Monorail Spur

[thehowiet]

That makes sense and does sound like an easy upgrade. The only thing throwing me off is how much time they are saying something so small is going to take to build. The article says that they will begin excavation work soon and the project will be completed by the end of the year. So the excavation and building of two pylons and a 62 foot beam will take that long?

 

[Tom]

That makes sense and does sound like an easy upgrade. The only thing throwing me off is how much time they are saying something so small is going to take to build. The article says that they will begin excavation work soon and the project will be completed by the end of the year. So the excavation and building of two pylons and a 62 foot beam will take that long?

Yes. If not longer. 6 months isn't very long to build anything.

And since they'll be working in the immediate vicinity of guests, and adjacent to active track, they have to work very carefully.

For the track immediately adjacent to existing track, they'll have to work during the 4-6 overnight hours that the monorails actually shut down.

As for the switch itself (if they need one), that entire monorail loop will be out of commission while they build the switch. That will be months all by itself.

EDIT: This beam will still need electrical service to it, since live trains will be pulling onto and off of it, and since they still need power to do maintenance. And with it being off of a switch, it will need it's own transformer because it will be isolated from the rest of the loop

 

[s8film40]

Yes. If not longer. 6 months isn't very long to build anything.

And since they'll be working in the immediate vicinity of guests, and adjacent to active track, they have to work very carefully.

For the track immediately adjacent to existing track, they'll have to work during the 4-6 overnight hours that the monorails actually shut down.

As for the switch itself (if they need one), that entire monorail loop will be out of commission while they build the switch. That will be months all by itself.

EDIT: This beam will still need electrical service to it, since live trains will be pulling onto and off of it, and since they still need power to do maintenance. And with it being off of a switch, it will need it's own transformer because it will be isolated from the rest of the loop

They will not be building a switch. The beam will not be for trains so no power will be needed.

 

[Tom]

They will not be building a switch. The beam will not be for trains so no power will be needed.

I don't think either of those are certain at this point. At least one article said that they may also use this "spur" for trains parked in holding patterns. That would require power.

And I also don't think Disney has released a map showing exactly where this spur would go - unless I missed an entire thread or series of posts somewhere along the lines.

EDIT: I completely missed Jason's blog! I retract some of my statements above. I still stand by my comments of this being a 6-month project due to beam fabrication time and construction in proximity to guests.

 

[s8film40]

I don't think either of those are certain at this point. At least one article said that they may also use this "spur" for trains parked in holding patterns. That would require power.

And I also don't think Disney has released a map showing exactly where this spur would go - unless I missed an entire thread or series of posts somewhere along the lines.

Well yes it is true that they didn't specifically say that exactly. This is the way I am looking at it. The Sentinel article is citing an official Disney source so I am taking everything in that article as fact and the TMS article as speculation based on an informed source.

With that being said the Sentinel reports the following:

Disney said Tuesday it will build a 62-foot maintenance spur off of the system’s Epcot line to serve as a permanent staging area for one of the work tractors used by the resort to tow broken-down trains and inspect and repair track.

A 62 foot spur will rule out any possibility of a 200 foot monorail being parked or traveling on it. Additionally they only talk about this being used for a tow tractor.

The extension will be built next to an existing track switch that is used to transfer trains between the Epcot line and a separate spur leading to one of the system’s two Magic Kingdom loops.

This statement definitively identifies the location of the spur since there is only one switch actually on the Epcot beam.

In addition this set up makes perfect sense because it is the cheapest and easiest way to accomplish this. They could still park a train and service it if they wanted on the existing Epcot spur. They could make it easier to do this simply by building a platform. It just doesn't make sense to build a new switch and sizable amounts of beamway when it is not necessary.

 

[s8film40]

EDIT: I completely missed Jason's blog! I retract some of my statements above. I still stand by my comments of this being a 6-month project due to beam fabrication time and construction in proximity to guests.

Guess I replied too quickly, sorry.
I agree it will take some time, there is no way they can do a lot of this construction with passenger carrying trains, and live power so very close.

 

[s8film40]

For those who want to get a better perspective of where this is watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb_qhX4iajI
At 1:55 you will see the switch at 2:00 you will see the location for the new spur, when you look at it it makes a lot more sense.

 

[fabroman]

How exactly do the monorail switches work?

 

[JungleTrekFan]

For those who want to get a better perspective of where this is watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb_qhX4iajI
At 1:55 you will see the switch at 2:00 you will see the location for the new spur, when you look at it it makes a lot more sense.

Sooo, its east of the epcot line and will connect to the spur (when the switch is not being used to transfer monorails in betwean the epcot and express lines)?

 

[s8film40]

Sooo, its east of the epcot line and will connect to the spur (when the switch is not being used to transfer monorails in betwean the epcot and express lines)?

Yes, it's a beam replacement switch which means it's actually two switches in one. So when the main line switch is on the main line the spur switch is lined up to the new beam. When the switch is lined up to the main line the work tractor can travel out onto the spur. When the switch is on the spur line the monorail can travel onto the spur and if the work tractor is on the spur can travel onto the main line.

 

[jrlang1]

http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2010/07/disney-world-plans-small-monorail-expansion/

I think the TMS article was making some assumption on how a small addition like this could be useful, the Sentinel article cites an official WDW source so I think it is more in line with what will actually be built. This was what confused me from the very beginning the TMS version talked about building a switch which would not be necessary if using the offset position of the already existing switch. So this makes much more sense, they will only have to build two pylons and one 62 foot beam and they don't need to support the full weight of a monorail as well as no electrical components. All in all an easy upgrade with a big benefit.

Thank You for the link.

When they are talking about storage for offline trains/minor maintance i am willing to bet they mean the transfer line itself. all you would need is a short platform just long enough for the tractor. THis platform would be close the the transfer beam and may be used for maintance or to allow a driver the get out. you cant get very far away from the other beam with only 62 feet of track

 

[ERich2010]

do you think it would be cheaper for them to build it closer to the ground?

this is all hypothetical,but if they were to add another loop to animal kingdom, wouldnt that be more economical? like an RTA, but still with the monorail design?

idk, im just throwin stuff out there now haha

 

[AndyMagic]

And once again, a monorail/train/subway system is not effective for the WDW guest flow. High peaks of ridership at certain periods of the day isn't easily handled by a system where it is difficult to quickly add and remove capacity.

This is completely false. Trains are the best way to move large amounts of people, especially at times when there is a sudden spike in demand at a given time of day. Transit systems in major cities across the world work marvelously during rush-hours when usage suddenly increases five-times that of the midday ridership. There isn't an issue of having to add or remove capacity on a whim. Trains are added from yards to the terminals of the line BEFORE the expected rush hour. I hear a lot about buses being "flexible" but ask any transportation expert in the country and they'll tell you that is a misnomer. Buses are inefficient to the extreme. They get stuck in traffic. They carry a fraction of the number of people that trains do. They stop and go countless times at traffic lights. Mass boarding of buses is a complete nightmare. 12 people take longer to board a bus than 200 people take to board a train. If an elderly or disabled person wants to board a train, no problem. If they want to board a bus, guests get to look forward to a 10 minute delay complete with loud beeping and embarrassing attention being given to their disability. Buses are great for picking kids up in the suburbs and dropping them off at school. That's about it.

 

[thehowiet]

Yes. If not longer. 6 months isn't very long to build anything.

I see what you're saying, especially with the construction being so close to guests and hot lines, as well as the limited hours each day that work can be done.

I would love to read more information about how the Express loop was affected back when the Epcot line was being built. Was the Express line just run in shuttle mode for that period of time?

 

[nolatron]

Yes, it's a beam replacement switch which means it's actually two switches in one. So when the main line switch is on the main line the spur switch is lined up to the new beam. When the switch is lined up to the main line the work tractor can travel out onto the spur. When the switch is on the spur line the monorail can travel onto the spur and if the work tractor is on the spur can travel onto the main line.

I'm not sure I follow you, but this is what I could visualize from what you're saying.

A tractor could move from the Spur beam to the Transfer beam without the need for a switch maneuver, just a traffic hold for clearance.

The Epcot switch (or Express) is then thrown, and tractor moves on to the main Beam. The only point a monorail could pull onto the spur (which it can't, not long enough) was if it was on the Transfer beam.

But then I wonder... would this really work though? The Epcot Switch has this odd angle on the beam at the pivot point:

Since transfer beam is curving into the Main beam the spur switch beam has a arch like bend to it when the switch is closed (main is lined up). Can the smaller tractors ride over that weird of a bend?

 

[Rob562]

Since transfer beam is curving into the Main beam the spur switch beam has a arch like bend to it when the switch is closed (main is lined up). Can the smaller tractors ride over that weird of a bend?

I think the Express/Resort switch by the shop spur creates a similar angle when a train is moving between the two. Nothing it can't handle, it just has to be taken at extremely slow speeds.

-Rob

 

[s8film40]

I'm not sure I follow you, but this is what I could visualize from what you're saying.

A tractor could move from the Spur beam to the Transfer beam without the need for a switch maneuver, just a traffic hold for clearance.

The Epcot switch (or Express) is then thrown, and tractor moves on to the main Beam. The only point a monorail could pull onto the spur (which it can't, not long enough) was if it was on the Transfer beam.

But then I wonder... would this really work though? The Epcot Switch has this odd angle on the beam at the pivot point:

Since transfer beam is curving into the Main beam the spur switch beam has a arch like bend to it when the switch is closed (main is lined up). Can the smaller tractors ride over that weird of a bend?

Yes you are correct, however the line you added is far longer than 62 feet. The pylons there (visible by looking at the shadows) are about 100 feet apart so the new spur would extend about 3/4 of the way to the first shadow.

Here is a good visualization from TMS of how the beam replacement switch operates:
http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/switch.html
Scroll about half way down and there is an animated image of the switch at the opposite end of this particular spur, both of these switches operate the same way.

Also the angle is not anymore sharp than the standard pivot switches used everywhere else in the system so this is not an issue.

 

[nolatron]

Yes you are correct, however the line you added is far longer than 62 feet. The pylons there (visible by looking at the shadows) are about 100 feet apart so the new spur would extend about 3/4 of the way to the first shadow.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that wasn't exactly to scale, but more for simple visuals. :hammer:

 

[tiltawhirl]

wat they should do is charge a couple hundred more for staying at the monorail hotels... eventually that will add up substantually... as for me i still have faith that disney will expand to DHS but i can never see AK getting a line cause it would be expensive and AK is so out of the way... and it would hurt the theming of AK

They do. Per night. And it gets sillier at Club Level in the monorail resorts.
And they absolutely do pitch the convenience of the monorail to justify the rates.

Let me be clear that I am not complaining about the rates, as I always prefer to stay at a monorail resort, but they do price it in now.

 

[mickey2008.1]

Why are they building a 62 ft spur for a 20 ft tractor? From what i am reading, that is all that could go onto the new spur. Do trains break down that much that they need a second tractor? why not just put it in the warehouse or add on there? just wondering.