Mousetrapped 2010

[Wilt Dasney]

For all the folks who say most Disney jobs aren't meant to be long-term career positions: Would you really want to go to a park where everyone took that advice to heart?

If every position at Disney was filled with kids fresh out of high school who were treating it as a stepping stone, I think a lot of people would be complaining about how Disney's casting standards have gone out the window.

I don't disagree that the level of education and training needed for these jobs justifies low pay...but the caliber of people Disney prides itself on getting (and people on these forums expect to encounter) pushes back against that.

If you follow this logic, it sounds like Disney is supposed to recruit thousands of people who are expected to be the best of the best in terms of courtesy, guest service and commitment to making "magic" while paying them so little that they naturally move on after 2-3 years, and then turn around and do it all again. How many "Disney quality" people can there be out there to justify that kind of turnover?

In other words, if you really think Disney's frontline CM's should all be getting promoted or leaving the company after a brief sabbatical working on Main Street, then you can't complain when you never see anyone over 18 on Main Street and when you don't get a patented "Have a magical day!" from every one of them.

ETA: Someone mentioned what Universal pays earlier as a defense of Disney's wages. But how many complaints do we read on here about Universal's ostensibly surly/unprofessional/rude employees?

We clearly have a lot of people educated on economic principles here. Maybe someone can explain the economic principle in play behind the idea that Disney should be able to invest the same in human capital as Universal while expecting more in return.

 

[devoy1701]

A job working in a theme park was never meant to be a job that would support a family of 4 to live comfortably in my opinion. The true benefit of working for Disney is the magic you get to make and the things you get to experience ...on a daily basis that some people dream of getting to experience.

As a cast member, sure, I'd love to be paid more, but I understand that my work is basic work that doesn't require a degree. If these employees love working at Disney and being part of the magic, they'd share these thoughts. If you want more pay, work somewhere else in a position that requires more skill, and if you don't have the skill, take some classes and pursue it.

On another side note, I have also worked custodial and some custodians at Disney, including myself do have degrees and could go elsewhere, but they do take pride in their job. Any job at Disney isn't easy because of the expectations and the guests that test the nerves of anyone. I don't believe cast members should always remain at minimum wage, but like many have stated before, $15 an hour...even at 10, 15, 20 years with the company is a bit much. The true payback does come in the smiles and magical moments (even if the negative guest situations often are remembered the most). Cast members get to experience world class theme park for free when families save up years just to spend 4 days! It's all in how you look at it.

If I want to use my degree and get paid more, I'll find another job, until then, I will continue living my dream.

Well said, and very interesting to see this point of view from a CM! :wave:

Seems like he's getting defensive because it's what he does?

I like how some people claim that it doesn't take any education to do the jobs at WDW. Really? Random Vids Inc, what do you do for a living? Would you be happy if I told you I could come there and do a better job at it within 2 weeks?

And to the guy earlier that was saying "move and find something better". Yes, because if these people can't afford their house payments and are getting handouts from a church, surely they can pull out a wad of cash and just skip all over the US in search of being the next billionaire CEO.

And you guys say there's no education needed to work at WDW. How about you get some education before you come with that condescending attitude towards the people that make your frickin stays at WDW so memorable.

So now all the sudden all CMs can't afford house payments and are getting handouts from church? When I was back making $10-$11 an hour I was still able to make it ok... I had an apartment and a roommate and I was more than able to cover my expenses and keep out of finanical trouble. I never took handouts from friends, parents, family, church, the state, etc... It's called fiscal responsibility.

The best time to find a new job anyway is when you are currently employed. I wouldn't recommend anybody leave their job first before they begin seraching for their new "billionare CEO" position.

We aren't being condescending at all....

For all the folks who say most Disney jobs aren't meant to be long-term career positions: Would you really want to go to a park where everyone took that advice to heart?

If every position at Disney was filled with kids fresh out of high school who were treating it as a stepping stone, I think a lot of people would be complaining about how Disney's casting standards have gone out the window.

I don't disagree that the level of education and training needed for these jobs justifies low pay...but the caliber of people Disney prides itself on getting (and people on these forums expect to encounter) pushes back against that.

If you follow this logic, it sounds like Disney is supposed to recruit thousands of people who are expected to be the best of the best in terms of courtesy, guest service and commitment to making "magic" while paying them so little that they naturally move on after 2-3 years, and then turn around and do it all again. How many "Disney quality" people can there be out there to justify that kind of turnover?

In other words, if you really think Disney's frontline CM's should all be getting promoted or leaving the company after a brief sabbatical working on Main Street, then you can't complain when you never see anyone over 18 on Main Street and when you don't get a patented "Have a magical day!" from every one of them.

The front end CM position is still consider the type of job that is a stepping stone for character building or lessons in guest interaction and customer service...like a clerk at a grocery or department store, or hotel staff, etc. It's also a great position for those wanting to get into the hospitality business or get some basic management skills. I wouldn't expect Disney to find new recruits who are all well-rounded people who are the best of the best every year, etc and have the skills necessary that we all expect out of CMs...they help to make those fresh out of high school or new to the workforce people into those well rounded, respectable, skilled, and couteous people.

That's not to say that that's all who should work there...

 

[raven]

I haven't seen ONE person in this thread talk down to custodians...

Really? Let me do a little cut-and-paste for you:

In just reading from the first link above, there are comments from a 17 year veteran custodian who makes "only" $13.57 an hour. How much does he think he should make as a custodian? ... What does he want? $20 an hour for sweeping and cleaning? Never.

Any HS grad can do the actual custodial work, personal work ethic aside.

The whole reason why I started commenting on this thread, Main Street USA, is because of your comment and the union in question involves my wages as well as my coworkers. But why are you making such a deal anyway about it? It isn't your job that we are talking about. So why does this make you want to protest a raise for someone else?

How 'bout this. Next time your employer plans to give you a raise, have them call me. I'll talk them out of it. Because that's what you are trying to do to someone else.

You really haven't looked at the "why" in the situation. Why are they asking for more money? Did you ever think about the commitment that 20-year custodian made to the company? That kind of dedication should be rewarded for someone working for a company that is built on customer service and high standards that other companies copy or strive to achieve.

I don't plan on staying in this role forever. But I'm not fighting just for myself. My coworkers are the ones I feel it most for. A friend I work with will celebrate 35 years with the company next spring. She's worked 2 full-time job for over 20 years. We're not talking about her needing to make $20/hour but shouldn't that kind of dedication reap some kind of extra wage?

The union is simply trying to make the current executives stand up and listen to what Walt Disney said about it's cast members. Can you remember? Read my signature.

 

[Map7711]

The point is that these jobs are meant for second income families-retired people-people in college/high school. By no means that working in a theme park should be considered a job that one person can earn a wage and support a family by itself. There is just no way that the park can pay everyone that much money and stay in business. Will never happen.

 

[Master Yoda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA

 

[devoy1701]

Really? Let me do a little cut-and-paste for you:





The whole reason why I started commenting on this thread, Main Street USA, is because of your comment and the union in question involves my wages as well as my coworkers. But why are you making such a deal anyway about it? It isn't your job that we are talking about. So why does this make you want to protest a raise for someone else?

How 'bout this. Next time your employer plans to give you a raise, have them call me. I'll talk them out of it. Because that's what you are trying to do to someone else.

You really haven't looked at the "why" in the situation. Why are they asking for more money? Did you ever think about the commitment that 20-year custodian made to the company? That kind of dedication should be rewarded for someone working for a company that is built on customer service and high standards that other companies copy or strive to achieve.

I don't plan on staying in this role forever. But I'm not fighting just for myself. My coworkers are the ones I feel it most for. A friend I work with will celebrate 35 years with the company next spring. She's worked 2 full-time job for over 20 years. We're not talking about her needing to make $20/hour but shouldn't that kind of dedication reap some kind of extra wage?

The union is simply trying to make the current executives stand up and listen to what Walt Disney said about it's cast members. Can you remember? Read my signature.

I fail to see how the comment of mine you copied and pasted is "talking down" custodians. It's not like I'm saying it's not worthwhile work and that they are the scum of the earth and are lesser beings. sheeh...

 

[raven]

I fail to see how the comment of mine you copied and pasted is "talking down" custodians. It's not like I'm saying it's not worthwhile work and that they are the scum of the earth and are lesser beings. sheeh...

Yes. I realized you wouldn't.

 

[devoy1701]

someone sure is a bit pompous.

 

[draybook]

Well said, and very interesting to see this point of view from a CM! :wave:



So now all the sudden all CMs can't afford house payments and are getting handouts from church? When I was back making $10-$11 an hour I was still able to make it ok... I had an apartment and a roommate and I was more than able to cover my expenses and keep out of finanical trouble. I never took handouts from friends, parents, family, church, the state, etc... It's called fiscal responsibility.

Well, unless you just jumped into this thread with your mouth running, you would have watched the video and seen that yes, they were having trouble making payments and were getting handouts at a church.

Let me know when you've had a chance to watch the whole video and you're ready to apologize for acting as if I'm pulling stuff out of the air.

And what part of these people being too broke to move and find new work are you having trouble with? Do I need to use an Etch a Sketch to illustrate this for you? If you don't have money to pay your bills, you don't have money to uproot and find another job, regardless of if you've found it while still employed.

And congratulations to you on making it on 10-11 an hour. Granted the Memphis area is low cost of living, but I support myself, my wife and two children on $15.65 an hour. Now that I've thumped my chest as well can we get back to these people?

Yes, Disney could pay better and no it wouldn't put them out of business.

 

[jakeman]

You really haven't looked at the "why" in the situation. Why are they asking for more money? Did you ever think about the commitment that 20-year custodian made to the company? That kind of dedication should be rewarded for someone working for a company that is built on customer service and high standards that other companies copy or strive to achieve.

I think this here is the core of the disagreement.

No one should be paid for dedication. They should be paid for job performance.

No offense intended to you Raven, but I think the example of a custodian is just that, an example. I don't think anyone here means any slight to you or your co-workers.

We all have different opinions on what different jobs should make. Obviously some are conflicting here. Monetary value aside, I think perhaps the topic would be more civil if it was based around how compensation is awarded rather than the amount.

 

[devoy1701]

Well, unless you just jumped into this thread with your mouth running, you would have watched the video and seen that yes, they were having trouble making payments and were getting handouts at a church.

Let me know when you've had a chance to watch the whole video and you're ready to apologize for acting as if I'm pulling stuff out of the air.

And what part of these people being too broke to move and find new work are you having trouble with? Do I need to use an Etch a Sketch to illustrate this for you? If you don't have money to pay your bills, you don't have money to uproot and find another job, regardless of if you've found it while still employed.

And congratulations to you on making it on 10-11 an hour. Granted the Memphis area is low cost of living, but I support myself, my wife and two children on $15.65 an hour. Now that I've thumped my chest as well can we get back to these people?

Yes, Disney could pay better and no it wouldn't put them out of business.

Oh give me a break. No one is saying anything about uprooting and having to move to get a new job. These aren't investment banker positions. These aren't the types of jobs that a hard to come by and you need to apply across country to find another. We are talking about front-end, low skill positions here.

Like Map said a couple posts early, these positions are not meant to support a family on as a sole mean of income. These are basic unskilled/low skilled labor positions! (and no, I don't need backlash for calling them that. I get that CMs are "skilled" or trained in what they do for their jobs, that's just what their considered...just like a plumber or electrician is considered a skilled trade).

And I have watched the videos. No one needs to go to Amscot that often...it ends up costing you more money in the long run. I don't believe that that gentleman only clears $160 take-home pay or whatever he says he takes home after health and payroll deductions after working 50 hour weeks unless those union dues are incredibly high and he's maxing out on 401k contributions (does WDW offer this?).

 

[Epcotbob]

I would love to work at WDW!

Right now, I do technical work that many days involves looking at page after page of codes and numbers....it gets very grueling, monotonous and drives me nuts at times. But I do it anyway for one reason, they pay is good and it adequately supports the family (5 kids). I won't get rich, but it puts a roof over-head, food on the table and I'm able to eek out a family trip to the mouse every few years.

If I could get the same pay working at the TTC and driving the monorail from time to time, I would trade in a heartbeat. But it's just not an option because of the pay....I accept that.

It is what it is.....they apparently get the people they need at the pay they offer, so what can you do about it :shrug:

 

[Alektronic]

Can Disney pay more? Sure they can. But will they? NO. Just like everything else they have a budget for labor and pay raises. Disney is not going to change the offer. They may change the terms but it will still be the same amount of money.

They are offering 3% raise a year, which is about the same things the other unions got in their contracts. And not everyone from the Service Trades thought it was a bad deal, a lot of people voted for the contract.

I heard on the news today that Disney is still offering the same thing, now it is up to the unions to either vote for it again orgo for a strike vote and I don't think that will happen.

 

[TP2000]

so you are encouraging them to violate company policy to get paid?

and how do you know that when you did give it to them they didnt do as they are told and turn it into a manger?

Huh? :veryconfu

I'm tipping the Disney concierge in the club lounge for services rendered. That's an established practice in good hotels throughout the Free World. No Disney Cast Member working the concierge desk has ever declined my gracious tip. Ever.

I even went so far as to Google some pictures of concierge desks at Disney deluxe hotels to see if there was some discreet sign that I had never noticed before that said "No gratuities please, we are glad to be at your service". Those signs don't exist; or at least I have never seen one and can't find any evidence of one in any picture available online.

Since Disney is the only hotel chain that apparently, officially at least, maintains that a concierge is a non-tipped position, I think what we have here is an official policy on paper and a reality in every Disney club level lounge in North America where tips are routinely accepted. But how on earth do you expect people to know that they tip the concierge at the Ritz-Carlton or Hyatt Regency, but don't at the Grand Floridian or Wilderness Lodge?

As if the Disney concierges are on some alternate planet where a concierge working the club lounge doesn't expect or accept a tip for services rendered? Please.

 

[raven]

I don't believe that that gentleman only clears $160 take-home pay or whatever he says he takes home after health and payroll deductions after working 50 hour weeks unless those union dues are incredibly high and he's maxing out on 401k contributions (does WDW offer this?).

Dues for Local 362 are about $500 for the year. That's $300 more than dues I was paying $16/hour a few years ago. Health insurance is going up (again) so if he has a family that is covered by his insurance it is certainly likely. A coworker of mine barely clears $120 take home for 40 hour weeks with health insurance, union dues and taxes.

They are offering 3% raise a year, which is about the same things the other unions got in their contracts. And not everyone from the Service Trades thought it was a bad deal, a lot of people voted for the contract.

I heard on the news today that Disney is still offering the same thing, now it is up to the unions to either vote for it again orgo for a strike vote and I don't think that will happen.

That adds up to just a little over $1 extra per week. But then they are raising health insurance to almost $1.50 extra a week. So they are actually taking more money from you than what you were making before. The way the contract was set up, CMs in this union would be making less money in 3 years than they are now. If they strike it would be only an amount of hours before guests start to notice due to the fact that this same union covers custodial, attractions and vacation planners (ticket sellers).

 

[TP2000]

Dues for Local 362 are about $500 for the year. ... A coworker of mine barely clears $120 take home for 40 hour weeks with health insurance, union dues and taxes.

The union is taking 500 bucks per year from these CM's?!? That would seem to be a HUGE part of the problem there.

If your co-worker is pulling in 8 dollars an hour and works 40 hours per week, that's 320 dollars per week before taxes, union dues and insurance deductions.

The state of Florida has no personal income tax. I can not figure out how federal taxes/dues/insurance could equal 200 dollars per week for an entry-level Cast Member making minimum wage.

And Disney's health plans are very generous, particularly for the entry-level hourly folks. According to my neighbor who is a long-term Disneyland employee, in California the plans for Disneyland CM's start at $6.50 a week for a single person with a basic but generous medical/vision/mental health plan and go up to about $18.00 per week for a single person with a grand-slam Kaiser Permanente HMO plan. Dental insurance is an extra $1.50 per week, per person. The Florida insurance plans can differ a bit, as I don't think they have Kaiser Permanente out there, but that's the basic dollar figures we're talking about. Family plans are up in the $40 to $80 per week range for full coverage of a wife and two kids.

The guy in the Mousetrapped video who claims he only clears $165 per week after working 50 hours made absolutely no reference to any family members that are dependent on him. He only talked about himself. And if I were a betting man, I don't think he would be the type to have a wife.

Something just doesn't add up with all these folks who claim they work 40 to 50 hours per week at 8 dollars an hour but only bring home 120 to 165 dollars in pay. But it would seem the union is the biggest villain here if they are taking 500 dollars per year in dues money from CM's only making minimum wage.

 

[RobGraves]

Huh? :veryconfu

I'm tipping the Disney concierge in the club lounge for services rendered. That's an established practice in good hotels throughout the Free World. No Disney Cast Member working the concierge desk has ever declined my gracious tip. Ever.

I even went so far as to Google some pictures of concierge desks at Disney deluxe hotels to see if there was some discreet sign that I had never noticed before that said "No gratuities please, we are glad to be at your service". Those signs don't exist; or at least I have never seen one and can't find any evidence of one in any picture available online.

Since Disney is the only hotel chain that apparently, officially at least, maintains that a concierge is a non-tipped position, I think what we have here is an official policy on paper and a reality in every Disney club level lounge in North America where tips are routinely accepted. But how on earth do you expect people to know that they tip the concierge at the Ritz-Carlton or Hyatt Regency, but don't at the Grand Floridian or Wilderness Lodge?

As if the Disney concierges are on some alternate planet where a concierge working the club lounge doesn't expect or accept a tip for services rendered? Please.

youve heard in this thread from someone working that position who told you what i said was truth. My girlfriends father used to work concierge at GF, but i suppose hes a liar too we are all making this up.. right?

or maybe is the reality is when you hear the truth, like most "conservatives" you stick your head in the sand and say its a big bad lie, it cant possibly be true because its antithetical to your viewpoint and uninformed opinion? There is no POSSIBLE way you could be wrong... right?

Guess what... Disney pretty much IS an alternate reality compared to other employers. They get away with things and have policies other places could never get away with.

Heres one for ya... I've brought up here before.. My SO has a job that requires a degree at Disney, and has a BA, working on her masters... and has been with disney for nearly 10 years... want to venture a guess how much she makes an hour? anyone?



just over 14.00...

"oh well why doesnt she just leave?"
Well first, the issue of tenure and not losing some of the few things she has earned there over the years, like the ability to pick her days off and vacation days. second....have you seen the central Florida job market? I am a web designer/fitness trainer with a degree who used to make 40 an hour who spent nearly 3 years unemployed... the last 6 months i was applying for every position possible even grocery stores and mcdonalds and couldnt get a job still... I finally found a job to get me by working in a call center. Do you know how many other people in that call center are in the same position I am? Degrees, experience and making 10-14 an hr on 23hr weeks? about half of the 50 on my shift. Guy next to me has multiple degrees and 10yrs experience in the IT field, but after a year needed something to help pay the bills while looking for more work. gotta feed the kids... So, im sitting in a call center, scraping by, as we live off of her meager income and i prepare to start living off student loan living expenses while returning to school to go to med school...

So do you think its easy for someone to find a decent job here right now? If so please I welcome you to do so.

welcome to reality... its worse than you think.


but since you like to throw personal insults at people, and talk about what you think of people and your judgments.

ill throw out mine.
People like you are human garbage. thank you.

mindsets like yours have led to the wal-marting of this country. If you want a wal-mart like experience at Disney, fine... but dont complain about how good it USED to be.

 

[TP2000]

youve heard in this thread from someone working that position who told you what i said was truth. My girlfriends father used to work concierge at GF, but i suppose hes a liar too we are all making this up.. right?

or maybe is the reality is when you hear the truth, like most "conservatives" you stick your head in the sand and say its a big bad lie, it cant possibly be true because its antithetical to your viewpoint and uninformed opinion? There is no POSSIBLE way you could be wrong... right?

Guess what... Disney pretty much IS an alternate reality compared to other employers. They get away with things and have policies other places could never get away with.

Heres one for ya... I've brought up here before.. My SO has a job that requires a degree at Disney, and has a BA, working on her masters... and has been with disney for nearly 10 years... want to venture a guess how much she makes an hour? anyone?



just over 14.00...

"oh well why doesnt she just leave?"
Well first, the issue of tenure and not losing some of the few things she has earned there over the years, like the ability to pick her days off and vacation days. second....have you seen the central Florida job market? I am a web designer/fitness trainer with a degree who used to make 40 an hour who spent nearly 3 years unemployed... the last 6 months i was applying for every position possible even grocery stores and mcdonalds and couldnt get a job still... I finally found a job to get me by working in a call center. Do you know how many other people in that call center are in the same position I am? Degrees, experience and making 10-14 an hr on 23hr weeks? about half of the 50 on my shift. Guy next to me has multiple degrees and 10yrs experience in the IT field, but after a year needed something to help pay the bills while looking for more work. gotta feed the kids... So, im sitting in a call center, scraping by, as we live off of her meager income and i prepare to start living off student loan living expenses while returning to school to go to med school...

So do you think its easy for someone to find a decent job here right now? If so please I welcome you to do so.

welcome to reality... its worse than you think.


but since you like to throw personal insults at people, and talk about what you think of people and your judgments.

ill throw out mine.
People like you are human garbage. thank you.

mindsets like yours have led to the wal-marting of this country. If you want a wal-mart like experience at Disney, fine... but dont complain about how good it USED to be.

After 13 or so years on Disney theme park message boards, that has to be one of the most awesomely unrelated replies to one of my posts ever. I wanted to quote the whole thing just to preserve it in its grand entirety.

I completely believe that there is a policy that states concierge desk CM's aren't supposed to take tips. But what I also know is that tipping a hotel concierge is a widely established travel industry practice, and Disney must be one of the only hotels to officially ban that practice. Interestingly, they don't mention it on their Disney hotel websites or in signage at the concierge desks. It's a little secret they may tell you if you ask the manager, apparently.

What I also know from years of personal experience is that Disney club level concierges are gladly taking my tips within seconds of me extending the cash in my hand without so much as a peep about "Oh, no, that's not neccesary sir".

As for "wal-marting" the Disney experience, I've found it's exactly the opposite as the concierges to be extremely helpful in getting quick and easy access to the top tier Disney experiences like dinner shows, great restaurants, spa appointments, etc. And they always get a nice tip from me for that, too. :lol:

Not sure where you got the idea that I'm a "conservative". I live quite a decadent, heathen lifestyle in fact. But the angry label at least gave me a chuckle, so thanks for the laugh.

Disney Concierge Cast Members, like any other hotel concierge in America, regularly and gladly accept cash gratuities from hotel guests for concierge services rendered.

Shock and Awe!

 

[RobGraves]

Not sure where you got the idea that I'm a "conservative". I live quite a decadent, heathen lifestyle in fact. But the angry label at least gave me a chuckle, so thanks for the laugh.

well, thats a lifestyle i can appreciate.


i get defensive on this stuff.... its a long fight.

but think of this, as i said before....

you handed them a tip... fine.

do you know what happened to it after that?

 

[TP2000]

you handed them a tip... fine.

do you know what happened to it after that?

It was slid into their pocket. What they did with it after that is their business. I don't really care. If it goes in some communal tip jar in the back, that's cool. If it goes to cheap booze and easy women at the Kissimmee TGIFriday's, that's cool too.

I don't really care.