Mousetrapped 2010

[hrcollectibles]

In just reading from the first link above, there are comments from a 17 year veteran custodian who makes "only" $13.57 an hour. How much does he think he should make as a custodian? There has to be a point where you top out in such a job, and without trying to advance into a different position, $13.57 an hour for custodial work is pretty damn good, no matter how long you've been with a company.

I truly mean no disrespect to anyone, but it seems this is another case of someone feeling entitled to something they aren't entitled to. "I deserve this because I've been here a long time." I'm sure he's had several raises over those 17 years, but that's not enough? What does he want? $20 an hour for sweeping and cleaning? Never. If you want more money, find a job that pays more than doing custodial work.

You're free to find other work if you choose. We all are.

I agree.. No one is forcing you to stay with a company. If you re not satisfied with your pay, perhaps you should try looking elsewhere for employment. A lot of these union cast members seem to be surprised at wages other cast members are making. Its not like Disney, or any other company, hides what your starting wage is when you are hired. And perhaps some cast members aren't making what they feel they should be making, but maybe its because of their job performance in that particular role.

 

[raiden]

As a shareholder and a Disney theme park fan, give these CM raises! They are what make Disney Parks(pc thx) the greatest place in the world. I have met some extraordinary CM that have gone way out of there way to help my friends and family(and when i think about how they have helped and read stories about MGMT i hope they didnt get reprimanded).

When Disney invests in the parks and especially the CM they will reap the benefits short and long term.

 

[v_misses_epcot]

First of all to Raven <3 You and many other cast members are the reason why my Boyfriend and I still work at Disney. I'm sorry your manager treated you like that and damn straight you did the right thing, kudos! =D:sohappy: That sir, in many of our eyes is a Guest Service fanatic card right there. My bf is also custodial at Epcot Future World and man he has to do so much stuff, it's crazy. All sorts of chemicals and body fluids (you might want to think twice before you sit down by electric umbrella, that's a favorite spot for parents to let their children tinkle.) :hurl:

And 2nd: All the people that are making the comment "just get up and go and move or get another job?" You make it sound like it's so freaking easy to just do that. We have family and friends here, our children have been going to school since they were kids, most of our money has gone to disney, if we just "get up and go," it'll be a huge waste. People aren't hiring, it's tough out there.

We do a lot for guest and we're getting little encouragement, pay and acknowledgment in return. We'll keep doing what we do best and that's making magic but a little pat on the back wouldn't be so bad every once in a while.

I'm seasonal at Disney and right now I work for a small little company that pays me 10 dollars an hour for working with chemicals that make testing strips for pools and spas. 10!! I just started in May and In Jan I'll already be getting a week of vacation and a week of sick days. Benefits are amazing and we get a quarter raise every year, company picnics, Christmas parties and a bonus to boot. By 5 years, you get a whole month vacation and 2 weeks of sick days!! If a teeny tiny company can do that for us, I'm sure Disney can do that to their employers too.

 

[Main Street USA]

I've read a lot of similar comments on various sites and no offense, but you don't have a clue. Outsiders look at this as a cut and dried $13/hr for a custodian with 17 years is good enough. I've been going to WDW since year 1, and I was a CM for 10 years having left last year.

Can the CMs who you think make enough, go other places? You bet. 17 yrs at Disney on a resume no matter what the position will get you another job. 10 yrs on my resume got me a job making 3 times what Disney paid. Can Disney replace the disgruntled workers? Absolutely! What do you have then? You have an ok amusement park. That's it. There's really nothing special about the rides. What's the jungle cruise without the cm doing the commentating? You want rides? Stay home and go to six flags or go to universal or cedar point. It's a whole lot cheaper with better rides.

It's the cast members who make the Disney magic.
What are you going to do...bring in people from the street to take over? Who's going to train them? The managers? I got news for you. Most of the managers at disney are young (you won't find too many middle aged married white guys), fresh out of college, people who accepted a lower paying management job with the most recognizable company in the world. Most have few people skills, and the only thing that they know about disney is from the few class hours that disney provided. They are paper shufflers who give stuff away to solve problems. How do they learn how to deal with people and where do they learn about how disney was and how it should be? The CMs who have been doing it for years. Did you realize that the population of WDW at any given time is a quarter of a million people? During the busy seasons, there are approximately 62,000 cms. Do you really want the cms who know disney to go away? When is the last time you saw a family celebrate because they were going to universal? Disney CMs do their jobs (which is take care of their guests) dealing with more people on a day to day basis than anyone else in the world.
Pay them for what they know, as well as, what they do!

I agree with most of what you wrote, unfortunately, nothing you wrote had anything to do with what I said.

 

[Main Street USA]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Jobs should be paid in regard to their complexity and risk not because of the affection the employee has for the position.

As some one who has worked as Disney and now works in a completely different industry it has nothing to do with not wanting to do a Disney employee's job. You are forcing classism into a conversation that isn't about that.

Every job at Disney is not as important as every other job. They are interconnect sure, but there is an hierarchy and there should be.

What is a decent living wage? Who is going to decide that? Is it above the poverty line? Does it need to be able to afford a house? How many square feet? Do you get a car? How much car? How many kids are you allowed? How much should that wage protect you from your own financial idiocy?

Bingo.

 

[TP2000]

except Disney rules concierge's cannot accept tips, and if a tip is forced on them they have to give it to a "tip jar" where it is shared amongst all the CMs usually in the form of a pizza party. To accept a tip and not turn it in is a fireable offense.

This comment has me scratching my head. Are you sure you aren't confusing a deluxe hotel concierge for the kid driving a raft over to Tom Sawyer Island? :veryconfu

I have never had a Disney concierge turn down a gratuity from me. Nor have they ever put up an attempted defensive maneuver when I present the tip to them. Any time I have stayed in a Concierge level room, most recently at the Grand Californian Hotel, but also at WDW properties in recent years, I have given the concierge a tip of at least 20 dollars and up to 50 dollars depending on the amount of work they did in securing reservations and help at my specific request. Any Disney concierge I have ever worked with has accepted the tip just as naturally and gracefully as a concierge in any Hilton or Ritz-Carlton or any big hotel that offers concierge services. And the money given to the Disney concierge went into their pockets quickly, not into some tip jar on their desk.

Similarly, I have never had a Disney bellhop or waiter or bartender decline a tip from me on Disney property. Now certainly, if I tried to tip a Jungle Cruise Skipper (which I wouldn't obviously, as that would be weird), I would expect them to politely decline it. But having a Disney concierge or waiter or bellhop decline a tip??? Those folks have never declined my tips in the past few decades I've been visiting Disney hotels and restaurants.

.

 

[Main Street USA]

As a custodial CM I can comment on this easily.

First off, you just offended me in generalizing custodial CMs as just "sweeping and cleaning." Even if that were the case, how else do you think the parks stay clean? Certainly Tinkerbell isn't tossing around any pixie dust when no one is looking. Custodial workers, especially night custodial, are subjected to hazardous chemicals & body fluids & diseases (including used needles and blood), work in risky environments that can pose huge safety issues, and often work alone in remote places with no contact in case of an emergency. Some are given impossible tasks to complete within their shift yet they are expected to do it anyway, without taking shortcuts, and not go overtime.

Secondly, the man in the video never asked for $20/hour. He simply ment that after 20 years you would think there would be more of a reward.

Please, don't put words in my mouth. I never said he asked for $20 an hour. I asked, "what does he expect? $20 an hour?"

You say you're offended by my generalization, then you offer nothing as a contradictory point when referring to what it is you do. You basically told me that your job is tough and sometimes dangerous. Ok, I never said it wasn't. The fact remains, nothing you wrote justifies making much more than $13.57 an hour for custodial work. Sorry.

As some others have said, you can't expect a cushy middle class life for working in a position that any high school graduate can have right out of the gate. You may be great at your job in WDW Custodial, and hopefully, by now you're much better at it than a new custodian fresh out of high school, but that's EXACTLY why you make more than that person would.

We all have the freedom to make decisions when it comes to how we earn a living. You work for Disney, and they make the rules. They're your boss. You do what they say, and they say someone that works as a custodian for 17 years should earn $13.57 an hour. You can leave and find other work if it makes you unhappy. That's up to YOU, not them. It may be a hard decision, but it's still one you're FREE to make.

 

[TP2000]

Too bad they don't treat CM's like Google treats its people, eh? Sushi in the breakroom? Do your dry cleaning for you?

This type of argument always frustrates me. Sure, some tech companies like Google ladle on the perks and swanky workplace benefits like crazy. But the people working at Google are highly trained, highly educated, brilliantly developed employees working in an extremely specialized and unique field.

Take those three guys who appeared in the Disney union's "Mousetrapped" YouTube video, Bryan, David and Doug. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubqZNb_UO-8

What skills and specialities and expertise would these three CM's bring to the Google organization exactly that would warrant their employment at Google's campus? These three CM's, while they may be very nice gentlemen who do a great job selling tickets in a booth or loading boats at Pirates or waiting tables at Boma, don't appear to have a skill-set or education level that allows them to work in a top tech company in the Silicon Valley. Google may have great benefits, but they also demand a great amount of high-performing work from their employees in a very specialized field filled with extremely brilliant and extensively educated players.

Your chosen workplace is not a lottery where you land at a great company just by the luck of the draw. A person working at Google has to bring to that employer a top college and post-graduate education, in addition to an extremely high performing skill level that can't easily be duplicated or trained in any average person off the street. They also have to beat out the 100+ other people who applied for the same Google job. At Disney World? I imagine there are at most 5 applicants for every job opening, and most jobs take anyone off the street with a high school diploma and a basic ability to interact with other humans.

Google demands a great deal more from their employees than Disney World does, thus the need for Google to coddle those who make it in the door.

 

[kapeman]

With that said, Disney should go back to the extensive Traditions training they had along with the specific area training as well to shore up cast members appreciation for what they are a part of.

My understanding is that it is a mere shadow of itself now.

Down from 2-3 full days a decade or so ago to 4 hours now.

 

[majortom1981]

hmm

I have not worked in Disney but i am in a union now and i have worked in a supermarket and other places.

They are getting annual raises and health care and are still complaining? You dont get that at other amusement parks. Also Janitors at regular companies are lucky to get that.

I can do food prep at a restaraunt and not get that. They really should be happy as to what they get . They are luck disney does not take away healthcare at all or does away with raises totally.

Also From what i see most people know working at disney does not pay enough to live off of. They work their for the atmosphere.

PS I am in a union at my current job . we are negotiating a contract and the employer doesnt want to give us any raises at all so disney employees should not complain about 3 percent.

 

[raven]

As some others have said, you can't expect a cushy middle class life for working in a position that any high school graduate can have right out of the gate. You may be great at your job in WDW Custodial, and hopefully, by now you're much better at it than a new custodian fresh out of high school, but that's EXACTLY why you make more than that person would.

Saying that my job is nothing more than a high school grad can do is simply a big-headed statement and I am offended by you once again.

For your information HS grads have come into our department many times and never last past their 90 days. They are either too lazy to do actual work or the get fired for attendence or poor job performance....even sleeping.

Don't act like you know everything that custodial does because you don't. You simply see those custodial CM's walking around the park in white costumes with a pan and broom. They do "up keep" cleaning but still worth more than what they get. I do "deep cleaning" meaning the entire park gets scrubbed down, top to bottom, inside and out in many ways no guest, or even other CMs can begin to imagine. The work we do every night other theame parks do at the start and end of their season.

When the parks open in the morning there is no evidence that thousands of guests were just there a few hours earlier. It takes much more than a broom and windex for that.

Wish I could stay at the Grand Floridian like you but I guess your job pays you enough to do that. That alone makes your comments sound even more snooty.

 

[parkgoer]

Saying that my job is nothing more than a high school grad can do is simply a big-headed statement and I am offended by you once again.

For your information HS grads have come into our department many times and never last past their 90 days. They are either too lazy to do actual work or the get fired for attendence or poor job performance....even sleeping.

Don't act like you know everything that custodial does because you don't. You simply see those custodial CM's walking around the park in white costumes with a pan and broom. They do "up keep" cleaning but still worth more than what they get. I do "deep cleaning" meaning the entire park gets scrubbed down, top to bottom, inside and out in many ways no guest, or even other CMs can begin to imagine. The work we do every night other theame parks do at the start and end of their season.

When the parks open in the morning there is no evidence that thousands of guests were just there a few hours earlier. It takes much more than a broom and windex for that.

Wish I could stay at the Grand Floridian like you but I guess your job pays you enough to do that. That alone makes your comments sound even more snooty.

I did custodial for a little while. Many times I would have guest come up to me and thank me because "the park is so clean" or spotless or something to that effect. I felt guilty. 3rd shift is really where the magic is happening. I was just there to empty trash cans and sweep popcorn.

 

[devoy1701]

Saying that my job is nothing more than a high school grad can do is simply a big-headed statement and I am offended by you once again.

For your information HS grads have come into our department many times and never last past their 90 days. They are either too lazy to do actual work or the get fired for attendence or poor job performance....even sleeping.

Don't act like you know everything that custodial does because you don't. You simply see those custodial CM's walking around the park in white costumes with a pan and broom. They do "up keep" cleaning but still worth more than what they get. I do "deep cleaning" meaning the entire park gets scrubbed down, top to bottom, inside and out in many ways no guest, or even other CMs can begin to imagine. The work we do every night other theame parks do at the start and end of their season.

When the parks open in the morning there is no evidence that thousands of guests were just there a few hours earlier. It takes much more than a broom and windex for that.

Wish I could stay at the Grand Floridian like you but I guess your job pays you enough to do that. That alone makes your comments sound even more snooty.

With all do respect Raven, the point MSUSA was making about HS grads being able to do the jobs is that you don't need formal higher education to be able to do the work. Any HS grad (and probably some that don't make it through) can do the actual custodial work, personal work ethic aside. There are many college grads and manner people in management of companies (my own included) that shouldn't be where they are today if that kind of thing was just based on personal drive and work-ethic. Should some custodial staff get paid more than they do...probably? Is $13.57 an appropriate salary cap....I'm not one to say. Do you do an amazing job with your own tasks/duties, I would probably reckon so judging by other qualities you demonstrate on here. But the point remains that you don't need higher education to do the job, and it doesn't necessarily call for a $15-$20/hr pay-rate. That's not a big-headed statement.

 

[parkgoer]

I agree with both people both pro union, and people against the union. Both sides make great arguments. It's hard to side 100% with either. Something DOES need to be done about the pay scale for different roles.

Example:
The person that took your QSFB order is getting paid more than the monorail Pilot. (Photopass can also be substituted for QSFB) So let's say i'm piloting your monorail at night at we get stuck on the beam. If something were to happen, you think i'm gonna spring into action and climb out the roof hatch for less than $8.00 and hour???? I'll sit in the cab and wait all night for all i care. You have a hatch in your car too, all you have to do is pull down. Go ahead and go out, you'll be fine....

What about the water craft CMs also getting paid less than QSFB, Photopass, Security bus drivers etc. God forbid the boat started sinking. Who are all 300 guests going to look to for assistance? yup, the guy making $8.00 an hour.

I just don't understand how someone taking pictures is getting over $2/hr more than certain CMs in high responsibility roles. What kind of responsibility do you have in QSFB or Photopass??? sure there's some, but you dont have thousands of lives in your hands every night.

How is it photopass gets paid about the same as security? you don't need a degree to get into photopass. Sure you stand there all day, but so does everyother CM. IMO photopass should be the least paying job in the company.


Now don't get me wrong, there are people in these roles VERY passionate about their jobs even tho they aren't getting paid nearly what they deserve. The biggest problem i see with this situation is that you have to just deal with it and be thankful you have a job. Go to casting and see the line of people waiting for a job. That's ok for me to think like that, but it becomes a problem when the company also thinks like that because they let people come and go, because there will always be more people to come.

 

[Master Yoda]

I agree with both people both pro union, and people against the union. Both sides make great arguments. It's hard to side 100% with either. Something DOES need to be done about the pay scale for different roles.

Example:
The person that took your QSFB order is getting paid more than the monorail Pilot. (Photopass can also be substituted for QSFB) So let's say i'm piloting your monorail at night at we get stuck on the beam. If something were to happen, you think i'm gonna spring into action and climb out the roof hatch for less than $8.00 and hour???? I'll sit in the cab and wait all night for all i care. You have a hatch in your car too, all you have to do is pull down. Go ahead and go out, you'll be fine....

What about the water craft CMs also getting paid less than QSFB, Photopass, Security bus drivers etc. God forbid the boat started sinking. Who are all 300 guests going to look to for assistance? yup, the guy making $8.00 an hour.

I just don't understand how someone taking pictures is getting over $2/hr more than certain CMs in high responsibility roles. What kind of responsibility do you have in QSFB or Photopass??? sure there's some, but you dont have thousands of lives in your hands every night.

How is it photopass gets paid about the same as security? you don't need a degree to get into photopass. Sure you stand there all day, but so does everyother CM. IMO photopass should be the least paying job in the company.


Now don't get me wrong, there are people in these roles VERY passionate about their jobs even tho they aren't getting paid nearly what they deserve. The biggest problem i see with this situation is that you have to just deal with it, because there's always going to be a line of people at casting just waiting for you to leave.

There is one simple reason. Photopass makes gigantic Everest size piles of money. Transportation on the other had could be considered a loss leader. Loss leaders almost always get the short end of the stick.

When I started in my current profession I worked for a company that basically gave away trusses to get lumber, sheeting, trim, etc. When I left and went to a company that viewed truss as a profit source my pay nearly doubled.

It is stupid an not always fair but the simple fact is that the bean counters are much more willing to loosen the purse strings if what you do is viewed as a revenue source vs. a cost of doing business expense.

 

[devoy1701]

There is one simple reason. Photopass makes gigantic Everest size piles of money. Transportation on the other had could be considered a loss leader. Loss leaders almost always get the short end of the stick.

When I started in my current profession I worked for a company that basically gave away trusses to get lumber, sheeting, trim, etc. When I left and went to a company that viewed truss as a profit source my pay nearly doubled.

It is stupid an not always fair but the simple fact is that the bean counters are much more willing to loosen the purse strings if what you do is viewed as a revenue source vs. a cost of doing business expense.

Very true and it applies to most all companies and industries. In the company I work for the Sales guys (most are morons and don't have a clue how anything actually works) make a ton of money, while us (the Sales Operations/Finance Analyst positions) make considerable less but yet we're just as responsible (if not more) for making sure the company and transactions run smoothly.

 

[minniemickeyfan]

Thats the problem with the union position... its marginal increases across all levels, as opposed to giving people incentives to prove themselves over their fellow employees to earn a higher stake.

Exactly!

This is my problem with unions, they are set up to encourage a lifelong career. I don't think many of the WDW jobs are career type jobs. You can make very decent money for the type of jobs you just have to have worked there for ten years. The problem is people get a job there work long enough that they are actually getting paid decent and then after putting in all those years are very hesitant to look for anything else because they wouldn't want to lose that valuable seniority they worked so hard for. I would much rather see Disney pay a flat rate for each position regardless of seniority. If they took what they pay now and spread it out they could offer a much better starting pay, attract better employees, and no one would feel trapped to work there.

My husband's 2nd full time job about a year ago started where all the tips are shared. What happenned? Productivity went down, we make less $, workers who don't care make more $ and customers aren't as happy! My husband is one that works so hard and now the people that don't want to do anything make just as much as he does. Pay should also be based on performance, reward those who work hard!

 

[parkgoer]

There is one simple reason. Photopass makes gigantic Everest size piles of money. Transportation on the other had could be considered a loss leader. Loss leaders almost always get the short end of the stick.

When I started in my current profession I worked for a company that basically gave away trusses to get lumber, sheeting, trim, etc. When I left and went to a company that viewed truss as a profit source my pay nearly doubled.

It is stupid an not always fair but the simple fact is that the bean counters are much more willing to loosen the purse strings if what you do is viewed as a revenue source vs. a cost of doing business expense.

ok, understandable, not fair, but understandable. Maybe you could better explain to me why bus drivers are starting at $11+/hr while other transportation(monorail/watercraft) CMs start at $7.90

I know this is far out there (maybe not?) What do you all think would happen if a certain CM role where to go on strike. Like custodial, or merch/transportation. Is that even possible? would we just get fired? would anything come of it? would it make the news..? Is this something that would even warrant a strike or just be laughed at..?

 

[Master Yoda]

ok, understandable, not fair, but understandable. Maybe you could better explain to me why bus drivers are starting at $11+/hr while other transportation(monorail/watercraft) CMs start at $7.90

I know this is far out there (maybe not?) What do you all think would happen if a certain CM role where to go on strike. Like custodial, or merch/transportation. Is that even possible? would we just get fired? would anything come of it? would it make the news..? Is this something that would even warrant a strike or just be laughed at..?

Could they strike? Sure, if the union approved it. Disney could just fire and rehire but there is a lot of shmeg that could go along with a decision like that and it would take time and money to train new people. It would of course make news. If someone stubs their toe at Disney it seems to make news. A worker strike would definitely make headlines and the probability of those headlines being positive for Disney are near zero regardless of what the facts are.

The bottom line is a strike is an absolute last resort. About the only people who will truly benefit from a strike are the people who get hired after it. For those workers who go on strike it can take years or decades to make up for the loss of wages during a strike. The employer will loose productivity and depending of the structure of the contract the union will have to pay strike benefits.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Very true and it applies to most all companies and industries. In the company I work for the Sales guys (most are morons and don't have a clue how anything actually works) make a ton of money, while us (the Sales Operations/Finance Analyst positions) make considerable less but yet we're just as responsible (if not more) for making sure the company and transactions run smoothly.

Hey, you and I are living pretty similar lives. In my company they don't even like to move us up to the sales floor from Ops since...they like to hire newly minted Ivy grads instead who have no idea what is going on. PM coming your way.