Monorail Spur

[niteobsrvr]

Why are they building a 62 ft spur for a 20 ft tractor? From what i am reading, that is all that could go onto the new spur. Do trains break down that much that they need a second tractor? why not just put it in the warehouse or add on there? just wondering.

There are already at least two tractors which are kept in the "warehouse". Yes, especially during lightning season, the trains go down more than anyone would like to see happening. The 62 foot length probably has a lot to do with clearances between the main track I would imagine.

 

[Tom]

Why are they building a 62 ft spur for a 20 ft tractor? From what i am reading, that is all that could go onto the new spur. Do trains break down that much that they need a second tractor? why not just put it in the warehouse or add on there? just wondering.

What niteobsrvr said is right. Plus part of the reason for the second tractor location more than likely comes from the incident last July, and safety upgrades they've made since then.

By having a tractor stationed near the TTC, they can access all the track around the TTC and the entire Epcot loop without taking the Resort or Express lines out of service - which is what they have to do now in order to get a tractor from the garage to the TTC or beyond.

If there is a switch thrown on a loop, all trains on that loop must stop and hold until the track is made whole again (or so I understand).

 

[JML42691]

Why are they building a 62 ft spur for a 20 ft tractor? From what i am reading, that is all that could go onto the new spur. Do trains break down that much that they need a second tractor? why not just put it in the warehouse or add on there? just wondering.

I also recall reading somewhere in this thread that they do tests, maintenance runs, and inspections on the beams fairly regularly with the tractors. With the current setup with park hours there are some nights where the earliest they could get a tractor on the Epcot line for inspections is 4am (MK being open till 3am and monorails operating on the Resort and Express lines for an extra hour). By having a tractor based on or near the Epcot line they can begin work much earlier.

Also consider the situation if a train became disabled in the teardrop loop in Epcot during peak hours. They would have to shuffle trains on the Express line to clear track for the tractor, essentially shutting down the Express line for how ever long it takes to get the tractor from the barn to the TTC spur, then also have trains shuffled out of the way on the Epcot line so the tractor can reach the disabled train and tow it back to the TTC spur, then have the the Express line remain clear until they can get the disabled train towed onto the spur to the barn. I have no figures to base time off of, but I'm guessing that this would essentially leave all lines (maybe excluding the Resort line) offline for the better part of an hour, if not more.

If they locate a tractor on the Epcot line and build a work platform on the existing spur between the Epcot and Express lines this would only leave the Epcot line offline and only for however long it takes to tow the train to the first spur. It may not happen often, but it's the one time that it does happen that it helps prevent a near full shutdown (which during peak times could be a nightmare).

 

[s8film40]

Why are they building a 62 ft spur for a 20 ft tractor? From what i am reading, that is all that could go onto the new spur. Do trains break down that much that they need a second tractor? why not just put it in the warehouse or add on there? just wondering.

For clearances as well as possibly accommodating the trailer that it can pull.

 

[Rob562]

I also recall reading somewhere in this thread that they do tests, maintenance runs, and inspections on the beams fairly regularly with the tractors. With the current setup with park hours there are some nights where the earliest they could get a tractor on the Epcot line for inspections is 4am (MK being open till 3am and monorails operating on the Resort and Express lines for an extra hour). By having a tractor based on or near the Epcot line they can begin work much earlier.

Just a minor correction... The Express monorail is shut down as soon as the rush of exiting Guests subsides after official park closing time. That rush lasts about an hour. After that, Express is taken out of service for Guests and they only run the Resort trains. If you need to go to the TTC during EMH, you're directed to the Resort monorail.

So once Express is cleared of Guests, they can do whatever they want with the shop spur, Express and Epcot beams. The Resort beam is pretty well sealed off from any activity on the other two beams. (I think the only exception might be a hold on the Resort trains while the switch to the Shop spur is in motion, just in case there's an adverse movement of that switch. But once it's locked in position, they're free to move on Resort again.)

-Rob

 

[JML42691]

Just a minor correction... The Express monorail is shut down as soon as the rush of exiting Guests subsides after official park closing time. That rush lasts about an hour. After that, Express is taken out of service for Guests and they only run the Resort trains. If you need to go to the TTC during EMH, you're directed to the Resort monorail.

So once Express is cleared of Guests, they can do whatever they want with the shop spur, Express and Epcot beams. The Resort beam is pretty well sealed off from any activity on the other two beams. (I think the only exception might be a hold on the Resort trains while the switch to the Shop spur is in motion, just in case there's an adverse movement of that switch. But once it's locked in position, they're free to move on Resort again.)

-Rob

Thanks for the correction :wave:

 

[Phonedave]

That tidbit about the scuttled massive expansion plans grabbed me, too. I was also wondering where this new spur line would be placed. Very interesting stuff.

Oh! BTW, last week I was watching one of Martin's videos (think it was the tribute to transportation) and there were some pics of the original construction pics of the resort & express lines. One of the captions stated that the beams were constructed of a composite honeycomb core with a concrete encasement to keep the weight of each beam under a certain weight (50,000 lbs. or tons or something). I've never heard that! I immediately called my father-in-law to ask how using a composite core would affect the cost per beam. His response was: without knowing the cost of whatever the composite was it's hard to tell. It likely eliminates the need for rebar but how drastically it can change the cost per beam is impossible to judge without knowing what the composite was and how the cores were produced. Would it be enough difference to offset the cost of rebar & labor to configure it? Impossible to tell. FiL also found the fact that the beam cores are composite quite interesting. I just found that info about the beams fascinating. Not trying to stir up the great "monorail expansion" debate. Do I think they'll expand the monorail out as so many folks wish they would? I still say no. The cost is so high it'd be prohibitive. Just random interesting info.... :wave:

Concrete is not expensive - but it is heavy. Heavy means higher shipping costs, larger foundations (which is FL is a big deal) and more difficulty in setting the beams.

Concrete strenght is almost all in compression, it has basicly no tensile strenght. In a uniformly loaded beam the bottom edge is in tension and the top is in compression. (well it depends on how the ends are fixed, but now we get technical)

You still need the steel to provide tensile strenght in the beam. What you can do is eleminate a lot of the concrete in the areas that are designed to be under a tensile load and replace the concrete with something as simple as styrofoam. Thereby saving the weight.

I don't know if these beams are prestressed or not, but that's another options. But there is a lot of dymanic loading on a monorail beam, as opposed to the static loads experienced by say a building floor.

Ah, all those classes in reinforced concrete design now tie into WDW - who would have thunk it.

-dave

 

[Tom]

Concrete is not expensive - but it is heavy. Heavy means higher shipping costs, larger foundations (which is FL is a big deal) and more difficulty in setting the beams.

Concrete strenght is almost all in compression, it has basicly no tensile strenght. In a uniformly loaded beam the bottom edge is in tension and the top is in compression. (well it depends on how the ends are fixed, but now we get technical)

You still need the steel to provide tensile strenght in the beam. What you can do is eleminate a lot of the concrete in the areas that are designed to be under a tensile load and replace the concrete with something as simple as styrofoam. Thereby saving the weight.

I don't know if these beams are prestressed or not, but that's another options. But there is a lot of dymanic loading on a monorail beam, as opposed to the static loads experienced by say a building floor.

Ah, all those classes in reinforced concrete design now tie into WDW - who would have thunk it.

-dave

Excellent points. I'm guessing you don't sell phones for a living, eh?

BTW, the beams are pre-tensioned with cables.

 

[Phonedave]

Excellent points. I'm guessing you don't sell phones for a living, eh?

BTW, the beams are pre-tensioned with cables.

Oh now you did it. time for my long strange trip (condensed verison)

I work in telecomm for a major ILEC. I carry the title of Senior Engineer - however I am on National Staff, so my role is more budgets, project management, and systems support than it is 'real' telecomm engineering.

However, despite the fact I work in telecomm, I have a Masters in Civil Engineering. At one time I did used to work in the Construction Engineering field, however my involvement in that field has dwindled over the years to almost nothing (Though I still receive Underground Construction magazine - can't let that part of me die )


-dave

 

[Tom]

Oh now you did it. time for my long strange trip (condensed verison)

I work in telecomm for a major ILEC. I carry the title of Senior Engineer - however I am on National Staff, so my role is more budgets, project management, and systems support than it is 'real' telecomm engineering.

However, despite the fact I work in telecomm, I have a Masters in Civil Engineering. At one time I did used to work in the Construction Engineering field, however my involvement in that field has dwindled over the years to almost nothing (Though I still receive Underground Construction magazine - can't let that part of me die )


-dave

Very nice!

I started in Civil at Purdue, but bailed on it and switched to Construction Management. Not the best career to have these days, but I still love it.

 

[Master Yoda]

Very nice!

I started in Civil at Purdue, but bailed on it and switched to Construction Management. Not the best career to have these days, but I still love it.

Ain't that the truth. I never thought I would miss working 80 hour weeks like I do now.

 

[Tom]

Ain't that the truth. I never thought I would miss working 80 hour weeks like I do now.

I've never had so much time during the work day to chat here on the board. *sigh*

 

[Phonedave]

Very nice!

I started in Civil at Purdue, but bailed on it and switched to Construction Management. Not the best career to have these days, but I still love it.

Technicaly that is what my Masters is in

Civil Engineering - Construction Engineering Management


I loved it. I still love it. I like scheduling, coordinating different forces, arranging testing, etc. (my sub concentration is in Geotechnical Enginnering). I used to do it for the phone company. At one time I had all subsurface structures for the State of New Jersey.

However as you said, that whole field has dried up. Luckly I have been able to roll with it and find new areas to work in. I still miss walking into the middle of nowhere with a track hoe to perfrom perc tests though.

-dave

 

[MiklCraw4d]

Interesting that the beamway in the foreground carries what appears to be a PeopleMover, and winds it's way down Hotel Plaza Blvd. and back.

The monorail beam is just above center.

Apparently a mixed system was considered at one time.

You are correct. There was to be an internal PeopleMover loop to shuttle guests within the village, and the various resort communities planned to run from LBV up Bonnet Creek towards the current location of "Golden Oaks".

The Monorail would connect the village to the main monorail line at EPCOT. There would be a transportation hub and switching station located roughly where West Side/PI is now.

 

[huntzilla]

You are correct. There was to be an internal PeopleMover loop to shuttle guests within the village, and the various resort communities planned to run from LBV up Bonnet Creek towards the current location of "Golden Oaks".

The Monorail would connect the village to the main monorail line at EPCOT. There would be a transportation hub and switching station located roughly where West Side/PI is now.

Is this visible on google maps/earth?

 

[Tom]

Is this visible on google maps/earth?

Probably not....since it never existed.

 

[huntzilla]

Probably not....since it never existed.

haha misread post. Maybe we should create a google earth that features all the conceptualized plans for WDW. Look at the MK with Fire Mountain, Bald Mountain, and WRE. On the 7 Seas Lagoon, we could have the persian and venetian too.

 

[Tom]

haha misread post. Maybe we should create a google earth that features all the conceptualized plans for WDW. Look at the MK with Fire Mountain, Bald Mountain, and WRE. On the 7 Seas Lagoon, we could have the persian and venetian too.

Talk about "blue sky"! Oh the things that would pop up on there. I can't even imagine

 

[mickey2008.1]

thanks for all the info. So if it is for another tractor, they would have to build some kind of warehouse for it to protect it. How would they hide it so riders wouldnt see it as what it is? visitors dont see the main warehouse now. just curious.

 

[BalooChicago]

Excellent points. I'm guessing you don't sell phones for a living, eh?

BTW, the beams are pre-tensioned with cables.

Pre or post? I thought post.

Man, you Purdue folks are everywhere. (I work with a ton of Purdue engineers)

One of my structural engineering professors consulted on an accident at a parking garage which had been under construction.

The contractor torched off the end of one of the post-tensioning cables. The release of the tension in the cable shot it out of the garage and through the facade of an adjacent building. Fortunately no one was hurt.