My next trip will be my last for a while…

[eliza61nyc]

I was specifically referring to the fact that more goes into deciding whether or not people will go to WDW today than in the past, and in many cases the cons are winning. I did not say that they win in every case, and many people do not weigh them at all because, as you say, they are unaware of their existence.

I also do not have the numbers on new versus repeat guests. There are many famous places I've visited over the years that were on my bucket list but have been "one and done" trips due to crowds, admission prices, and entrance procedures, while I would gladly go back to others. Millions still flock to these places, but I don't know how many make repeat visits.

I've also often wondered how much Disney relies on repeat guest. I do think though that there are a multitude of reasons that also play into being a one and done visitor. One big reason could be that families now have a heck of a lot more options than they had in just the 70's. I also wonder if Disney is trying to cater to the one and done. I remember my first trip, we spent crazy amounts of money because we thought it would be one a done. the first timer is the guy who's going to take his kids to character meals every meal, lol. They're going to buy the mickey ears, the sweat shirts, the souvenirs. where as folks like me who love to go and have been a time or two, not so much.

now one thing I give the folks in mouse world a lot of credit is that they are marketing geniuses. they have conditioned folks to believe that going to wdw or DL is now a rite of passage so in a way they have an never ending supply of guest.

but basically like I said we've been prophesying for a while about what is going to be the tipping point and nothing seems to stick. the parks are still packed to the rafters. so somehow wdw is convincing folks that those cons are not important.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Paying into a system that turns a blind eye or outright contributes so much evil is what this is about. There are bigger issues in the world than whether you had a delay on Space Mountain.

very true but most folks who go on vacation go to escape those "bigger" issues and one man's evil is not another man's. the things that bother some people barely make others blink. I was there in September of last year and did not see anything offensive or disturbing in the parks and I don't have an issue with Ip being in Epcot, so yeah if I'm at disney world than yes getting onto space mtn might be important.

 

[Imhere]

When exactly is this mass exodus supposed to happen. I'm serious, you really think the supposedly "cons" are winning??
Every year for the last 10 years I've heard HERE about how whatever current gripe is going to be the comeuppance for Disney and every year the parks get more and more packed. So in all seriousness how in the heck are the cons remotely "winning".

LOL, did you read the thread on the Starcruiser before it opened?

Most on that thread just about insisted that halfway through the first cruise everyone would revolt and they'd have to close up, refund everyones money and turn the building into storage.

It didn't quite turn out that way.

 

[Editor516]

I was specifically referring to the fact that more goes into deciding whether or not people will go to WDW today than in the past, and in many cases the cons are winning. I did not say that they win in every case, and many people do not weigh them at all because, as you say, they are unaware of their existence.

I also do not have the numbers on new versus repeat guests. There are many famous places I've visited over the years that were on my bucket list but have been "one and done" trips due to crowds, admission prices, and entrance procedures, while I would gladly go back to others. Millions still flock to these places, but I don't know how many make repeat visits.

I guess the question is why guests go to WDW in the first place. For some, it’s nostalgia, something they did as a kid with their families: it’s a traditional vacation. This is especially true during the 50th anniversary celebration, which I believe is driving a lot of the current park traffic (along with COVID “revenge travel”). For others, it’s because of the marketing and a perception based on that marketing. And for some, it’s because the parks are the logical next step for their kids who have been raised on Disney programming. That is, see the characters on TV or in a movie, then go meet them or go on their attractions in WDW.

But if Disney changes its programming - movies, TV, etc. - in a way that keeps parents from exposing their kids to that programming, then it stands to reason that kids won’t feel like WDW is a place they have to go since there’s no connection in the first place. And parents won’t feel the desire, let alone the need, to take their kids to a Disney park and spend thousands of dollars to do so.

Adding IP to the parks is a way to establish and strengthen the connection and make WDW a must-visit destination for kids raised on and with that IP, but if the connection isn’t made in the first place, the popularity of the parks will die down.

In theory.

But it’s much more complex than that, as the international reach of Disney and the global view of Disney World as a must-visit American destination can offset the loss of angry American parents and disinterested kids. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out in the post-50th years.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I guess the question is why guests go to WDW in the first place. For some, it’s nostalgia, something they did as a kid with their families: it’s a traditional vacation. This is especially true during the 50th anniversary celebration, which I believe is driving a lot of the current park traffic (along with COVID “revenge travel”). For others, it’s because of the marketing and a perception based on that marketing. And for some, it’s because the parks are the logical next step for their kids who have been raised on Disney programming. That is, see the characters on TV or in a movie, then go meet them or go on their attractions in WDW.

But if Disney changes its programming - movies, TV, etc. - in a way that keeps parents from exposing their kids to that programming, then it stands to reason that kids won’t feel like WDW is a place they have to go since there’s no connection in the first place. And parents won’t feel the desire, let alone the need, to take their kids to a Disney park and spend thousands of dollars to do so.

Adding IP to the parks is a way to establish and strengthen the connection and make WDW a must-visit destination for kids raised on and with that IP, but if the connection isn’t made in the first place, the popularity of the parks will die down.

In theory.

But it’s much more complex than that, as the international reach of Disney and the global view of Disney World as a must-visit American destination can offset the loss of angry American parents and disinterested kids. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out in the post-50th years.

so far that hasn't happen and I truly can't see any situation political or not that would cause this mass exodus. Now I just did a quick google search, at the end of 2021 Disney plus had 129 MILLION paying customers worldwide and about 43 million in the US.

Now I will admit I haven't followed the controversy surrounded this but how is Disney changing it's programing. if any thing they've been smart to encompassing more people. Encanto is a hit, lord knows Frozen definitely capture a whole generation of girls and they've done a good job expanding to the "tween-teen" set by acquiring marvel

I'm just not seeing this mass exodus of mad American parents. I never say "never" and I think losing a bunch of business might be the only way they will even remotely change park operations. again I'll just say that we've definitely been prophesying that Disney was going to be in "trouble" for at least 8 years and I haven't seen any indication of that at all.

I admit to being out of the loop and I'm not from florida, outside of this website the most grumbling I've read or heard is simple that it's expensive.

 

[heapster411]

I've also often wondered how much Disney relies on repeat guest. I do think though that there are a multitude of reasons that also play into being a one and done visitor. One big reason could be that families now have a heck of a lot more options than they had in just the 70's. I also wonder if Disney is trying to cater to the one and done. I remember my first trip, we spent crazy amounts of money because we thought it would be one a done. the first timer is the guy who's going to take his kids to character meals every meal, lol. They're going to buy the mickey ears, the sweat shirts, the souvenirs. where as folks like me who love to go and have been a time or two, not so much.

now one thing I give the folks in mouse world a lot of credit is that they are marketing geniuses. they have conditioned folks to believe that going to wdw or DL is now a rite of passage so in a way they have an never ending supply of guest.

but basically like I said we've been prophesying for a while about what is going to be the tipping point and nothing seems to stick. the parks are still packed to the rafters. so somehow wdw is convincing folks that those cons are not important.

I have watched Disney move away from repeat customers. Bounceback was a wonderful idea which helped bring down the cost of our yearly visits, is no more. They have made AP's priced out of most peoples price range, Very little discounts for rooms, and Food and Beverage costs slowly climbing. I am getting the vision that it's striking midnight, and Disney's Coach has turned into a pumpkin, and us return visitors, aren't in the mood for Pumpkin.

 

[JohnnyAmerican]

I guess the question is why guests go to WDW in the first place. For some, it’s nostalgia, something they did as a kid with their families: it’s a traditional vacation. This is especially true during the 50th anniversary celebration, which I believe is driving a lot of the current park traffic (along with COVID “revenge travel”). For others, it’s because of the marketing and a perception based on that marketing. And for some, it’s because the parks are the logical next step for their kids who have been raised on Disney programming. That is, see the characters on TV or in a movie, then go meet them or go on their attractions in WDW.

But if Disney changes its programming - movies, TV, etc. - in a way that keeps parents from exposing their kids to that programming, then it stands to reason that kids won’t feel like WDW is a place they have to go since there’s no connection in the first place. And parents won’t feel the desire, let alone the need, to take their kids to a Disney park and spend thousands of dollars to do so.

Adding IP to the parks is a way to establish and strengthen the connection and make WDW a must-visit destination for kids raised on and with that IP, but if the connection isn’t made in the first place, the popularity of the parks will die down.

In theory.

But it’s much more complex than that, as the international reach of Disney and the global view of Disney World as a must-visit American destination can offset the loss of angry American parents and disinterested kids. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out in the post-50th years.

Excellent points. The last 2 times we went I said it would be the last time, but nostalgia pulled us back in. I think now, with no real benefit for staying on property, going at the least crowded times of the year only to find they are light on staff causing long waits, this Lightning mess which sounds like you need to be tethered to your phone all day, the price hikes on food that has really gone down hill, and most importantly, the culture shift that seems to have invaded the company has pushed me to cancel Disney+ and add more days to Universal and go to Sea World for the first time, completely taking WDW out of the plans and save me about $8K. I think the first time my wife and I took our kids, we had spent close to a grand before we even left the Poly on the first day. Heart breaking, but this is not the Disney I grew up on.

 

[Imhere]

It's funny how everyone looks at their WDW vacations differently. Part of my vacation is staying on site, I have stayed at a ton of resorts and have loved every one of them. It just wouldn't be the same *for us* staying at the Drury Inn and driving to the parks every day, driving back if we want to take a swim, driving back to the park for a night time activity. People rent houses, I don't want to rent a house, I want to stay in a resort. I know someone who lives in an apartment that is basically in the outfield of our local baseball team. Some think it's the same, but it's not the same to me to sit on his balcony and watch the game. I can see everything the people in the stadium can see, I can hear the announcers, it's just not the same, *to me*.

One thing is that we are early risers. We are at rope drop at every park every day of every visit, we are up anyway. I think getting to a park at opening is better than any FastPass or any Genie or any +. We get a ton done without trying.

I've been to Universal & Busch Gardens & Sea World. At Disney I can sit on a bench and people watch. At Disney I can just wander around without really doing anything. When I go to Universal/Sea World, *for me*, there isn't any theme, it's just go from ride to ride.

I would bet that most who complain about being on their phones all day at Disney are on their phones all day every day when they aren't at Disney. At Disney you may be trying to mobile order lunch, if you weren't at Disney you'd be typing "What you doing?"

Any cultural beliefs held by some random Disney exec in Anaheim is likely not to affect the Zombie I'm drinking at Grog's Grotto.

Our last trip was last summer. We had to wear masks for the first couple days of our trip. There were no parades. There were no night time shows. The food we ate was as good or better than anytime in the past. That trip was the best ever, which is how I feel after every trip.

It costs more every year to go to Disney. It costs more every year to go to the beach. It costs more every day to go to the gas station.

 

[JohnnyAmerican]

It's funny how everyone looks at their WDW vacations differently. Part of my vacation is staying on site, I have stayed at a ton of resorts and have loved every one of them. It just wouldn't be the same *for us* staying at the Drury Inn and driving to the parks every day, driving back if we want to take a swim, driving back to the park for a night time activity. People rent houses, I don't want to rent a house, I want to stay in a resort. I know someone who lives in an apartment that is basically in the outfield of our local baseball team. Some think it's the same, but it's not the same to me to sit on his balcony and watch the game. I can see everything the people in the stadium can see, I can hear the announcers, it's just not the same, *to me*.

One thing is that we are early risers. We are at rope drop at every park every day of every visit, we are up anyway. I think getting to a park at opening is better than any FastPass or any Genie or any +. We get a ton done without trying.

I've been to Universal & Busch Gardens & Sea World. At Disney I can sit on a bench and people watch. At Disney I can just wander around without really doing anything. When I go to Universal/Sea World, *for me*, there isn't any theme, it's just go from ride to ride.

I would bet that most who complain about being on their phones all day at Disney are on their phones all day every day when they aren't at Disney. At Disney you may be trying to mobile order lunch, if you weren't at Disney you'd be typing "What you doing?"

Any cultural beliefs held by some random Disney exec in Anaheim is likely not to affect the Zombie I'm drinking at Grog's Grotto.

Our last trip was last summer. We had to wear masks for the first couple days of our trip. There were no parades. There were no night time shows. The food we ate was as good or better than anytime in the past. That trip was the best ever, which is how I feel after every trip.

It costs more every year to go to Disney. It costs more every year to go to the beach. It costs more every day to go to the gas station.

More excellent points. I haven't sold my shares, yet...lol. I think as we get older and the kids are grown and we're not running to get on rides, it will be worth revisiting Disney to just walk around and enjoy the environment and seek out the good food (no more dessert parties). And hopefully by that point Epcot will still retain some of what Walt envisioned. We stayed at GF before but felt too young for it, so maybe it'll be a better fit in a few years.

 

[Sawdust]

There ARE many ways WDW assists visitors with special needs ( disABILITIES! ) now.
Not sure I'm allowed to link here but there's an excellent ongoing thread on another popular DIS Forum site that is very helpful....especially with all the changes to everything...that keep on changing...with lots of real-life real-time suggestions.

Hope very much you & your family have a VERY magical visit.

Thank you for the tip. We’re looking in to the DAS options.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It's funny how everyone looks at their WDW vacations differently. Part of my vacation is staying on site, I have stayed at a ton of resorts and have loved every one of them. It just wouldn't be the same *for us* staying at the Drury Inn and driving to the parks every day, driving back if we want to take a swim, driving back to the park for a night time activity. People rent houses, I don't want to rent a house, I want to stay in a resort. I know someone who lives in an apartment that is basically in the outfield of our local baseball team. Some think it's the same, but it's not the same to me to sit on his balcony and watch the game. I can see everything the people in the stadium can see, I can hear the announcers, it's just not the same, *to me*.

One thing is that we are early risers. We are at rope drop at every park every day of every visit, we are up anyway. I think getting to a park at opening is better than any FastPass or any Genie or any +. We get a ton done without trying.

I've been to Universal & Busch Gardens & Sea World. At Disney I can sit on a bench and people watch. At Disney I can just wander around without really doing anything. When I go to Universal/Sea World, *for me*, there isn't any theme, it's just go from ride to ride.

I would bet that most who complain about being on their phones all day at Disney are on their phones all day every day when they aren't at Disney. At Disney you may be trying to mobile order lunch, if you weren't at Disney you'd be typing "What you doing?"

Any cultural beliefs held by some random Disney exec in Anaheim is likely not to affect the Zombie I'm drinking at Grog's Grotto.

Our last trip was last summer. We had to wear masks for the first couple days of our trip. There were no parades. There were no night time shows. The food we ate was as good or better than anytime in the past. That trip was the best ever, which is how I feel after every trip.

It costs more every year to go to Disney. It costs more every year to go to the beach. It costs more every day to go to the gas station.

I think is excellent that when you leave WDW you feel that it was the best trip ever! This has much less to do with what WDW is doing or not doing and more to do with your positive attitude. I am willing to bet your positive attitude also helps you in all aspects of your life. Keep it up!

 

[Editor516]

More excellent points. I haven't sold my shares, yet...lol. I think as we get older and the kids are grown and we're not running to get on rides, it will be worth revisiting Disney to just walk around and enjoy the environment and seek out the good food (no more dessert parties). And hopefully by that point Epcot will still retain some of what Walt envisioned. We stayed at GF before but felt too young for it, so maybe it'll be a better fit in a few years.

It might not take a few years. Disney is giving the lobby of the GF a “modernization” makeover, including more IP. Apparently adding Beauty and the Beast to the lobby bar and replacing Citricos’ Mediterranean theme with a Mary Poppins theme was only the beginning of the changes there. Reports say they’re even removing the space for the band, so live music will be gone from the GF lobby, too.

The Grand Floridian was designed to represent, you know, grand-old-Florida from the early 1900s (hence 1900 Park Fare), but when you’re feuding with Florida, I guess you have to remove as many state references as you can and “generic” the place up.

 

[Goofyernmost]

More excellent points. I haven't sold my shares, yet...lol. I think as we get older and the kids are grown and we're not running to get on rides, it will be worth revisiting Disney to just walk around and enjoy the environment and seek out the good food (no more dessert parties). And hopefully by that point Epcot will still retain some of what Walt envisioned. We stayed at GF before but felt too young for it, so maybe it'll be a better fit in a few years.

Not wanting to burst your bubble, but Walt never envisioned the Epcot that was built. He envisioned an actual city, not a theme park. The only thing that he had planned other then the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow was the Magic Kingdom. Epcot was more a tribute, imagined and built by the imagineers after both Walt and Roy were gone and named it after Walt's dream.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I was specifically referring to the fact that more goes into deciding whether or not people will go to WDW today than in the past, and in many cases the cons are winning. I did not say that they win in every case, and many people do not weigh them at all because, as you say, they are unaware of their existence.

I also do not have the numbers on new versus repeat guests. There are many famous places I've visited over the years that were on my bucket list but have been "one and done" trips due to crowds, admission prices, and entrance procedures, while I would gladly go back to others. Millions still flock to these places, but I don't know how many make repeat visits.

I think WDW might have more people that feel welcomed at WDW than ever.. and that is a big pro.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

From my last trip in 2018 Disney still provided that aura that I experienced my whole life. I am not sure if the corners they cut during the pandemic will make it noticeable for me next time, but we'll see. I didn't ask for Disney to be shut down, I knew it was a bad idea right back in 2020, but the funny thing is there are so many people who demanded it be shut down that couldn't foresee that this is still a business and shutting it down for as long as they did will have long term ramifications. I can at least say I never supported it right from the get go and knew of these consequences.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Please cite examples of Disney's "woke" posturing in Walt Disney World. I share your political sensibilities, and Disney can be extremely heavy handed in their public statements, ESPN, and their media properties. But I just don't see it penetrating the parks like you're describing, at least not any worse than it's always been. Circle of Life: An Environmental Fable and Ellen's Energy Adventure were scolding guests about global warming since 1996.

I agree. I don't see the wokeness in the parks. Spend a minute and watch the Disney Channel, and yikes, oh yeah. But in the parks? I don't see it. Or haven't at least and I am pretty perceptive. I think the overall family experience still wins out in the end, and I think even a woke company knows that this is where their bread is buttered. Splash Mountain's announcement was foolish, if they ever end up going through with it, so there is that when it comes to wokeness. Again, if it happens. And there is the odd moron who wants to (ahem) "modernize" Frontierland. Which means they really don't get it in the first place.

It won't be a happy day when I realize the preaching and indoctrination reaches the parks and noticeably affects the sort of experience you can have there, but I haven't seen it yet.

 

[coachb]

We made the call tonight to not book what we had been planning on being our next trip. It’s for all the reasons you said. It’s sad. I wish it would change.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I’m a Disney fan. I’ve been to WDW more than 30 times. I’m a shareholder. I’m the guy friends turn to when they plan trips.

But I’m pretty much done with Disney for a while.

I’m old enough to remember when IP wasn’t smeared across EPCOT. When on-property hotels were both specially themed places and affordable for a family of four. When Extra Magic Hours were, you know, actual hours. When Disney didn’t charge you to park at their hotels. When they picked you up and dropped you off at the airport, and the price of that service was baked into the cost of your stay. When you didn’t have to pay for FastPass. When you got MagicBands. When tickets for special events didn’t run you hundreds of dollars. When you’d never see a burned out light bulb on the facades of the Main Street USA shops, and when the insides of those shops were filled with unique items (like the magic shop). When all of the boutiques inside the EPCOT pavilions had unique and cool items from the countries they represented.

I remember a time when you could immerse yourself in the bubble and forget about the world that went on outside that bubble. It seemed that Disney corporate leadership worked hard to create and maintain that bubble, too.

But those days are long gone, and probably won’t return.

I get that the parks have to adapt to modern guest sensibilities. I get Disney is a moneymaking business.

But what I don’t get is how or why Disney has sucked the magic out of what used to be a special place.

Gone is the importance of the guest experience. Here is the new Disney, a woke corporation that will add their intellectual property to anything and everything, who will burst the bubble of fantasy with the preachiness, posturing, and lecturing of every other modern corporation, and who will charge you hundreds and thousands of dollars for the privilege.

Like sports leagues did to their games, Disney is ruining their products by letting their new corporate ideology permeate the way they operate their parks. Just as I watched a pro football game to escape from the crushing weight of the news, I would go to Disney to enter that bubble of fantasy. But as far as I can tell, that bubble burst and has been replaced by a greedy, unimaginative corporate landscape.

I’m scheduled to next visit Disney World in December. It’s going to be my last trip for a while. I’m showing my dissatisfaction with their woke-profiteering-first, improved-guest-experience-last attitude by taking my dollars elsewhere. If friends weren’t traveling a great distance to meet us there, I’d have already cancelled the trip.

Disney World used to be a magical place. It’s not anymore. It’s a mashup of politically correct profiteering coated with a veneer of intellectual property. And I can’t - and won’t - support it anymore.

I’m sorry the bubble has been burst for you.

Speaking for myself - we went in January, first time since COVID, with masks. Disney remains one of the few places I can take my child (who has multiple disabilities), and truly be able to escape the real world and not have to worry about anything while we are there. and I say the same about our January trip, even with the masks. I still felt like I left life behind for a week. It was a magical, fun filled, relaxing week. And we even stayed off site this time, in a vacation home, which we’ve never done before - we’ve always been physically in the bubble. I slept better than I have in well over a year. My jaw/chin finally didn’t ache from the unconscious tension held in it from every day stress. I didn’t for one moment think about politics - Disney’s, or the mess in my home state. My child’s needs were met without issue everywhere we went. We all had a *blast*.

It. Was. Glorious.

(And I’ve experienced “the old” WDW as well. I’m not overlooking the changes - I see them, and agree with some, disagree with others - some strongly (like genie+). But the magic and ability to get lost in the fantasy is absolutely still there).

 

[Ayla]

LOL, did you read the thread on the Starcruiser before it opened?

Most on that thread just about insisted that halfway through the first cruise everyone would revolt and they'd have to close up, refund everyones money and turn the building into storage.

It didn't quite turn out that way.

There is a *ton* of availability if you're interested in the Starcruiser.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I'm just gonna say this. Many amusement parks are not what they used to be. I took my family to Hershey Park last year. Food was more expensive than WDW, parking was $20. They had a pay to play system if you wanted to skip lines, and I believe the park was oversold on the weekends because the lines one day were so ridiculous we literally just went to their zoo and left.