment [in MM+], the base organization...spent $2B+ in traditional marketing m, $2B in traditional IT and $8B in labor expenses." I'd take these figures with a grain of salt, because I haven't confirmed them, but the point is, billion-dollar investments are almost table stakes for the scale at which Disney operates.

But most importantly, as multiple sources told me of MM+, it won't take much to prove the program to give a return. "You really only need a 1% or 2% change in your 'intent to return' to take care of it, because this project was about changing how everyone experienced [the park], so thus it impacted everyone's price value -- not just the people who experience a single new hotel or a single new ride," one of these sources says.

- Lastly, as I said before, Disney is a company that plays for the long game. MM+ had a ton of up-front costs, and faced a ton of criticism like any bold new experiment. But you'll start to see the fruits of this labor, hopefully, in the years ahead. And many of the upfront costs -- like tripling guest relations, a burden on its P&L -- will wind down as the system becomes more polished and consumers are more educated about its purpose.

Hope that helps!
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Not sure if that number was for Everest or DAK as a whole, but when DAK first opened, overall guests at the resort increased, but in '98 and '99 attendance at the other 3 parks dropped. By '00 though all four parks increased in attendance.

I think you're looking year-to-year while I'm looking at the resort as a whole over a ten-year period, 03-13.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
I'm not 100% sold on any narrative that I have personally not taken part in.
That being said, I believe that there is quite a bit of truth to the article. Do I believe every word out of Staggs mouth is absolute truth (or any quoted person for that matter)? No. But I do believe the overall article as presented was a true narrative given the facts the author found during his reporting.
You should seriously be in politics. Your fear of commitment to a solid answer is rivaled only by J. Carney.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
You should seriously be in politics. Your fear of commitment to a solid answer is rivaled only by J. Carney.
Because I answered truthfully? That tends to be looked down upon in politics!
Why is it hard to believe that someone can like and dislike different parts of something? Do you at times mistake my attempts at humor for truth? Do you think I was not joking when I spoke of wanting to have no reserved seats on airplanes?
What should I have answered? Yes, I'm 100% sold? No, I'm not? I answered the question truthfully.

Here, I give you fair game. Ask me a question, any one, and I will answer it honestly. I will also (likely) abstain from joking.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Hey @AustinC - I have a question that is neither paranoid or ridiculous.

Do you have any other future uses of MB/MDE/FP+ that you didn't mention in the article?
As we know, DAS is making its way in, wait times for busses will be there eventually, etc. but anything else that maybe we haven't heard of? Or even something FP+ related- like them ultimately wanting us to have 5, 6, 7 daily options?
The dumb Wired article mentioned the possibility of random meet and greets or seeing you're waiting in line too long so they'll send you an ice cream coupon, etc, but that article kind of blew compared to yours.

Appreciate the question. Throughout my reporting, I definitely heard a lot of hints of potential uses for MM+ going forward, but mostly in an operational capacity, and a lot of it was aimed at just smoothing out what's already been launched, whether online or in-park.

However, I did here of several features that were killed in the process, which I found particularly interesting. I hate to tease, but I want to hold back on revealing this here now, in case we end up writing a follow-up about this particular topic. Sorry I can't go into more detail!
 

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