Movement for the Death of FASTPASS

[tizzo]

My point was that when you arrive at the FP Distribution Point, you don't get to choose what time your FP will be for.

Understood, but then what you're effectively saying is that the actual system, working as intended, and the benefits it was designed to provide, are less important than you being able to make use of the FP that the machine happens to be distributing at the moment even if you are otherwise engaged during the window being offered.

My point was that you do get to choose whether to take the FP that is being offered at the time, and that ought to be enough.

 

[Tom]

Most likely it stopped being enforced because not enforcing it wasn't a problem. The problem now is that, since it hasn't been enforced for so long, suddenly beginning to enforce it poses problems of it's own. It has been a while, but I've seen guests become very angry with castmembers trying to enforce the end of the return window - for obvious reasons.

That pretty much sums up what I was trying to say

There was a policy in place to enforce the times. But selfish guests bitched when they irresponsibly came back after the CLEARLY printed Return Time.

So, instead of standing firm and keeping the system in working order, all levels (CM to Mgmt to Guest Services) caved and said, "Aww, ok, just this one" a few hundred thousand times - and it thus became an unenforceable rule.

 

[MEyeSeeKayEY]

Stop arguing with these idiots. It's pointless.
If they want to wait in the stand by line all day becuase they are too stupid and or subborn to take advantage of the FASTPASS system, then GREAT! That's one less person in front of me in the FP line...

 

[Monty]

Understood, but then what you're effectively saying is that the actual system, working as intended, and the benefits it was designed to provide, are less important than you being able to make use of the FP that the machine happens to be distributing at the moment even if you are otherwise engaged during the window being offered.

My point was that you do get to choose whether to take the FP that is being offered at the time, and that ought to be enough.

Not at all. What I'm saying is Disney wisely recognises that because it is impossible for a guest to predetermine what window will be available before they arrive at the FP Distribution Point, they will grant them use of the FP they get at a time after the fixed window. Thus keeping guests happy.

If I book Le Cellier 180+ days in advance and trek across the park to get a Soarin' FP only to find that the current FP times being distributed start 20 minutes before I'm scheduled to show up for my ADR, Disney accommodates that.

If I have 30 minutes before my FP window at Soarin' starts and I go into the Test Track standby line that has a posted wait of 50 minutes [which would easily allow enough time to get back to Soarin' within my allotted window] and the line actually take 80 minutes to progress through and another few to ride so suddenly I'm outside my window when I get to Soarin', Disney accommodates that.

Thankfully, Disney is much more reasonable than you are. :shrug:

 

[stlbobby]

Not at all. What I'm saying is Disney wisely recognises that because it is impossible for a guest to predetermine what window will be available before they arrive at the FP Distribution Point, they will grant them use of the FP they get at a time after the fixed window. Thus keeping guests happy.

If I book Le Cellier 180+ days in advance and trek across the park to get a Soarin' FP only to find that the current FP times being distributed start 20 minutes before I'm scheduled to show up for my ADR, Disney accommodates that.

If I have 30 minutes before my FP window at Soarin' starts and I go into the Test TRack standby line that has a posted wait of 50 minutes [which would easily allow enough time to get back to Soarin' within my allotted window] and the line actually take 80 minutes to progress through and another few to ride so suddenly I'm outside my window when I get to Soarin', Disney accommodates that.

Thankfully, Disney is much more reasonable than you are. :shrug:

You are correct. The only reason the ending time is placed on the FP is to prevent egregious abuse--such as trying to use a pass several days later--not about controlling flow. They have to take into account that a day at the parks is wildly unpredictable and accommodate for that.

I actually remember getting FP's with 5 minute return windows, does anyone really think they intended guests to be able to get back in that exact time frame?

I was at WDW with-in 45 days of FP's premiere and the CM's said at that time the return times were not binding and they were good all day. It wasn't a reaction to acquiesce to complaints it was always the intended policy based on the fact that it only makes sense.

 

[stlbobby]

I asked this on a different thread and I think applies here also.

Would the people that are bothered by accepting late FP's not be bothered if the FP's didn't have an ending time printed on them?

 

[Grove St. 805]

In theory, the FASTPASS system works. Guests use their park tickets to make a reservation for a return time (in the form of a ticket known as a FASTPASS), which guarantees them a short wait time of 10-20 minutes.

However, at the most popular attractions (like Toy Story Midway Mania or Soarin'), these FASTPASSes just plain run out, sometimes before noon. Then, for the rest of the day, other guests feel cheated because they didn't have the opportunity to get a FASTPASS before they were gone.

The FASTPASS is also responsible for those insane Standby wait times. Because FASTPASS has priority, the Standby line is held while a certain number FASTPASS guests move forward through the line. Then, a much smaller number of Standby move forward. Then, a much larger number of FASTPASS move forward, and so forth. The ratio allows so that FASTPASS has a much shorter wait time than Standby... which results in a much longer wait for Standby.

If there was no FASTPASS, the Standby line would continue moving and the wait time would be significantly less. Thus, every guest is a VIP and has the same wait time, rather than some guests leaving with the feeling that they are not so much of a priority as those with a FASTPASS.

I don't think this is fair. I think it causes more problems than it solves. I think it works for shows like Finding Nemo the Musical and Indiana Jones because both sets of guests enter the theater at the same time. One line isn't held while the other goes through. When it comes to attractions, however, it just isn't the most effective way to handle a line.

What do you guys think? Wouldn't the removal of FASTPASS make the system more fair?

Theres no reason to remove fastpass and I feel that its very convenient. You can get a ticket to one of your favorite rides and do other things that you want to do while waiting for your fastpass time. I think if you plan out how to use the fastpass, you dont find yourself whining about it.

 

[tizzo]

I asked this on a different thread and I think applies here also.

Would the people that are bothered by accepting late FP's not be bothered if the FP's didn't have an ending time printed on them?

I'm not exactly bothered by Disney accepting late FPs. But I am bothered by people complaining when Disney refuses to accept them. Not that they do that anymore. But when they were enforcing it, they were getting groups of guests blocking the FP entrance because they were arguing with the cast member. Noone to blame there but the guests.

Also, to the extent that FP creates problems with standby times (which as I said earlier is not anything I've ever observed), those problems can be attributed to the failure to enforce the end of the FP window.

Actually, I guess my attitude is that if they don't intend to enforce both ends of the window, then they ought not print the end time on the ticket. I understand why they do it - because they have no interest in enforcing it, but they do want people to return to the FP line in a relatively evenly distributed manner, and by printing what amounts to an "expiration" time, enough "rule-followers" will comply that they will meet the goal of evening out the distribution without actually having to enforce it.

If that's the real motivation, then I guess I don't care for the implication that if anyone can really be said to benefit from the lack of enforcement, it would be those brash enough to ignore the expiration time (excluding of course those like Monty who bothered to ask rather than just flouting the rules). But the benefit to be derived from not observing the return time is so minuscule that I can't really bring myself to get upset about it.

My bottom line is, what is the effect on the guest's (IE my) experience? And the answer is pretty much none. I've known for years that they don't enforce the return time, and I find myself neither taking advantage of that fact, nor stewing over the fact that others are doing so. If they were to go back to enforcing return times, things could only get worse. And if they believe the system would break down if they were to stop printing an expiration time, then I'm willing to take their word for it (so I guess I'm contradicting myself).

What I'd really like them to figure out is some way to stop people whose FPs aren't open yet from congregating around the FP entrance, blocking others from entering while they wait for their window to open. That is a far greater problem in my opinion than people returning after their FP has closed.

 

[powlessfamily4]

Ahhh the FP a love / hate relationship..... you love them when you have one.... you hate them when you don't.....

 

[Monty]

What I'd really like them to figure out is some way to stop people whose FPs aren't open yet from congregating around the FP entrance, blocking others from entering while they wait for their window to open. That is a far greater problem in my opinion than people returning after their FP has closed.

Now here's where we agree 100%!!!! :lol:

Fortunately, I'm 6'4" and 260-ish... The 'congregation' tends to part like the Red Sea when I bellow! :lookaroun

 

[David S.]

One thing I would say is that, what you've heard from cast members notwithstanding, your FP says on it in black and white that you are guaranteed entrance to the FP queue if and only if you return after the start and before the end of your window. If it ever happens - and it may not - that you return to an attraction after your window has closed and are told you cannot enter, I would hope that you would respect the word of that cast member and quietly walk away. Complain at guest services if you feel you must, but don't hold up the line for the rest of us holding valid FPs.

That is not completely true. On the back, the rules only say it cannot be accepted EARLY and can only be used on the date provided. NOWHERE does it say it can't be accepted "late". And it's not just CM's who have told me they can be used anytime before closing, after the first time. MANAGERS have told me that as well. Did you watch the video on YouTube (I posted a link) of the stormtroopers at SW weekends saying they are good anytime before park closing? My "late" FPs are just as "valid" as your "on time" ones! Understand that when I use a FP "late", it is not to "brashly defy the rules". From the very first day I used a FP, I was told that using it anytime before closing after the first time listed was ALLOWED by the rules. And every single thing I have observed over literally hundreds of days in the parks since then, supports and reinforces the idea that using them "late", as long as on the date printed, is NOT "breaking the rules".

To answer your question, there is nothing to "complain" at guest services about. I have a 100 percent success rate of using them anytime between the first time printed on the ticket and Park Closing. The only time someone told me it was "expired", I replied (politely) "Either the rules have changed since yesterday, or you may be misinformed." I IMMEDIATELY found another CM and asked if they knew if the rules of being able to use them anytime before closing had changed. The CM said, "No, your pass is still good. The girl working that position right now is on the college program and it's her first day on the job, and probably didn't realize she was supposed to let you in". So this CM went over with me to the FP entry, and got me in with a big smile and "I'm sorry for that mistake, sir!". The girl who originally turned me away was nice and apologetic, too.

So you see, if I would have followed your advice, I would have been screwed out of my ride, but luckilly for me, I don't give up that easily! Going to "guest services" would have taken a lot more time, and would have been completely uneccesary as I was able to get the whole situation resolved in less than a minute! That incident was about 2 or 3 years ago, and nothing like that has ever come close to happening since. (And if it does, I'll be sure and get a second opinion at the ride to make sure it's not just another misinformed CM. One thing you can be confident about though, is I am always extremely polite when questioning CM's about these sort of things, and treat them with respect)

Another time, I was almost turned away from Peter Pan's Flight, but not for being "late". At 10:30 PM, the girl said "I'm sorry sir, but you're a half hour EARLY. Knowing I was "late" I looked at my pass, and realized that she had subconsciously thought it said 11 PM instead of 11 AM! I politely explained this, showed her the pass again, and got the usual perfect, friendly smile and "Sorry about that sir, come right on in!" So I did, and walked right on!

Now, if everyone is done preaching about rules that clearly do not exist (and if they once did, they no longer do), and trying to "criminalize" touring strategies that are perfectly "legal" in the eyes of park managers, I'll get back to enjoying the "Attraction Summer Madness" tournament threads!

PS. EDITED TO ADD - I am not trying to get into an argument with you about this and I hope you don't take my opinions personally. I was finished in this thread and only replied again because you addressed me directly. But the main reason for this "PS" is because I just noticed your signature and wanted to say I am truly sorry about Daisy.

 

[tizzo]

The only time someone told me it was "expired", I replied (politely) "Either the rules have changed since yesterday, or you may be misinformed." I IMMEDIATELY found another CM and asked if they knew if the rules of being able to use them anytime before closing had changed. The CM said, "No, your pass is still good. The girl working that position right now is on the college program and it's her first day on the job, and probably didn't realize she was supposed to let you in". So this CM went over with me to the FP entry, and got me in with a big smile and "I'm sorry for that mistake, sir!". The girl who originally turned me away was nice and apologetic, too.

No more arguing from me, but I highlight this because it's good advice I've received from guest services in the past after complaining about a problem I had with a cast member. Rather than go to guest services, they advised me that if ever I have a dispute with a cast member, I should ask to speak to that cast member's supervisor. The cast member is supposed to get a supervisor to the site without me having to go anywhere, and supervisors are obviously empowered to resolve issues that general cast cannot.

But the main reason for this "PS" is because I just noticed your signature and wanted to say I am truly sorry about Daisy.

I appreciate that. She was a sweet girl and it was very difficult to lose her. She lived to a relatively long and healthy life for a ferret, and didn't suffer too much at the end, and for that we are grateful.

 

[Krack]

Stop arguing with these idiots. It's pointless.
If they want to wait in the stand by line all day becuase they are too stupid and or subborn to take advantage of the FASTPASS system, then GREAT! That's one less person in front of me in the FP line...

Wow, you managed to come to a ten page thread and attack a position that, as far as I can tell, is not advocated once by anyone. Kudos.

 

[tizzo]

That is not completely true. On the back, the rules only say it cannot be accepted EARLY and can only be used on the date provided. NOWHERE does it say it can't be accepted "late". And it's not just CM's who have told me they can be used anytime before closing, after the first time. MANAGERS have told me that as well. Did you watch the video on YouTube (I posted a link) of the stormtroopers at SW weekends saying they are good anytime before park closing? My "late" FPs are just as "valid" as your "on time" ones! Understand that when I use a FP "late", it is not to "brashly defy the rules". From the very first day I used a FP, I was told that using it anytime before closing after the first time listed was ALLOWED by the rules. And every single thing I have observed over literally hundreds of days in the parks since then, supports and reinforces the idea that using them "late", as long as on the date printed, is NOT "breaking the rules".

Couple more points (not arguments - like I said, no more arguing from me :animwink:

First, in my post about brashness, I specifically excluded those "like Monty" from this description. I excluded Monty because, like you, he asked and followed what he was told rather than "brashly" ignoring what his FP says. I was actually responding to another poster who made the suggestion that Disney really wants everyone to adhere to the printed window but is happy if only those willing to do so voluntarily comply and therefore they do not enforce it. In that context, the direct intent is to allow the few willing to do so to use their passes late as long as the majority willingly stick to both ends of the window. And in that context, the only people who would come back late would be those like you who have been told it's OK to ignore the end of the window (I'll call you the super-informed); the opposite end of the spectrum who don't even see that there are two times printed on the ticket (call them the underinformed), and those who, reading the ticket and reasonably determining that they are supposed to be back before the window closes decide to ignore that particular direction and return late (importantly, without believing it is OK to do so). It is that last group, not you, that I was referring to as "brash". (And as much time as you've spent in the parks, you know as well as I do, they are out there).

Second, though I did not get a chance to watch the video, I get the gist of it, and my only response is - considering the role that Storm Troopers play in the Star Wars universe - can you make room for the possibility that having them say something is OK may have been intended as the opposite of an endorsement of the practice?

And finally, my only point about the complaining was that, what you've been told notwithstanding - even if it had come from Bob Iger himself - the return window closing time is not enforced because enforcing it does not suit Disney at this time. If the time should come when it does suit them, as I know first hand it has at least once in the past, there is nothing printed on the ticket, front or back, to prevent them from turning away guests whose return window has closed. That the rules on the back reinforce the fact that it can't be used early does not alter the fact that the front of the FP does in fact say "return between X and Y".

Anyhow, don't want to degenerate into a discussion over semantics. I don't have a problem with you using your FP late, even if you had not been told that it was OK to do so. I just think that forewarned is forearmed, and just because something was true yesterday doesn't mean it will be true tomorrow. Disney has left themselves wiggle room in the implementation of return windows, that's the bottom line, and I'd hate to see you (or someone else on perhaps their one and only trip to WDW and acting on advice they received here) have their experience ruined or just degraded because Disney decided that particular time to exercise the option to turn away late returning FP holders. For me (and I assume for you?) if I don't get on SM today because I came back too late with my FP, I'll just go on it next weekend instead. Not everyone has that luxury.

 

[David S.]

Second, though I did not get a chance to watch the video, I get the gist of it, and my only response is - considering the role that Storm Troopers play in the Star Wars universe - can you make room for the possibility that having them say something is OK may have been intended as the opposite of an endorsement of the practice?

I wondered that too at first, but I honestly think that may be reading too much into it. If it was meant to mean the opposite and wasn't true, it could still give people the wrong idea, which I would think Disney would want to avoid.

Also, while the stormtroopers do serve the Emperor, they are still seen as enforcers of the "rules", and in fact in that preshow have traditionally been used to tell people "move all the way down, no stopping in the middle". You know, kind of what the Cast Members have to do in regular attractions. I don't think in that context that Disney would be OK with them stating that the FPs are good anytime before closing, as long as it's after the first time, unless that really was the policy. Literally, I could buy next years Annual Pass right now if I had 10 bucks for every time I've heard a CM tell someone that, or was told that myself - and I'd still have money left over!

In all honesty, I had no idea that coming "late", as long as you go on the same date, was even an issue at all until I saw a few complaints about the practice on fan-based message boards. But since the vibe I've gotten from the parks has always been very permissive and very tolerant, by the time I read those threads the idea of "lateness" being acceptable had already become so ingrained in my consciousness that I felt no need to change or feel guilty about it.

What you say about being prepared that the policy could change at some point in the future is good advice. Subconsciously, that's probably why I try to ask from time to time about this (especially if it's a day I think there's a good chance I'll be using one "late"). That is also why I've been told so much that the "lateness" is OK, because every time I've ever asked, that was the answer (which of course further reinforces the idea!)

(If you do want to see the stormtrooper video in question, the FP references begin at around the 1:55 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C1KJS3aOtQ )

For me (and I assume for you?) if I don't get on SM today because I came back too late with my FP, I'll just go on it next weekend instead.

Sort of. I've been blessed to be able to live in the area "seasonally" for a few years. So that's been true for me in the colder months of the year, and not true for me right now. Hence spending my free time watching my park DVDs, listening to the CDs, and reading my Disney theme park books, websites, and message boards to "tide me over" until I get back. It's funny, usually in the summer I focus more on other interests, but that special weekend trip I made a few weeks ago to see MSEP for the first time in 20 years made me high as a kite, and I haven't come down since!

No more arguing from me, but I highlight this because it's good advice I've received from guest services in the past after complaining about a problem I had with a cast member. Rather than go to guest services, they advised me that if ever I have a dispute with a cast member, I should ask to speak to that cast member's supervisor. The cast member is supposed to get a supervisor to the site without me having to go anywhere, and supervisors are obviously empowered to resolve issues that general cast cannot.

That is good advice. If there is ever a serious problem, I'll have to remember that. In the particular case I referred to, I don't feel it was necessary, as it was just an honest mistake and it was able to be resolved very quickly without getting a supervisor involved. The last thing I want to do is get someone in trouble. I've been fortunate in that most of the CM's I've come into contact with have been fantastic! Some have been absolute angels, and there have been some that did inspire me to go to guest relations - to put in a GOOD word for them!

I appreciate that. She was a sweet girl and it was very difficult to lose her. She lived to a relatively long and healthy life for a ferret, and didn't suffer too much at the end, and for that we are grateful.

Is that her in your Avatar? She's beautiful. I love animals very much and I truly believe that the pets we lose will be waiting for us in Heaven.

 

[Hrudey3032]

Now here's where we agree 100%!!!! :lol:

Fortunately, I'm 6'4" and 260-ish... The 'congregation' tends to part like the Red Sea when I bellow! :lookaroun

I have that same reaction when people block a path. I am 6-1 330 and have that bouncer look but in all honesty I always try to be polite and even when they move I always still try to use excuse me and thank you to show gratitude.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

The management think you are obstructing the Fastpass entrance. We dont like obstructions do we Ron?

 

[Hrudey3032]

The management think you are obstructing the Fastpass entrance. We dont like obstructions do we Ron?

Maybe we can get Hans and Franz from Cranium Command to take care of things

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Or the devil dolls from IASW, they will strike fear into the heart of even the biggest line blocker.

 

[Hrudey3032]

Or the devil dolls from IASW, they will strike fear into the heart of even the biggest line blocker.

Don't even joke about those who should not be named :lookaroun