Monorail Update January 2015

[Creathir]

But may

But maybe you won't be jealous when the automation is finished.

As described by others, it's more of an auto pilot rather than a full blown automated train. There still will be a CM behind the controls to take over on an as needed basis, just like on an airliner.

The planes these days can take off, fly, and land on their own, but the pilot and co-pilot are still there to organize things and take the controls as needed.

So, from a CM perspective, the jobs probably gets a little more boring, but they should be secure in the knowledge that their job is likely not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[dizda]

As described by others, it's more of an auto pilot rather than a full blown automated train. There still will be a CM behind the controls to take over on an as needed basis, just like on an airliner.

The planes these days can take off, fly, and land on their own, but the pilot and co-pilot are still there to organize things and take the controls as needed.

So, from a CM perspective, the jobs probably gets a little more boring, but they should be secure in the knowledge that their job is likely not going anywhere anytime soon.

That is so odd that Disney would go to the trouble to "automate" the monorail but that they would still have monorail pilots. It seems needing a pilot defeats the purpose of automation.

 

[Creathir]

That is so odd that Disney would go to the trouble to "automate" the monorail but that they would still have monorail pilots. It seems needing a pilot defeats the purpose of automation.

Not really as they can operate closer and in a synchronized fashion, increasing safety and speed.

The first automobiles that are autonomous will work the same way. Having a person to fall back on in tricky situations (navigating the switches for instance) will be very beneficial. Someday they might automate them fully, but my guess it will be the next generation of trains.

 

[dizda]

Not really as they can operate closer and in a synchronized fashion, increasing safety and speed.

The first automobiles that are autonomous will work the same way. Having a person to fall back on in tricky situations (navigating the switches for instance) will be very beneficial. Someday they might automate them fully, but my guess it will be the next generation of trains.

That makes more sense, and I suppose the monorail system is more complicated than the fully automated transportation systems you see at airports and in urban centers. It just seems that they could make the leap to full automation with what technology is available, but I suppose not yet. Of course, from a reputational and liability standpoint, I can understand why Disney would take the automation in stages, even if the technology would already allow full automation.

 

[Monorail_Red]

I saw this video:

And noticed one of the former "co-pilot" benches in each cab has been replaced with some sort of a cabinet. Any idea what that is?

 

[Figment2005]

I saw this video:

And noticed one of the former "co-pilot" benches in each cab has been replaced with some sort of a cabinet. Any idea what that is?

New computer system for automation.

 

[Robbiemoo]

That makes more sense, and I suppose the monorail system is more complicated than the fully automated transportation systems you see at airports and in urban centers. It just seems that they could make the leap to full automation with what technology is available, but I suppose not yet. Of course, from a reputational and liability standpoint, I can understand why Disney would take the automation in stages, even if the technology would already allow full automation.

You're right automatic operation gives benefits for consistency of operation and helps with capacity. While the trains could run with no one on them you may need to upgrade other infrastructure for safety if this happened like putting in evacuation walkways for easy access to stuck trains which you might not need with a pilot onboard

 

[nace888]

I still wish I could have driven one of these trains, even if just once... :S They're still amazing trains though!! And I like that the current fleet is being retrofitted too!!

As I'd said in the past, I feel like they're doing this to ensure that the automated process works, before bringing in new automated trains that won't even work. XD

 

[s8film40]

As I'd said in the past, I feel like they're doing this to ensure that the automated process works, before bringing in new automated trains that won't even work. XD

I don't think this is a test to see if it works. If they wanted to see if it works or not, all they have to do is look at the Las Vegas monorail or other automated systems as an example. The Las Vegas automation is far more complex than what WDW is implementing. Unfortunately I think the fact they are investing so much in these trains really just means they will be around for a while.

 

[Figment2005]

I don't think this is a test to see if it works. If they wanted to see if it works or not, all they have to do is look at the Las Vegas monorail or other automated systems as an example. The Las Vegas automation is far more complex than what WDW is implementing. Unfortunately I think the fact they are investing so much in these trains really just means they will be around for a while.

Actually one of the biggest hurdles with this project is that the system is a closed loop. Nothing had been retrofitted to a design like that before.

 

[s8film40]

Actually one of the biggest hurdles with this project is that the system is a closed loop. Nothing had been retrofitted to a design like that before.

That's true I guess. Every system is a little different in its own way of course. While it's different I don't think there was any doubt as to the technology. A closed loop is different but it is not as complex as switchbeams at the end of each line.

 

[Creathir]

That's true I guess. Every system is a little different in its own way of course. While it's different I don't think there was any doubt as to the technology. A closed loop is different but it is not as complex as switchbeams at the end of each line.

Well, it's a closed loop with bi-directional traffic and interconnecting switchbeams, various spurs and other interconnecting loops.

It's extremely more complicated (from a traffic management/intersection standpoint) than really any other fully automated system implemented to date.

I personally think the lessons learned here will be applied to future generations of the trains. Additionally this might be a public acceptance issue as well. A fully autonomous system may cause a few people to get nervous about the system safety.

Finally, the last thing Disney would want to do is drop in brand new trains and then one of them crashes or something.

PR nightmare.

I think Disney is doing this the right way, it will be exciting when it's fully in place.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well, it's a closed loop with bi-directional traffic and interconnecting switchbeams, various spurs and other interconnecting loops.

It's extremely more complicated (from a traffic management/intersection standpoint) than really any other fully automated system implemented to date.

I personally think the lessons learned here will be applied to future generations of the trains. Additionally this might be a public acceptance issue as well. A fully autonomous system may cause a few people to get nervous about the system safety.

Finally, the last thing Disney would want to do is drop in brand new trains and then one of them crashes or something.

PR nightmare.

I think Disney is doing this the right way, it will be exciting when it's fully in place.

Aside from there being no need for new trains, they wouldn't magically react to software differently.

 

[Flalex72]

Well, it's a closed loop with bi-directional traffic and interconnecting switchbeams, various spurs and other interconnecting loops.

It's extremely more complicated (from a traffic management/intersection standpoint) than really any other fully automated system implemented to date.

I personally think the lessons learned here will be applied to future generations of the trains. Additionally this might be a public acceptance issue as well. A fully autonomous system may cause a few people to get nervous about the system safety.

Finally, the last thing Disney would want to do is drop in brand new trains and then one of them crashes or something.

PR nightmare.

I think Disney is doing this the right way, it will be exciting when it's fully in place.

Thales has installed SELTrac UTO on systems that are far more complex than the WDW Monorail. The fact that it's a monorail doesn't matter, a train is a train from a software perspective and comparisons to other automated systems should not be limited to other monorails. Every system is unique, and will have its own share of issues, but there's nothing crazy about the WDW Monorail. Most of the issues so far have been interfacing the new system of controls into the existing controls on the trains. New trains would be designed to work with the signalling system from the very beginning. Indeed, Thales and Bombardier have a long history of SELTrac integration, going back to it's very first installation, and most other train manufacturers are no different. The chance of new trains being put onto the system and then crashing is next to impossible. The fact that the system is a loop does cause some difficulties, but these are scheduling problems, not critical issues, and these bugs can safely be worked out after the system is up and running.

 

[s8film40]

Well, it's a closed loop with bi-directional traffic and interconnecting switchbeams, various spurs and other interconnecting loops.

It's extremely more complicated (from a traffic management/intersection standpoint) than really any other fully automated system implemented to date.

It sounds like you may not be aware of how the WDW system is being automated. Unlike the Las Vegas monorail the switches are not part of the automation, the trains will only use the switches when going in/out of service. Also unlike the Las Vegas monorail the WDW monorail is actually not bi-directional. While yes they have monorails operating in both directions they are completely separate lines.

 

[Robbiemoo]

The tube in London is having a similar upgrade to automatic operation using Thales signalling. So far two lines have been converted and another four are planned. They have left drivers in the cab for safety reasons.

If they can fit this technology on 100 plus year old subway systems then I'm sure fitting the WDW system will be relatively straight forward

 

[ford91exploder]

I think as usual Disney is dragging out the spend so CAPEX Q over Q can be kept low, The fact that it costs more in the end is irrelevant just look how Iger talks up fractions of a percent 'gains' in park operating results. Just more financial engineering getting in the way of real engineering.

 

[Creathir]

It sounds like you may not be aware of how the WDW system is being automated. Unlike the Las Vegas monorail the switches are not part of the automation, the trains will only use the switches when going in/out of service. Also unlike the Las Vegas monorail the WDW monorail is actually not bi-directional. While yes they have monorails operating in both directions they are completely separate lines.

Yes, I know its not automated within the switches. I was stating reasons on why that is the case. Sorry if that was not clear.

 

[DisneyFans4Life]

So I was talking with one of the CMs on the loading dock about the monorail track and he mentioned that they can only power wash about 25 feet of track each night.

Any idea if this is accurate or how involved it is to power wash the track? 25 feet doesn't sound like much.

 

[s8film40]

So I was talking with one of the CMs on the loading dock about the monorail track and he mentioned that they can only power wash about 25 feet of track each night.

Any idea if this is accurate or how involved it is to power wash the track? 25 feet doesn't sound like much.

That doesn't sound exactly right. If my memory is correct I think I have seen them do at least one or two beam segments overnight. Each beam is about 100 feet long.