Monorail Spur

[joel_maxwell]

The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
Gang aft agley
Just ask the guys at BP.

Naahh, I think that is comparing apples and oranges but I see what you are saying.

 

[Did Knee]

As for building the rail on the ground, the bus bar system would make it very dangerous to place near the ground for both people and animals. The only way to keep it safe is to keep it out of reach. Even where it is, there are warnings all over it, just in case somone thinks they can climb up there.

But they do run electric trains on the ground in many cities. New York comes to mind. The subways become either elevated lines or run at ground level at many places outside of Manhattan. If it can be done on that ancient system,why wouldn't it work at WDW?

 

[Tom]

But they do run electric trains on the ground in many cities. New York comes to mind. The subways become either elevated lines or run at ground level at many places outside of Manhattan. If it can be done on that ancient system,why wouldn't it work at WDW?

A) I don't think any of those railways are meant to be walked on by people - they're usually fenced in. Any sort of barrier like that would look awful on WDW's pristine property.

B) The subways and elevated trains never (or RARELY) cross roads in those cities - they either go under or over them. Disney would have to do the same, because it would be impossible to build any sort of mass transit on property that didn't cross a road. So, if you're going to build some of it elevated, why not build it all elevated and eliminate ALL of the risk?

 

[Kamikaze]

But they do run electric trains on the ground in many cities. New York comes to mind. The subways become either elevated lines or run at ground level at many places outside of Manhattan. If it can be done on that ancient system,why wouldn't it work at WDW?

Can't have a subway in a swamp. That leaves everything overhead, with the pylons having to be buried deep into the swamp. That means high costs.


And once again, a monorail/train/subway system is not effective for the WDW guest flow. High peaks of ridership at certain periods of the day isn't easily handled by a system where it is difficult to quickly add and remove capacity. That means buses are more efficient. The most efficient system would be a constant load/unload system. You know, the WEDWay PeopleMover. But I don't even want to think about the cost that would take to have it run everywhere on property - and elevate it for most of the journey.

 

[majortom1981]

Can't have a subway in a swamp. That leaves everything overhead, with the pylons having to be buried deep into the swamp. That means high costs.


And once again, a monorail/train/subway system is not effective for the WDW guest flow. High peaks of ridership at certain periods of the day isn't easily handled by a system where it is difficult to quickly add and remove capacity. That means buses are more efficient. The most efficient system would be a constant load/unload system. You know, the WEDWay PeopleMover. But I don't even want to think about the cost that would take to have it run everywhere on property - and elevate it for most of the journey.

Then hw does the nyc subway system move soo many people?

 

[sillykid]

True the cost per mile is high, but I dont think these numbers are accurate, in regards to what Disney would be doing. Everyone points to Vegas and the cost, they have several stations, go down the middle of roads that had to be widened, and issues upon issues. I could not see them building the monorail shown in pictures above because all these resorts exist. What I could see is them building a monorail somewhere that connects brand new resorts. That is how they could recoup there money.

 

[mp2bill]

I would like to see where this spur line would be in regards to the existing lines. A nice aerial shot with a diagram would suffice.

Same here.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Yes exactly, now if a bus breaks down at the small one lane entrance to the MK bus loop it will shut down all bus traffic at that park. Both transportation methods can be very flexible and both can be completely shut down by one vehicle having a problem in just the right place.

THis is not true.

The roadway at the Magic Kingdom bus loops are set up in such a way that two cast members could control the flow of traffic in and out of the one remaining lane in much the same way a two lane road construction situation is handled.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Just to throw this out there for thought about the busses, they do not last as long as the monorails do. How much does a new bus cost? Plus rising fuel prices and higher accident risks. I know the monorail expansion ideas are a huge cost up front but I would think the long term investment would be better then constantly rotating new busses into the system. To make the monorail more efficient they could build longer trains that could handle more guests.

Buses can and do last a long time. There are still several busses remaining in the DIsney fleet that were manufactured in or around 1992 which I believe is about the same time the new trains came on line on the monorail system. It is likely these buses will still be in the fleet at least 2 years from now or more in one capacity of another.

Fuel prices could be a factor but it would have to get pretty high as newer busses are capapble of getting 5 miles ot the gallon if driven properly compared to less than 3 with older bus technology.

Accidents happen but since Disney is mostly self insured, It would make more sense to concentrate smaller amounts of money on acquiring,training, and retaining more professional drivers.

 

[niteobsrvr]

It would probably be cheaper to run new buses with alternate fuel than what is being discussed. If Ferrari can make a 200+ mph hybrid vehicle, you can run buses on electric or hydrogen or a combination of fuel types.

So far the hybrid technologies ahve not been able to make economic sense due to low fuel costs. Rising prices in the near future would change that though.

 

[niteobsrvr]

The one thing everyone forgets when quoting there price per mile is Disney already own all of the land. This probably the most expensive part of any transit system. They also don't have to deal with all the right of way issues. Also all quotes involve environmental assessments that I'm no sure if Disney has to deal with. Just a few thoughts.

Disney must meet the same environmental impact rules as any other entity wishing to build or expand. A prime example of this is the new and expanded runoff/retention ponds for the Fantasy Land changes.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

So far the hybrid technologies ahve not been able to make economic sense due to low fuel costs. Rising prices in the near future would change that though.

I can't see how Disney, who is always being praised for their innovation, couldn't figure how go go electric with their bus fleet, or at least hybrid.

 

[Monorail Lime]

I can't see how Disney, who is always being praised for their innovation, couldn't figure how go go electric with their bus fleet, or at least hybrid.

Disney leased a hybrid bus for testing a couple years back. I'm not sure if it is still around.

Hybrid buses cost about 50% more than comparable non-hybrid buses and are more expensive to maintain yet provide only a 10%-25% increase in efficiency. Municipal transit agencies can only afford wide-scale hybridization because they have access to Federal green subsidies to offset the higher cost. Disney will undoubtedly get on board with hybrid buses eventually but only after improvements to the technology make them economically justifiable.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Disney leased a hybrid bus for testing a couple years back. I'm not sure if it is still around.

Hybrid buses cost about 50% more than comparable non-hybrid buses and are more expensive to maintain yet provide only a 10%-25% increase in efficiency. Municipal transit agencies can only afford wide-scale hybridization because they have access to Federal green subsidies to offset the higher cost. Disney will undoubtedly get on board with hybrid buses eventually but only after improvements to the technology make them economically justifiable.

Very Interesting.

Yes, unfortunately right now, it costs more to go "green". Hopefully one day that trend will flip-flop one day like the cost/price of technology did back in the 90's to the 00's.

 

[Biff215]

Unfortunately this is true and showcases just how far the WDW management has lost sight of their purpose. Nothing at WDW is supposed to be the most cost effective way. It is supposed to be a place where you go and relax and enjoy really great themed experiences. Putting your visitors through the hassle of the WDW bus system when they have paid thousands of dollars for their trip all so they could leave real world stresses like navigating an outdated transit system behind, is very poor service.

Poor service, really? In theory, the transportation that Disney provides is free to all guests. How many other places can you go to on vacation and not have to pay for transportation? I agree the buses aren't perfect, but they sure beat having to rent a car, park, and take trams IMO.

While I would love to see an expansion of the monorails, I understand that the current system is the most efficient for Disney at this point. As others have said, keep spending that money in the parks!

 

[Master Yoda]

Very Interesting.

Yes, unfortunately right now, it costs more to go "green". Hopefully one day that trend will flip-flop one day like the cost/price of technology did back in the 90's to the 00's.

And that is the big problem right now. Profit margins are incredibly slim in every business. If "going green" would save even a dime companies would be jumping on board left and right. As it sits now "going green" is looked at almost like an advertising expense.

 

[joel_maxwell]

And that is the big problem right now. Profit margins are incredibly slim in every business. If "going green" would save even a dime companies would be jumping on board left and right. As it sits now "going green" is looked at almost like an advertising expense.

Pretty much. In some industries, it actually pays to be more efficient. I have a friend who sells state of the art filtration systems to corporations. Pricey on the front end, but after a year it pays for itself and saves the industries a lot of money in chemical breakdown. this mayb not be "green", but just smart.

I would say the only other "green" things that pay for themselves, and I dont even know if this classifies as green or just smart, is putting things like double pane windows, new insulation etc in your home.

Am i going to go buy a vehicle that is 3 times the price of what I have now so I can be all electric... I dont think so.

 

[ERich2010]

so heres what i think:

sure it may not make sense now. fuel costs are low, the buses work, monorails are expensive.

but wouldnt it still be smart investment to build more monorails? sure, it would be more expensive now, but it would pay itself off in the future. im sure that the existing monorails have paid themselves off a few times over by now

 

[Master Yoda]

Pretty much. In some industries, it actually pays to be more efficient. I have a friend who sells state of the art filtration systems to corporations. Pricey on the front end, but after a year it pays for itself and saves the industries a lot of money in chemical breakdown. this mayb not be "green", but just smart.

I would say the only other "green" things that pay for themselves, and I dont even know if this classifies as green or just smart, is putting things like double pane windows, new insulation etc in your home.

Am i going to go buy a vehicle that is 3 times the price of what I have now so I can be all electric... I dont think so.

Exactly. I would love to have a Volt. For the distances that I drive on a day to day basis I would almost never have to buy gas for it but at 40k it would never even out. I could buy a Chevy Aveo and be 26k in the black on day one. 26k will buy more than a decades worth of gas.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Exactly. I would love to have a Volt. For the distances that I drive on a day to day basis I would almost never have to buy gas for it but at 40k it would never even out. I could buy a Chevy Aveo and be 26k in the black on day one. 26k will buy more than a decades worth of gas.

My 4-runner is paid for. That is "green" to me. :drevil: