Monorail Update January 2015

[Figment2005]

The departments don't get what they request always, they get a number and they have to make do with whatever they actually get. It's like any other business in that respect. Boss wants a new X (like automated control system) but still has to staff and maintain as well for the year, something else has to give.

Exactly this. You cannot look at Walt Disney World as a single sharing entity. Each department from food service, hotels, transportation, attractions are all separate entities, and each of those is divided even further into more specific parts. For example, Food Service is divided into ODF(outdoor foods), quick service, table service, catering, etc. and each of those has their own budget that is completely separate from the others. Disney is the root of the tree, and the departments are the branches. The branches rarely cross and all must share the nutrients supplied by the roots.

 

[ptaylor]

Also, great service is much different than great condition. The majority of the time, yes downtimes happen, the monorails get the guests to and from the parks. This is their job, to transport guests to and from the parks.

Sorry to say I can't agree with that. The monorails do not provide great service - far from it.

I've been counting, and in my last 10 trips to Magic Kingdom in 2015, I've only been able to board the monorail twice. 8 times it has been closed. I am just greeted at the TTC by a monorail CM just shouting to guests "we're down, take the ferry". Great service? Nope.

Besides the previously mentioned interior trim condition and appalling reliability, the monorails are overcrowded, have poor HVAC, poor onboard audio, and are just not enjoyable to ride. Sadly, the articulated busses are more enjoyable to ride from the TTC to the MK. At least they smell OK, have decent AC, and don't constantly breakdown.

Outside of the actual monorails, the TTC is in terrible condition, as is the beam (outside of Epcot) - it's embarrassing. The Epcot station isn't much better.

So for me, the monorails fail in every category that I can judge them on - condition and service. The entire system just screams neglect and years of lack of investment.

And again, I am not aiming this at the daily cast, my complaint is with the management of Disney, at whatever level that is, that has neglected the monorail system to this extent for the last 20 years.

 

[polynesiangirl]

I'm pretty Pollyanna-ish about a lot of WDW stuff (God knows I continue to throw my money at them so I better own that,) but man, the state of the monorails really bums me out. I get that they are old, but come on...it should not be this hard to keep them cleaner than they are. The last three trips we've had we got stuck in a car due to mechanical problems. Once we ended up going from Epcot to TTC at about 5 miles an hour after sitting at the station for probably 30 minutes.

The powers that be at WDW who decide what the money gets spent on should not be especially proud of the condition the trains are in right now, in my opinion.

 

[ChrisFL]

Exactly this. You cannot look at Walt Disney World as a single sharing entity. Each department from food service, hotels, transportation, attractions are all separate entities, and each of those is divided even further into more specific parts. For example, Food Service is divided into ODF(outdoor foods), quick service, table service, catering, etc. and each of those has their own budget that is completely separate from the others. Disney is the root of the tree, and the departments are the branches. The branches rarely cross and all must share the nutrients supplied by the roots.

I'll take this time to mention that from my experience working with ODF and related departments, I believe the budgets and divisons are separated between the parks and the departments don't seem to talk to each other....meaning ODF at MK does things differently than ODF at Epcot

 

[fngoofy]

The Tokyo Disneyland monorail runs the whole time and is *spotless*, always in tip-top shape, so the idea that it's not possible to keep a high-usage monorail looking good is ridiculous.

Maintenance is a part of the operating costs, and if Disney can't afford to allocate enough money to operate them properly, it can't afford to operate a monorail and should close the system down, simple as that.

If Disney sees value in the system, it should cough up the cash, instead of trying to get away with standards more at home on the New York subway.

Comparing a transit system in Japan to the US is ridiculous. Two very, very different cultures when it comes to trash, fluids of all kinds, and changing Jr. on the train.
Would you like to know when the Monorails were semi pristine? Back in the 70s when the Mark IVs had bench seats, individual doors, and you had to wait for the CM to close each and every door. You got to cozy up to strangers, sit side by side and knee to knee (two bench seats facing each other. I swear, the things people complain about. Go start your own park and do it better then.

 

[MonorailMan]

And lets not forget that the Tokyo DL monorail is not 26 years old. It opened in 2001. Totally incomparable to each other.

 

[erstwo]

People. That carpet pattern might very well be (and probably is) straight.

Patterned carpet, wall paper, etc is a tricky thing. You have to decide what to 'line up' with and whether you want the pattern to be truly straight (straight line despite any variances in the floor/ceiling height, etc.) or 'in line with' (in this case, 'in line with the back of the seat, in line with the distance to the floor' etc)

In those photos specifically, it looks like the carpet is in line with the back of the seat and the little placard, but the box/ unit/ control thingy is actually what is crooked or out of plumb.

Maybe I'm wrong (it's happened before) but that's what I see?

 

[matt9112]

I will just say yes. Won't go into any detail.

why dont you burst into the COOs office? like a boss.....

 

[lazyboy97o]

I see the trains EVERY DAY. I know what there condition is, and I know more about their condition than a guest who visits a few times a year. The guests are the primary reason the trains stay in the condition they are in for as long as they do. Disney is being gracious by making sure the guests have transportation to and from the Magic Kingdom and Epcot, and when the trains are down the guests get angry.

Those trains go though hell every single day because the Magic Kingdom is open all the time for the guests. Guests leave trash, stain the carpet with various fluids, scuff up the moldings, tear up the seats, etc. The management does not do that, the cast members do not do that, only the guests. If you want the trains in the condition they were when new, that will never happen unless the trains go out of service for an extended period of time, and once again if you following the pattern, guests will complain constantly in the parks and on this very website. Disney can't win.

So when Disney IS investing money into the trains, in more ways that you know, instead of complaining that the carpeting isn't perfectly straight, enjoy what you have because I guarantee you that the carpets won't look new once summer comes.

Its all about budgets. Those other transportation systems that you mention all cost something to board. The resort beam is the only one that has any funding, and that is because of the resorts. Those resorts do not pay as much as you might think into the monorail fund, and being a non-profiting department means they can't just spend millions of dollars refurbishing everything every night to keep them looking new. They have to pick and choose what to fix and what can be tolerated until the funds become available.

Millions of dollars are going into the new train control system, and once that is completed maybe they can afford to spend the money else ware. Until then, they are trying to make the passenger cabins look better by replacing the carpets and hopefully the seats, and replacing the motors and other running gear to make the trains smoother and more reliable. This all takes time, and complaining that the carpets are not perfectly straight is just wanting to cause trouble.

Everything you describe ultimately all comes down to management. Management set up the competing business units business plans. Management sets the operating hours. Management sets the budgets. Management set the personal count.

 

[zakattack99]

I love the nostalgic look of the carpet. But why cant they color the pink stripe on the inside to match the monorail color? That has always bothered me.

Yes dose anyone have an answer for this? The pink color has always bothered me as well. Reminds me of something out of Power Rangers not sure why but it dose.

 

[Tom]

Yes dose anyone have an answer for this? The pink color has always bothered me as well. Reminds me of something out of Power Rangers not sure why but it dose.

Does?

 

[Figment2005]

Yes dose anyone have an answer for this? The pink color has always bothered me as well. Reminds me of something out of Power Rangers not sure why but it dose.

Been like that since the beginning, and would require swapping out the panels. I've always thought they would look better with matching colors.

 

[BrerJon]

Comparing a transit system in Japan to the US is ridiculous. Two very, very different cultures when it comes to trash, fluids of all kinds, and changing Jr. on the train.
Would you like to know when the Monorails were semi pristine? Back in the 70s when the Mark IVs had bench seats, individual doors, and you had to wait for the CM to close each and every door. You got to cozy up to strangers, sit side by side and knee to knee (two bench seats facing each other. I swear, the things people complain about. Go start your own park and do it better then.

Plenty of people do it better. There are monorails and train systems all over the world that get just as many passengers and don't suffer these problems.

Look at the London Underground. That's been running for over a century, runs promptly on time, is cleaned and cars are always in good condition, even the older stock, but when cars reach the end of their life they are replaced.

Do those other systems keep up to date because they charge people to ride and therefore have the money they need? Yes. But newsflash, Walt Disney World has all the money it needs. Now are they not giving the monorail department enough money to work with, undoubtedly, but the point of this thread has not been to criticise those running the monorails, but the higher level that thinks it can run a decent service without putting in the investment.

If Disney abolished custodial crews and let the parks fill with litter, would that be OK? By your justification, it would be, because guests are more slovenly than they were in the 70s. No, if there's more trash, they pay for more custodials, and it's the same with the monorails. You pay whatever you need to to keep it in tip-top standard, or you shouldn't run the system at all.

 

[P_Radden]

First post on WDWmagic

I am really glad to see this discussion about the current state of WDW monorails. We just returned from a trip to WDW. This is the first time I've been to WDW since 1998. I was shocked to see the condition of the monorail trains. Not only did they stink like a porta-potty, they were in terrible all around condition. Aside from what has already been discussed in this thread, one train, the doors would not close completely, so a CM had to push/slam them shut. The tracks them selves are covered with black mold and rust. The "DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE" signs were falling off and also looked terrible. I was appalled at this overall lack of care by management. I understand it costs major $$$ to replace all the trains, but the tracks wouldn't take much to look like new. It actually bugged us so bad, when we got to MK, I saw a group of managers (dressed in formal office wear) standing in Tommorrow Land, pointing and talking about the park. I waked over to the group and talked to a man named Jason politely about the monorail conditions. I asked if Disney had any plans to replace the monorail trains with new ones. Pointed out that the current Mark VI trains were installed in 1991 ("To complete the modernization" LOL as they like to tell you over the audio system when you ride the monorail.... What a way to point out the obvious Disney!). Jason looked confused, like the thought had never been discussed! I told him they were in terrible condition and that with the innovative skills and $$$ WDW is known for, they should get new trains with sleek upgraded interiors utilizing LED technologies and LCD screens for entertainment/resort info. Come on, this is 2015 for gosh sakes!! It simply is not acceptable to continue operating the monorails the way they look. Jason acted like it was a cool idea, but that was as far as our conversation went. He had no info for me, acted like he hasn't even been on one in years, nor did he act like he was in any position to pass along our concern. Oh well, I'm glad they were at least he was nice enough to pause their meeting and have the discussion with us. Hopefully the concern will stick with one of them.

What has changed at WDW or DTO management to where simple stuff like this is overlooked? Is it a simple matter of not allocating a budget for a monorail system overhaul? Or is it a matter of lack of priority? As Figment said, the CMs who work with the monorails daily have been dealing with this situation for quite some time. WHY the hell hasn't something been done before now to correct this?

Thanks for letting me vent

 

[BrerJon]

First post on WDWmagic

What has changed at WDW or DTO management to where simple stuff like this is overlooked? Is it a simple matter of not allocating a budget for a monorail system overhaul? Or is it a matter of lack of priority? As Figment said, the CMs who work with the monorails daily have been dealing with this situation for quite some time. WHY the hell hasn't something been done before now to correct this?

Thanks for letting me vent

Welcome to the site, that's a great first post.

I think what changed was the introduction of Strategic Planning, a system where every square foot of Disney space, every attraction, has a return on investment figure and has to earn its keep. Instead of one pot to cover whatever was needed, as it was in the early Eisner years, suddenly every department had to be a profit center, and bare minimum budgets were allocated, leading to the state of affairs we have today.

Disney used to spare no expense to keep things immaculate, which is how they got such a brilliant reputation, but now the philosophy is spare the bare minimum, as if any guests do notice, they'll still most probably visit, and if they don't there's a line of people waiting to replace them and attendance continues to climb.

 

[P_Radden]

So it all comes down to corporate penny-pinching to maximize profits? Big surprise there I guess. It absolutely drives me crazy that the companies and brands we admire are all going this route these days. How many BILLIONS does any single company need to stack and stack? I know this is completely off topic, but I am also a BMW enthusiast from when they actually made simple, fun to drive cars. We are constantly having this same discussion on BMW forums. The new cars are cheap crap, designed to look good, but are overly complicated with cheap parts and cheap electronics. The look good enough to sell, but are a nightmare to own and live with. BMW AG is raking in millions in profits from skimping out on quality. I can't believe people who are in charge of companies with great reputations that took decades to build are willing to let them go to $hit simply to maximize profits, especially when they have ooodles of money in the bank. The Quandt family who is majority share holders in BMW is the wealthiest family in Germany and they are choosing to let the brand quality go to crap to continue maximizing their profits. Does the Disney family not give a care that their image/reputation is slipping so badly? Does the Disney family actually have any say over the day-to-day operations at the parks or are they solely focused on profits and shareholders?

Jeez it feels good to get that off my chest. Sry for the rant again haha

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Plenty of people do it better. There are monorails and train systems all over the world that get just as many passengers and don't suffer these problems.

Look at the London Underground. That's been running for over a century, runs promptly on time, is cleaned and cars are always in good condition, even the older stock, but when cars reach the end of their life they are replaced.

As long as we get excited by the addition of new carpeting, nothing much will change.

We've set our collective target very low.

Heck, the most exciting thing on this site in recent years is the removal of something.

We get little because we settle for little.

 

[peter11435]

So it all comes down to corporate penny-pinching to maximize profits? Big surprise there I guess. It absolutely drives me crazy that the companies and brands we admire are all going this route these days. How many BILLIONS does any single company need to stack and stack? I know this is completely off topic, but I am also a BMW enthusiast from when they actually made simple, fun to drive cars. We are constantly having this same discussion on BMW forums. The new cars are cheap ****, designed to look good, but are overly complicated with cheap parts and cheap electronics. The look good enough to sell, but are a nightmare to own and live with. BMW AG is raking in millions in profits from skimping out on quality. I can't believe people who are in charge of companies with great reputations that took decades to build are willing to let them go to $hit simply to maximize profits, especially when they have ooodles of money in the bank. The Quandt family who is majority share holders in BMW is the wealthiest family in Germany and they are choosing to let the brand quality go to **** to continue maximizing their profits. Does the Disney family not give a care that their image/reputation is slipping so badly? Does the Disney family actually have any say over the day-to-day operations at the parks or are they solely focused on profits and shareholders?

Jeez it feels good to get that off my chest. Sry for the rant again haha

Nobody within the Disney family has any say or power at The Walt Disney Company.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

The problem with the monorail conditions is simply that Bombardier probably no longer makes parts to properly service/refresh them. Disney and Bombardier probably have a contract in place that the latter is to provide (at least certain) parts for X number of years after delivery. For the few trains that Disney runs, I'm sure there isn't a warehouse full of every conceivable part. That's not to say that Disney couldn't commission a new batch of Part X, but it's an expensive proposition. In the long run, if there are new trains in the not too distant future... What Disney is doing right now is buying time without investing unnecessarily. Either that - or they're just being cheap with a "good enough" attitude. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[COProgressFan]

Everyone on this site knows that TDL is the exception to the Disney rule when it comes to the parks. That park is completely funded by a private company, and Disney only supplies the creative talent. I'm not saying Disney is right for their current record, but comparing the U.S. parks to the Japan parks is like comparing Apples to Orangutans.

Japan may be a completely different situation, but WDW of 2015 can be compared to WDW of 1988 or 1998. And in 1998 or 1988 the resort was operated like a world-class establishment with high standards for maintenance and cleanliness. The condition of the monorails is a clear indication of how the resort is run today.

Many of the criticisms on this site are the result of comparign WDW of today to its previous, better self. Which I believe is a fair, valid comparison. They were the ones who set the bar so high, and conditioned us to expect the best.