DHS Monster Inc Land Coming to Disney's Hollywood Studios

[Casper Gutman]

People have the right to their opinion. I prefer not to judge people too harshly for having a different point of view, but to me hating everything about a brand but then spending large sums of money on their products anyway is a lot more weird than just loving a brand. I know some people here will say that makes them “real” fans but again…weird prospective. Even more weird to me are people who supposedly stopped going to WDW years ago because of the product but still post continuously on Disney fan boards.

Who said anything about hating everything about a brand?

And who said anything about not going at all? There's a lot of room between visiting for several weeks a year and staying at Disney resorts and never going.

 

[FigmentJedi]

​

I believe this is the relevant clause:

i.​

East of The Mississippi - any other theme park is limited to using characters not currently being used by MCA at the time such other license is granted. [For purpose of this subsection and subsection iv, a character is “being used by MCA” if (x) it or another character of the same “family” (e.g., any member of THE FANTASTIC FOUR, THE AVENGERS or villains associated with a hero being used) is more than an incidental element of an attraction, is presented as a costumed character, or is more than an incidental element of the theming of a retail store or food facility; and, (y) in addition, if such character or another character from the same “family” is an element in any MCA marketing during the previous year. Any character who is only used as a costume character will not be considered to be “being used by MCA” unless it appears as more than an incidental element in MCA’s marketing.]​

Ant-Man and Black Panther are out - both are core Avengers. I suspect that if Uni wanted to challenge Strange, which they might if Disney pushed beyond pop-up meet-and-greets, they'd have a decent case.

Strange was never really an Avenger for most of his existence. Which is funny because the rest of his Defenders team are all characters that fall under Universal's contract.

 

[erasure fan1]

I know they canned Steve Whitmire because he spoke out against their handling of the Muppets (and if you ask me there’s tons of evidence proving this

Yup. You only have to look at the quality of the content they've released since they purchased them. The few bright spots have all been followed up with bad. You don't gain new fans by releasing low quality content.

It's a net gain of one attraction. Gaining door coaster and Monsters theatre show in the old MV3D theatre, and then losing MV3D.

Well it could have been a net of two, in a park that desperately needs the capacity. Especially since we most likely won't see anything in the courtyard for 10+yrs.

I mean how many failed attempts do we need to see as it relates to resurrecting this IP over the past 3o years. It doesn’t work.

Are they really trying to resurrect it? It doesn't work because it's been mostly bad. The Muppets are never going to have a billion dollar film or game of thrones impact series. But that shouldn't matter. The budgets are a rounding error in comparison to something like the acolyte or the marvels. Combined those 2 have lost more money than everything they've ever made with the Muppets.

No one will punish Disney. No one will hurt their bottom line. Fans will keep making excuses.

Yup, we see it in EVERY part of the company. This thread and the cars thread show it. The amount of excuses in those threads alone is staggering. Especially since absolutely NOTHING needs to be removed to get cars and monsters into the parks. Yet people make excuses for why it's a good plan.

It isn’t our job to punish Disney and it isn’t our fault they make the decisions they do. Nothing we do is going to change how Disney operates.

It is when the quality isn't there. I couldn't disagree more on the bolded. The consumer holds all the power. When people vote with their wallets, change will absolutely happen. The problem is that too many, like Casper said, make excuses. Disney knows they have the majority of the fans in their pocket. So they can continue to lower the experience with absolutely no fear.

 

[MickMinn22]

After letting the announcement settle in, I think this is a big positive to the park and this comes from a huge muppets fan who has a 3 year old obsessed with the show when we go.

You net one new attraction and a huge positive will be updates to pizzerizzo and mama melrose. Like others I sure hope they move MV3D over by RNRC eventually (not holding my breath though).

Another big thing which I said for TSI is you drastically increase the utilization of this space. It gives people shops and restaurants they will actually eat/shop at, and two attractions which will eat up guests which DHS drastically needs as it always seems too crowded.

 

[Fox&Hound]

I don’t think anyone forgets, I just think most people don’t take these things that personally and approach any replacement attraction as a new thing to be taken on it’s own.

While I understand that these parks have a lot of personal memories attached, there is a pocket of the fandom who seem to hold a grudge and get mad when others don’t. A lot of us have figured out that we can and will be sad about some things but that we ultimately have to move on because it’s out of our control.

We are not the villain here because we don’t want to hold a grudge against a theme park for taking an attraction out. In most cases, we feel just as sad as anyone else, but we choose not to hold onto that forever and ever and let it become some snowballing thing that turns us negative against anything and everything to do with the parks.

Things change, they come and they go, and part of being interested in an industry like this is learning to make peace with it. Some of us have made that peace, and some haven’t, but it’s not fair for those who haven’t to lay their frustrations at the feet of those of us who have. It isn’t our job to punish Disney and it isn’t our fault they make the decisions they do. Nothing we do is going to change how Disney operates.

Yes, so well said. People get so upset it makes me worried that they are worshipping at the altar of Disney and they don’t know how to live when their God lets them down. Breathe in, breathe out….
We can be critical and question choices, but I am not losing my faith in humanity over what Disney does in their theme parks.

 

[Disnutz311]

The rumors were for Wakanda without Black Panther -- which is why I never believed it would actually happen. Why build a land when you can't use the main character?

They already did! Galaxy's Edge without the OG characters that everyone wanted. Never doubt dumb ideas from the boardroom.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yes, so well said. People get so upset it makes me worried that they are worshipping at the altar of Disney and they don’t know how to live when their God lets them down. Breathe in, breathe out….
We can be critical and question choices, but I am not losing my faith in humanity over what Disney does in their theme parks.

Going to Disney World less often isn't "losing faith in humanity." What the heck?

 

[MickMinn22]

You understand that attractions cost money to staff and maintain, right?

Did you start following Disney last week?

Tell me about phase 2s. Tell me about the Epcot expansion and the pandemic. Tell me about the MGM overhaul.

lol a new attraction will also need to be maintained and staffed. So overall this is costing Disney a lot of money to replace the show not saving them. I get you’re not a fan of this move but this is just a crazy take. Plus if (and a massive IF) Disney does end up moving MV3D over by RNRC that is another huge cost for something already in place.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Another big thing which I said for TSI is you drastically increase the utilization of this space. It gives people shops and restaurants they will actually eat/shop at, and two attractions which will eat up guests which DHS drastically needs as it always seems too crowded.

It always seems crowded because it lacks capacity. More crowded spaces won’t somehow feel less crowded.

 

[Nevermore525]

After letting the announcement settle in, I think this is a big positive to the park and this comes from a huge muppets fan who has a 3 year old obsessed with the show when we go.

You net one new attraction and a huge positive will be updates to pizzerizzo and mama melrose. Like others I sure hope they move MV3D over by RNRC eventually (not holding my breath though).

Another big thing which I said for TSI is you drastically increase the utilization of this space. It gives people shops and restaurants they will actually eat/shop at, and two attractions which will eat up guests which DHS drastically needs as it always seems too crowded.

Biggest thing will be the primary guest draw at the back of the land, leading to the potential filter of guests to the restaurants, shops, and show as they exit the coaster or as they enter the land before going to the coaster. Currently it’s just MuppetVision3D and skip the rest for most (though a large chunk of guests just skip the area entirely).

It’s one of those the writing has been on the wall for Muppet Courtyard since Galaxy’s Edge was built. Removing the rear meet and greets and the Premier Theater and other means of egress for guests to filter through the area began the end of the road.

Add in Disney never re-opening the shops, and the restaurants being subpar at best, it’s an easy target for replacement.

 

[MickMinn22]

It always seems crowded because it lacks capacity. More crowded spaces won’t somehow feel less crowded.

This put more people in a completely new attraction (capacity), more people in an updated show (capacity), more people in a newly themed quick service (capacity), and more people in a newly themed restaurant (capacity).

Currently it’s just MuppetVision3D and skip the rest for most (though a large chunk of guests just skip the area entirely).

This is exactly it, greatly underutilized area in a very busy theme park.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This put more people in a completely new attraction (capacity), more people in an updated show (capacity), more people in a newly themed quick service (capacity), and more people in a newly themed restaurant (capacity).

Only the coaster is adding capacity. The updated show only has more capacity if they fit in more seats and/or it’s a shorter show. Pretty much the same for dining, except you can’t really force people to leave so you lack control over turnover, so you’re just left with cramming in more seats.

 

[The Leader of the Club]

It always seems crowded because it lacks capacity. More crowded spaces won’t somehow feel less crowded.

It will though. There’s a new coaster, which will draw a lot of people to the back of the land.
HarryHausen’s will be much more popular than Melrose, meaning more people will get reservations there instead of Sci-Fi or Brown Derby.
The PizzeRizzo replacement may actually be edible and have decent hours which will mean more people choose to eat there than ABC Comm. Or Backlot Express.

 

[GoofGoof]

It always seems crowded because it lacks capacity. More crowded spaces won’t somehow feel less crowded.

Monsters Land will definitely not feel less crowded than Muppets courtyard did. That area was always pretty empty. Assuming there isn’t a major spike in overall DHS attendance and people don’t spend a lot of extra time in the park each day in theory the rest of the park may feel a little less crowded if more people spend time in Monsters land. My guess is that won’t typically be the case though. People will just spend a little more time at DHS to accommodate the extra land they will visit and the rest of the park will feel about the same.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It will though. There’s a new coaster, which will draw a lot of people to the back of the land.
HarryHausen’s will be much more popular than Melrose, meaning more people will get reservations there instead of Sci-Fi or Brown Derby.
The PizzeRizzo replacement may actually be edible and have decent hours which will mean more people choose to eat there than ABC Comm. Or Backlot Express.

Now account for induced demand to the park. Anything drawing that much from within the park is also drawing additional visitation to the park.

 

[MickMinn22]

Only the coaster is adding capacity. The updated show only has more capacity if they fit in more seats and/or it’s a shorter show. Pretty much the same for dining, except you can’t really force people to leave so you lack control over turnover, so you’re just left with cramming in more seats.

Ok fair point, you are not increase # of seats. I’m more talking about more people will be in those seats than they currently are. I’d have to guess with an all new theme more people will be sitting and eating in new pizzerizzo and new mana melrose than currently are. Also (and I love MV3D so I find it crazy not every show is packed) I’d expect more people to be sitting in the new show compared to MV3D.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Monsters Land will definitely not feel less crowded than Muppets courtyard did. That area was always pretty empty. Assuming there isn’t a major spike in overall DHS attendance and people don’t spend a lot of extra time in the park each day in theory the rest of the park may feel a little less crowded if more people spend time in Monsters land. My guess is that won’t typically be the case though. People will just spend a little more time at DHS to accommodate the extra land they will visit and the rest of the park will feel about the same.

Crowding is relative and in the case of Walt Disney World it is intentional. Disney will work to make sure it feels crowded. That’s why they’re still not adding significant capacity and doing a lot of replacing. It’s a huge benefit because people voluntarily make up reasons for why they have to accept guest-hostile decisions.

 

[GoofGoof]

Crowding is relative and in the case of Walt Disney World it is intentional. Disney will work to make sure it feels crowded. That’s why they’re still not adding significant capacity and doing a lot of replacing. It’s a huge benefit because people voluntarily make up reasons for why they have to accept guest-hostile decisions.

If crowding is what they want I think they will likely get it here. The land is a dead end with the most popular ride in the back. It’s definitely going to feel full in there even with removing the gift shop and creating the outdoor space.

 

[Disnutz311]

​

I believe this is the relevant clause:

i.​

East of The Mississippi - any other theme park is limited to using characters not currently being used by MCA at the time such other license is granted. [For purpose of this subsection and subsection iv, a character is “being used by MCA” if (x) it or another character of the same “family” (e.g., any member of THE FANTASTIC FOUR, THE AVENGERS or villains associated with a hero being used) is more than an incidental element of an attraction, is presented as a costumed character, or is more than an incidental element of the theming of a retail store or food facility; and, (y) in addition, if such character or another character from the same “family” is an element in any MCA marketing during the previous year. Any character who is only used as a costume character will not be considered to be “being used by MCA” unless it appears as more than an incidental element in MCA’s marketing.]​

Ant-Man and Black Panther are out - both are core Avengers. I suspect that if Uni wanted to challenge Strange, which they might if Disney pushed beyond pop-up meet-and-greets, they'd have a decent case.

What I still can't understand is what does Disney actually think these rights are worth? No doubt they have tried to trade or purchase at one time. But what was their offer? If they are keeping Animation Courtyard for bigger things, then isn't buying Marvel theme park rights worth 500 million? 750 million? Is Universal actually making tons of money off the IP or it's simply protecting attendance? Has to be the later.

I'm not in the C-Suite of both companies, but 500 million gets Disney the rights and Universal a new land makeover paid for. Marvel Merch & F&B would make Disney a billion in a 3 year ROI for sure. Has to be Universal saying not for sale at any price.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What I still can't understand is what does Disney actually think these rights are worth? No doubt they have tried to trade or purchase at one time. But what was their offer? If they are keeping Animation Courtyard for bigger things, then isn't buying Marvel theme park rights worth 500 million? 750 million? Is Universal actually making tons of money off the IP or it's simply protecting attendance? Has to be the later.

I'm not in the C-Suite of both companies, but 500 million gets Disney the rights and Universal a new land makeover paid for. Marvel Merch & F&B would make Disney a billion in a 3 year ROI for sure. Has to be Universal saying not for sale at any price.

Universal now builds $800 million plus lands, why would they want just a $500 million land? Why would they not want some nice extra profit too? Why would they give up a very low, generally consistent licensing fee?

On the Disney side, even that low price of $500 million is a cost associated with this hypothetical land. That’s half a billion dollars just dropped on top of Disney’s already high costs with nothing to actually to show for it.