More closures confirmed for Disney's Hollywood Studios

[wdisney9000]

Is this when I have to point out it is a business, and spreading expenses, and stock buyback are part of operating a business. When you walk into a McDonalds, do you get upset because they don't serve ethnic food? No, because when you walked into McDonalds you should have known what to expect. If you look at TDO as what it is, you find yourself a lot less disappointed. The funny thing is our outrage at certain things must be funny to them, since they view their business as what it is... not what we wished it would be.

Yes, Disney is a business, and in other news..., water is wet. I know what to expect at McDonalds (GMO laced menu) but WDW once was a place that would build something new and you had no idea what to expect. At one time, they knew how to run it like a business while still maintaining the product and keeping creativity and innovation at the top of the list. Now they just flop out "good enough" and the crowd goes wild. They can plop out a pile of hot steaming pooh and there are people that will call it an E ticket if Disney throws a few buzz words on top to cover up the flies circling around the stank.

My post was originally longer and actually included that spreading out budgets over fiscal quarters and years is perfectly normal. I just shortened it to highlight the fact that regardless of spreading it out, they still had more than enough money to build out parks such as Epcot or HS over the years but jacking up the price of stock was more important than paying close attention to the very products that produce the profits which allow them to have the billions to buy back said stock in the first place. Now theyre forced to dismantle over half of HS in an effort to make it better and at the same time they have Epcot suffering because they neglected it as well.

And the only thing I will say about Uni is that any Disney fan should be thanking them (or Comcast). NFL would not have been built if Uni hadnt announced Potter. Same for Avatar, same for Star Wars Land, and same for Andys Backyard. ALL of it is ONLY because Uni raised the bar and for the most part, beat Disney at their own game (creating something amazing). If you think for one second that TWDC decided to do any of these expansions to enhance the parks or for the benefit of the guest experience, you are lying to yourself. The parks would be exactly the same as they were 7 or 8 years ago if Uni hadnt opened a can of whoop azz them. That is in no way saying that Uni is a better theme park than WDW. However, its being ran better. They are producing "immersive" experiences and in a timely fashion. By timely fashion, Im talking less than 6 years.

 

[wdisney9000]

Well if we can't have Frozen in Norway (which was set in Norway)

...please dont take that as me being rude. just politely disagreeing. I love debating the Frozen/Norway/Maelstrom issue because everybody looks at differently, which makes it fun to discuss when people dont loose their heads or go cry to the mods. But there is another forum for that discussion. Its actually been awhile since ive ranted in there so maybe Ill go bump it since im off work today and we can cross swords in its proper arena, hahahaha

 

[Rutt]

And I respect your opinion, but if a princess vibe is seen as a positive for Epcots World Showcase then the mighty truly has fallen.

There again we know it has.

If it has a princess vibe then there is another problem to go with Frozen. Don't fuel a fire by continuing to throw logs on the flame.

Oh, I agree and never mentioned it as a positive, however, at least it has that. DHS does not at all. In Epcot, Belle is there, Mulan is there, Akershus, etc. Frozen really belongs in only one park, and its the one that least needs it, but if it cant be there, then Epcot would seem to be the next best fit.

DHS seems to be going to the boys of the world. Bring on TSL, SWL and hopefully Monstropolis (although I would love to see more Disney oriented stuff like Wreck It Ralph).

 

[raven]

Frozen really belongs in only one park, and its the one that least needs it, but if it cant be there, then Epcot would seem to be the next best fit.

Well there is a Frozen Meet & Greet at MK as well as Frozen being in the Castle projection show and at DHS they have a Sing-a-long and had 2 summers of Frozen themed celebration. So Frozen has already been at both of those parks for over 2 years now.

 

[Ralphlaw]

But are you charging guests 100 bucks a pop to wash dishes in your bathtub? How's attendance looking, and what do the lines at Guest Services look like?

No idea, I'm back at work in Wisconsin. But what the handy dandy app tells me is that even in this very slow time of year there's still a 70 minute wait at Midway Mania, 40 at TofT, 30 at Star tours, and 20 at R&R. From what I can tell, these waits are close to Magic Kingdom and Epcot waits for similar attractions. AK is far shorter.

Look, Disney is charging what they feel is appropriate. If the place became a ghost town, then of course admission should be lower, and I assume they would do it. For us, we couldn't care less about the daily admission price because we always got park hoppers for our multi-day stays. It's the law of Supply and Demand as explained in Econ 101. Going against this law is nearly always a losing proposition.

Given the price of most guests for travel to get to Orlando, lodging, and food, park admission prices are generally an after thought or obscured in some package or hopper. Could Disney lower the price as some kind of funky and organic good will gesture in recognition of the park being less than some might expect. I suppose so, but they don't have to as long as people keep coming in and are willing to stand in lines.

 

[Ralphlaw]

And the only thing I will say about Uni is that any Disney fan should be thanking them (or Comcast). NFL would not have been built if Uni hadnt announced Potter. Same for Avatar, same for Star Wars Land, and same for Andys Backyard. ALL of it is ONLY because Uni raised the bar and for the most part, beat Disney at their own game (creating something amazing). If you think for one second that TWDC decided to do any of these expansions to enhance the parks or for the benefit of the guest experience, you are lying to yourself. The parks would be exactly the same as they were 7 or 8 years ago if Uni hadnt opened a can of whoop azz them. That is in no way saying that Uni is a better theme park than WDW. However, its being ran better. They are producing "immersive" experiences and in a timely fashion. By timely fashion, Im talking less than 6 years.

Uh, as I recall, Disney MGM studios was very hurriedly built in the late 80s because Uni was going up down the road. The whole park was a reaction to the competition. Solid business decisions are based on (1) New Opportunities and/or (2) A Response to the Competition. I don't think one is necessarily more valid or esteemed than the other. It's always been this way. Walt saw Disneyland as an amazing new ground-breaking opportunity AND as competition against the sleazy amusement parks of the time. WDW land was originally purchased by Walt as a new east coast opportunity AND to thwart the competition before it even started AND to forge new frontiers in city-planning. The last bit was an unrealistic pipe dream that never actually happened, although Celebration, DVC and other aspects of Reedy Creek might qualify. Nevertheless, the threat of potential competition was part of the reason that 44 square mile was bought in the first place.

Plus, don't forget that for every dollar spent at Uni, a few pennies go to Disney because of the Marvel licensing agreement. The Uni "competition" is actually a small plus for Disney's pocketbook.

 

[wdisney9000]

Uh, as I recall, Disney MGM studios was very hurriedly built in the late 80s because Uni was going up down the road. The whole park was a reaction to the competition. Solid business decisions are based on (1) New Opportunities and/or (2) A Response to the Competition. I don't think one is necessarily more valid or esteemed than the other. It's always been this way. Walt saw Disneyland as an amazing new ground-breaking opportunity AND as competition against the sleazy amusement parks of the time. WDW land was originally purchased by Walt as a new east coast opportunity AND to thwart the competition before it even started AND to forge new frontiers in city-planning. The last bit was an unrealistic pipe dream that never actually happened, although Celebration, DVC and other aspects of Reedy Creek might qualify. Nevertheless, the threat of potential competition was part of the reason that 44 square mile was bought in the first place.

Plus, don't forget that for every dollar spent at Uni, a few pennies go to Disney because of the Marvel licensing agreement. The Uni "competition" is actually a small plus for Disney's pocketbook.

I agree with that. And while business decisions are very much based on what competition is/isnt doing, it does not mean that the execs at TWDC can ONLY decide to build and create in a reactionary fashion. I have a small business. I do not expand it or invest into it strictly when my competition does something.

 

[UpAllNight]

Meanwhile down the road at Seaworld, despite their financial pressures, they're well on with building their 200ft B&M...and it looks like it will have taken them maybe 10 months from start to finish. I believe they've also filled part of a lake in and done a load of complex work on the ground too. Fancy that.

 

[Andrew C]

Meanwhile down the road at Seaworld, despite their financial pressures, they're well on with building their 200ft B&M...and it looks like it will have taken them maybe 10 months from start to finish. I believe they've also filled part of a lake in and done a load of complex work on the ground too. Fancy that.

Good for them. I assume they believe this type of investment will help turns things around for them.

 

[UpAllNight]

Good for them. I assume they believe this type of investment will help turns things around for them.

Disney could do with some of their attitude like it or not. Seaworld was a very enjoyable experience (partly down to crowds being lower than Disney)....the Studios were tragic. 10 minute wait for Manta or 75 for Rock n Rollercoaster. No brainer. The statistics between the parks aren't even comparable but as a vacation day we all preferred Seaworld and if there's more like us that must surely add a bit of urgency.

 

[Andrew C]

Disney could do with some of their attitude like it or not. Seaworld was a very enjoyable experience (partly down to crowds being lower than Disney)....the Studios were tragic. 10 minute wait for Manta or 75 for Rock n Rollercoaster. No brainer. The statistics between the parks aren't even comparable but as a vacation day we all preferred Seaworld and if there's more like us that must surely add a bit of urgency.

What type of attitude are you speaking of? Disney is currently investing heavily in WDW. And, from what was reported on the new Spirit thread, Bob Chapek wants to build things much more quickly.

 

[UpAllNight]

What type of attitude are you speaking of? Disney is currently investing heavily in WDW. And, from what was reported on the new Spirit thread, Bob Chapek wants to build things much more quickly.

Just the general consensus that it's going to be late 2017 for Toy Story. To me that just seems like madness. Whilst we don't know how far along they were with their plans when this was announced; it was announced 4 months after Mako...yet Mako is just maybe 4 or 5 months from opening. There is absolutely nothing in this project that is a complex build. It's a rollercoaster, some buildings and a flat ride. It'll be a very welcome addition imo but come on Disney, stop messing around and get it built now because the studios is absolutely tragic and needs help asap.

 

[Andrew C]

There is absolutely nothing in this project that is a complex build.

And you know this based on what? Concept art?

 

[UpAllNight]

And you know this based on what? Concept art?

Isn't the announcement of attractions combined with the concept art a generally good idea of what to expect in a project, especially when there's been no indications of attraction changes mentioned. But I guess people will always have an excuse for Disney.

 

[Andrew C]

Isn't the announcement of attractions combined with the concept art a generally good idea of what to expect in a project, especially when there's been no indications of attraction changes mentioned. But I guess people will always have an excuse for Disney.

No, not necessarily.

Anyways, I understand many are upset (including myself) that they let the park get to this point.

And even though this is finally changing, I also understand that some will stay upset (not me, but probably you) unless Disney gives them exactly what they want and in the exact timetable that they prefer.

 

[UpAllNight]

No, not necessarily.

Anyways, I understand many are upset (including myself) that they let the park get to this point.

And even though this is finally changing, I also understand that some will stay upset (not me, but probably you) unless Disney gives them exactly what they want and in the exact timetable that they prefer.

I will wait for quality...Avatar looks ground breaking, immersive, using extraordinarily innovative theming and hopefully technology...it's taken ages but I understand. I'm hoping they up the game for Star Wars too, I'd love it sooner but if it's 2020 then fine - so long as they get it right. These 2 are next level projects in terms of their importance to their respective parks. In comparison, Toy Story isn't - it's a relatively cheap, risk free addition, similar aesthetically to 2 other lands they've built world wide (off concept art) and I genuinely see no reason why this couldn't be open spring 2017...to maybe help for summer of that year. As mentioned we struggled in the studios this year...I feel for people heading there 2016/2017 because I think it won't be a pleasant experience. And when you're midway through a 75 minute wait for one of the few attractions that there are, you start to question what your doing there.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Bureaucratic delays upset me as well. When Disney was a small company with Walt and Roy in indisputable charge, things certainly seemed to have happened faster. Perhaps too fast given the awful state of Disneyland the day it opened. Similarly, when a very sparse Disney MGM Studios opened in 1989, it was almost a joke. Today, the bloggers would be all over it, complaining that it's barely a "land" like Adventureland or Tomorrowland, much less a park.

Today, we are both less patient and more demanding of the final product. We want great stuff done quickly. Other companies seem more nimble, but one has to try to recall how long it took for all the Harry Potter stuff to be completed after Uni worked out the deal with Rowling. As I recall, that also took years to final completion, with steps being done along the way. One might argue that Disney can afford to be more deliberate in order to build something truly iconic and long-lasting. Who knows? Yet the slow pace bothers me as well.

 

[danlb_2000]

Meanwhile down the road at Seaworld, despite their financial pressures, they're well on with building their 200ft B&M...and it looks like it will have taken them maybe 10 months from start to finish. I believe they've also filled part of a lake in and done a load of complex work on the ground too. Fancy that.

IMHO, building this...

Is much easier then building this:

 

[UpAllNight]

IMHO, building this...
View attachment 127043

Is much easier then building this:

View attachment 127044

Don't agree with that; especially when you consider Seaworld are also doing work on their shark exhibits, part of it is being built over a lake etc.

Toy Story looks 'busy' in the concept art but there's a lot of basic level theming there and some buildings. The landscaping around the coaster could perhaps take a little while but I don't think it's an incredibly complex build at all. Multiple buildings can be put up at the same time if there's enough people working on it.

 

[danlb_2000]

Don't agree with that; especially when you consider Seaworld are also doing work on their shark exhibits, part of it is being built over a lake etc.

Toy Story looks 'busy' in the concept art but there's a lot of basic level theming there and some buildings. The landscaping around the coaster could perhaps take a little while but I don't think it's an incredibly complex build at all. Multiple buildings can be put up at the same time if there's enough people working on it.

I definitely cannot agree. Building a coaster like that is pretty straight forward. The theming and artistic details in a project like TSL are what takes a lot of extra time. All those places where you see the TSL coaster going down into ditches are places where they are going to have to build themed rock/earth works. All of the themed buildings will have to be built on site. There is also going to need to be landscaping and maybe more rockwork to hide the things outside of this land.