Mousetrapped 2010

[Shannon_Yensid]

This comment has me scratching my head. Are you sure you aren't confusing a deluxe hotel concierge for the kid driving a raft over to Tom Sawyer Island? :veryconfu

I have never had a Disney concierge turn down a gratuity from me. Nor have they ever put up an attempted defensive maneuver when I present the tip to them. Any time I have stayed in a Concierge level room, most recently at the Grand Californian Hotel, but also at WDW properties in recent years, I have given the concierge a tip of at least 20 dollars and up to 50 dollars depending on the amount of work they did in securing reservations and help at my specific request. Any Disney concierge I have ever worked with has accepted the tip just as naturally and gracefully as a concierge in any Hilton or Ritz-Carlton or any big hotel that offers concierge services. And the money given to the Disney concierge went into their pockets quickly, not into some tip jar on their desk.

Similarly, I have never had a Disney bellhop or waiter or bartender decline a tip from me on Disney property. Now certainly, if I tried to tip a Jungle Cruise Skipper (which I wouldn't obviously, as that would be weird), I would expect them to politely decline it. But having a Disney concierge or waiter or bellhop decline a tip??? Those folks have never declined my tips in the past few decades I've been visiting Disney hotels and restaurants.

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I am 110% sure concierge are a non tipped position and therefore cannot accept tips. I know this because I am one. In club level locations where management is less likely to see the tipping, a lot of cast members will keep it. Because lets face it, who likes to say no to free money. But yes, we are supposed to turn them down politely and if that is unsuccessful we are to turn the tips in to our managers. Disney Concierge and Ritz-Carlton Concierge are two different things, a good Ritz concierge will have connections at the hottest places and can get you in, they can do special things that merit tips, for Disney it's all considered part of the job and we are expected to provide that same high level of service to all guests regardless of if they want to tip or not. I have seen cast members working in non-tipped positions get fired for accepting tips and not turning them in. Of course, tip your servers, bellmen and bartenders because they ARE working in tipped positions and that is a big part of their income.

 

[ExCM]

Similarly, I have never had a Disney bellhop or waiter or bartender decline a tip from me on Disney property. Now certainly, if I tried to tip a Jungle Cruise Skipper (which I wouldn't obviously, as that would be weird), I would expect them to politely decline it. But having a Disney concierge or waiter or bellhop decline a tip??? Those folks have never declined my tips in the past few decades I've been visiting Disney hotels and restaurants.

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You won't find a bellman, waiter, or bartender who will turn down a tip. Those positions, along with valet parking attendant are the only tipped jobs at WDW. The hourly wage for a bellman is $4.30.

 

[Alektronic]

Everyone is complaining about "THE" union, when in fact, there is over 20 different unions at Disney. They are not all the same or act all the same.

The BIG problem is bad management, if there is good management, there should be no need for a union. But when management tries to take unfair advantage of it's workers, then it is easier to negotiate as one big group. And when someone says all unions are evil, a union is the sum of all its members, so if an union has 2,000 members then they are all evil because they want better pay and benefits?

 

[TP2000]

I am 110% sure concierge are a non tipped position and therefore cannot accept tips. I know this because I am one. In club level locations where management is less likely to see the tipping, a lot of cast members will keep it. Because lets face it, who likes to say no to free money.

Fascinating!

I've stayed in primarily club level rooms at WDW for the past decade or so, including a few stays at the Grand Californian since it opened in '01, and I have never had the concierge decline a tip. It was always taken quickly, smoothly, and with a smile. They clearly knew what they were doing.

Tipping a concierge who provided that service is a widely accepted common practice in America and Europe. How on earth would the average tourist know that you are supposed to tip the concierge at the Gaylord Palms but not at the Grand Floridian? And it's now hilarious that the last concierge at the Grand Floridian so easily and smoothly accepted my last tip for getting a that-day spa reservation (if I remember it correctly), without so much as a peep like "Oh, please sir, that's not neccesary. I am just happy to make your stay at Disney World a pleasant one."

I extended the tip discreetly, and it was a smooth smile and a "Thank you sir" as it went into her palm and disappeared from view. :lol:

So I should stop tipping the concierges when staying on Disney property? Something tells me the follow-up smiles and top service I recieve won't be quite as warm and inviting when I ask for my first request and don't extend a gratuity.

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[ChrisFL]

ok, understandable, not fair, but understandable. Maybe you could better explain to me why bus drivers are starting at $11+/hr while other transportation(monorail/watercraft) CMs start at $7.90

I know this is far out there (maybe not?) What do you all think would happen if a certain CM role where to go on strike. Like custodial, or merch/transportation. Is that even possible? would we just get fired? would anything come of it? would it make the news..? Is this something that would even warrant a strike or just be laughed at..?

I believe because Bus Drivers require other licensing and things, though I could be wrong about watercraft, they might need similar things...Monorail drivers do not need more than a regular drivers license.

 

[raven]

With all do respect Raven, the point MSUSA was making about HS grads being able to do the jobs is that you don't need formal higher education to be able to do the work. Any HS grad (and probably some that don't make it through) can do the actual custodial work, personal work ethic aside. There are many college grads and manner people in management of companies (my own included) that shouldn't be where they are today if that kind of thing was just based on personal drive and work-ethic. Should some custodial staff get paid more than they do...probably? Is $13.57 an appropriate salary cap....I'm not one to say. Do you do an amazing job with your own tasks/duties, I would probably reckon so judging by other qualities you demonstrate on here. But the point remains that you don't need higher education to do the job, and it doesn't necessarily call for a $15-$20/hr pay-rate. That's not a big-headed statement.

Any high school grad can do most of the front line jobs at Disney. You don't need a higher education for nearly any of them.

So why single out a custodial role? Because it's not very prestigious? Is it a job people look down upon? Say what you want but the debate about the custodial man on the video is "yes."

Every night when we come in other CMs brush by us giving us a dissapproving look. I'm used to that by now. But I'm also happy that I'm not in a role where they feel they have to do that to anyone. Those same CMs are the ones that guests are encountering in the parks. Besides, little do they know, but our starting salery is more than what most of them make after 3 years after raises in their role.

My point was that the younger CMs that have come to my department can't handle the responsibilities and are usually gone or transfer out quickly. That alone tells you the job is more work than what they expect. But it's also one of the only roles where they are always hiring full-time continually. Whether the park has 4 guests that day or 40,000 it still needs to be scoured down and detailed every night. Such a demanding job is more than some people can take.

Ever been to WDW for a marathon? Time how short it takes from the last runner until the roads are open for the public to drive on. There is a massive caravan of 3rd shift custodial workers with trucks, pickers and hoses that come behind and clean even the tiniest piece of trash and clothing off the road when all have passed. On New Years Eve when there are 60,000 guests at Epcot the park opens on time the next morning with no clue of what went on the night before. It's the things like this that are often unnoticed by guests and other CMs.

 

[jakeman]

I don't think anyone is intentionally singling out custodial. It just happen to be the example.

I know I my time at Disney I enjoyed our custodial staff and was a little jealous of the amount of guest interaction they got.

While custodial may be the example used, I think it is what you said about most of the front line job at Disney.

I do have a question. Is third shift custodial a different position than the ones that are visible during park ours? For example, could a "day" custodian get abruptly shifted to night?

 

[devoy1701]

Any high school grad can do most of the front line jobs at Disney. You don't need a higher education for nearly any of them.

So why single out a custodial role? Because it's not very prestigious? Is it a job people look down upon? Say what you want but the debate about the custodial man on the video is "yes."

Every night when we come in other CMs brush by us giving us a dissapproving look. I'm used to that by now. But I'm also happy that I'm not in a role where they feel they have to do that to anyone. Those same CMs are the ones that guests are encountering in the parks. Besides, little do they know, but our starting salery is more than what most of them make after 3 years after raises in their role.

My point was that the younger CMs that have come to my department can't handle the responsibilities and are usually gone or transfer out quickly. That alone tells you the job is more work than what they expect. But it's also one of the only roles where they are always hiring full-time continually. Whether the park has 4 guests that day or 40,000 it still needs to be scoured down and detailed every night. Such a demanding job is more than some people can take.

Ever been to WDW for a marathon? Time how short it takes from the last runner until the roads are open for the public to drive on. There is a massive caravan of 3rd shift custodial workers with trucks, pickers and hoses that come behind and clean even the tiniest piece of trash and clothing off the road when all have passed. On New Years Eve when there are 60,000 guests at Epcot the park opens on time the next morning with no clue of what went on the night before. It's the things like this that are often unnoticed by guests and other CMs.

I think the custodial position was singled out solely because it was in the youtube video as well and it's been continually talked about throughout the thread. But you are correct, there aren't many front-line positions (if any) that require higher education, and because of which, not many (if any) that should demand a pay of $15-$20 an hour.

 

[raven]

I do have a question. Is third shift custodial a different position than the ones that are visible during park ours? For example, could a "day" custodian get abruptly shifted to night?

Not unless they choose it themselves. It is actually a different department all together called Support Sevices. They have CMs that work days as well but are backstage. Support Services have much larger duties and a wide range of work they are responsible for.

 

[raven]

I think the custodial position was singled out solely because it was in the youtube video as well and it's been continually talked about throughout the thread. But you are correct, there aren't many front-line positions (if any) that require higher education, and because of which, not many (if any) that should demand a pay of $15-$20 an hour.

That's because the union that made the video is the only one that largely represents custodial. Some other union negotiations at Disney that represent other roles got what they wanted.

 

[RobGraves]

Fascinating!

I've stayed in primarily club level rooms at WDW for the past decade or so, including a few stays at the Grand Californian since it opened in '01, and I have never had the concierge decline a tip. It was always taken quickly, smoothly, and with a smile. They clearly knew what they were doing.

Tipping a concierge who provided that service is a widely accepted common practice in America and Europe. How on earth would the average tourist know that you are supposed to tip the concierge at the Gaylord Palms but not at the Grand Floridian? And it's now hilarious that the last concierge at the Grand Floridian so easily and smoothly accepted my last tip for getting a that-day spa reservation (if I remember it correctly), without so much as a peep like "Oh, please sir, that's not neccesary. I am just happy to make your stay at Disney World a pleasant one."

I extended the tip discreetly, and it was a smooth smile and a "Thank you sir" as it went into her palm and disappeared from view. :lol:

So I should stop tipping the concierges when staying on Disney property? Something tells me the follow-up smiles and top service I recieve won't be quite as warm and inviting when I ask for my first request and don't extend a gratuity.

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so you are encouraging them to violate company policy to get paid?

and how do you know that when you did give it to them they didnt do as they are told and turn it into a manger?

did you know that disney also has management "shop" hotels and other places in the park, and do things like tip a non tipped to see what happens and if the person accepts and doesnt turn it in they get fired?

Heres a fun story: on several occasions at grand floridian, the concierge managers would take the money for the "tip jar" and hold the pizza parties like they would normally do... but it would be only for the managers.

 

[TheBeatles]

I've known many high school grads who CANNOT do the work that is required of a WDW job.

It's not my place to say what/who deserves to make what, but I am qualified to comment on the hard work CMs put in.

Having to appear neat, all-knowing, perfect, and professional to everyone at all times is tough. It's especially tough for my friends who do it 50-60 hours every week. CMs go through a lot-- in every role-- and to say that anyone can do it is not fair.

I don't want to discuss unions/wages/ and who is deserving, but I will always discuss how important the people are at Disney.

Making fantasy a reality 24/7 requires a lot of work by everyone.

 

[Random Vids Inc]

Ok guys, a capped salary is not the only thing the union is going after. You guys would be great for the Disney legal team. You're making it hard not to agree with you! I agree somewhat about the salary cap, and at a certain point, you're not gonna make $20/hr being a custodian. But what about the new people that start at less than $8/hr and takes them 3-4years just to make $9/$10 hr? How is it that the guy that took your mcdonalds order is getting paid more than the monorail pilot with 300+ guests on his train? or the people loading your family on RnR? Disney expects A LOT from their CM's and don't pay accordingly. They expect long hours, low pay, high responsibility. It is impossible to make a living working any front line job at disney. Next time you go through the turnstyles, buy something in a gift shop, sit down and eat, check in at your hotel, get on a monorail/boat/train, get on any attraction or show, just remember those people are all poor.

If you want to make that kind of money then you should've went to college! That's all I have to say. Don't expect so much from a low entry job that doesn't require education? I mean in all honestly who has ever thought that a theme park would be a great place to find a great paying job!

 

[Main Street USA]

Saying that my job is nothing more than a high school grad can do is simply a big-headed statement and I am offended by you once again.

For your information HS grads have come into our department many times and never last past their 90 days. They are either too lazy to do actual work or the get fired for attendence or poor job performance....even sleeping.

Don't act like you know everything that custodial does because you don't. You simply see those custodial CM's walking around the park in white costumes with a pan and broom. They do "up keep" cleaning but still worth more than what they get. I do "deep cleaning" meaning the entire park gets scrubbed down, top to bottom, inside and out in many ways no guest, or even other CMs can begin to imagine. The work we do every night other theame parks do at the start and end of their season.

When the parks open in the morning there is no evidence that thousands of guests were just there a few hours earlier. It takes much more than a broom and windex for that.

Wish I could stay at the Grand Floridian like you but I guess your job pays you enough to do that. That alone makes your comments sound even more snooty.

Wow, you need to look in the mirror. I'm snooty for staying at the Grand Floridian? I'm supposed to feel bad for being able to afford it? You don't even know why I can afford it. Maybe I went to school and worked my butt off in order to have a career that pays me well, or maybe I saved for 10 years on about what you make as a custodian. It doesn't really matter. It isn't your business, and I choose not to share those details with you. The things I said were in no way meant to paint you in any way, but it seems YOU have a problem with what you do in your own head. Seems you might need to work that out on your own. You immediately take every word in the worst possible way, and skip all of the words that set you apart from an average worker.

Whatever. Good luck getting your raise.

 

[Main Street USA]

Any high school grad can do most of the front line jobs at Disney. You don't need a higher education for nearly any of them.

So why single out a custodial role? Because it's not very prestigious? Is it a job people look down upon?

No one singled out a custodial role, it's the main topic of conversation because the individual in the original story was a custodian, and they quoted his wage. Really, I think it's in your head. I haven't seen ONE person in this thread talk down to custodians, or you. You just immediately get defensive when anyone mentions the position. That's a little strange, no?

 

[Skipper Dan]

All I could think to say is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly1al4K3u2M

 

[rct247]

A job working in a theme park was never meant to be a job that would support a family of 4 to live comfortably in my opinion. The true benefit of working for Disney is the magic you get to make and the things you get to experience ...on a daily basis that some people dream of getting to experience.

As a cast member, sure, I'd love to be paid more, but I understand that my work is basic work that doesn't require a degree. If these employees love working at Disney and being part of the magic, they'd share these thoughts. If you want more pay, work somewhere else in a position that requires more skill, and if you don't have the skill, take some classes and pursue it.

On another side note, I have also worked custodial and some custodians at Disney, including myself do have degrees and could go elsewhere, but they do take pride in their job. Any job at Disney isn't easy because of the expectations and the guests that test the nerves of anyone. I don't believe cast members should always remain at minimum wage, but like many have stated before, $15 an hour...even at 10, 15, 20 years with the company is a bit much. The true payback does come in the smiles and magical moments (even if the negative guest situations often are remembered the most). Cast members get to experience world class theme park for free when families save up years just to spend 4 days! It's all in how you look at it.

If I want to use my degree and get paid more, I'll find another job, until then, I will continue living my dream.

 

[yensid67]

Just a Dreamer?

It was 1998 in Pennsylvania, a young man had the philosophy in him to WANT to make others dreams come true, He decided to work for the greatest company in the world, in order to put his philosophy to use. He uprooted his life and moved. He began putting his philosophy to work and was happy on the inside, proud of himself and was very proud of his company and to be working there. His family was proud of him as well!
The time came for the annual raises and this DREAMER was compensated a mere five cent raise for all of his hard work making the dreams of others a reality, thus reflecting back onto the company as a whole entity. How disappointed he felt with a mere five cent raise, BUT he kept going back and making dreams come true for millions of guests over his years of service. He finally got discouraged and decided to quit to find another DECENT paying job, this time as an assistant manager of a Gas Station/Convenience Store. He left his dream job to become something that he could do back home and to make more money. He soon got discouraged with being an assistant manager, since it was a job he could do anywhere, that he went back to the company of dreams to do what he loved...to make people happy. He knew that most of these people had saved for years to have just a few days in this place where dreams come true. Although he could get a job somewhere else with higher pay and better benefits, THIS is what he felt he was HERE for! And his life has never been more meaningful!

Not taking sides in this issue, but I know how it feels to work at your DREAM JOB and make others dreams, wishes and fantasies a reality. BUT I also know that the company needs to keep the shareholders happy and turn a profit as well! I wish that Tinker Bell could wave her magic wand and make everyone happy but thats not going to happen. I think Disney needs to come up with a way to constantly keep their CM's happy because granted a Happy guest is the result of a happy experience by a happy Cast Member!

 

[yensid67]

A job working in a theme park was never meant to be a job that would support a family of 4 to live comfortably in my opinion. The true benefit of working for Disney is the magic you get to make and the things you get to experience ...on a daily basis that some people dream of getting to experience.

As a cast member, sure, I'd love to be paid more, but I understand that my work is basic work that doesn't require a degree. If these employees love working at Disney and being part of the magic, they'd share these thoughts. If you want more pay, work somewhere else in a position that requires more skill, and if you don't have the skill, take some classes and pursue it.

On another side note, I have also worked custodial and some custodians at Disney, including myself do have degrees and could go elsewhere, but they do take pride in their job. Any job at Disney isn't easy because of the expectations and the guests that test the nerves of anyone. I don't believe cast members should always remain at minimum wage, but like many have stated before, $15 an hour...even at 10, 15, 20 years with the company is a bit much. The true payback does come in the smiles and magical moments (even if the negative guest situations often are remembered the most). Cast members get to experience world class theme park for free when families save up years just to spend 4 days! It's all in how you look at it.

If I want to use my degree and get paid more, I'll find another job, until then, I will continue living my dream.

Very well said, RCT! I should ahve read your post before I posted mine! LOL:ROFLOL:

 

[draybook]

No one singled out a custodial role, it's the main topic of conversation because the individual in the original story was a custodian, and they quoted his wage. Really, I think it's in your head. I haven't seen ONE person in this thread talk down to custodians, or you. You just immediately get defensive when anyone mentions the position. That's a little strange, no?

Seems like he's getting defensive because it's what he does?

I like how some people claim that it doesn't take any education to do the jobs at WDW. Really? Random Vids Inc, what do you do for a living? Would you be happy if I told you I could come there and do a better job at it within 2 weeks?

And to the guy earlier that was saying "move and find something better". Yes, because if these people can't afford their house payments and are getting handouts from a church, surely they can pull out a wad of cash and just skip all over the US in search of being the next billionaire CEO.

And you guys say there's no education needed to work at WDW. How about you get some education before you come with that condescending attitude towards the people that make your frickin stays at WDW so memorable.




Raven, I've never met you and I might not ever, but thank you. I'm not there to see what you guys do but I know there's always more to most jobs than what people think. Thank you for making the place sparkle and thank you for making it possible for my kids to have great memories of WDW, as I did with DL when I was a child. :wave: