Monorail Spur

[Master Yoda]

My 4-runner is paid for. That is "green" to me. :drevil:

Actually when you run the big picture numbers it is more green to keep and maintain an existing not so fuel efficient car then it is to build a new more fuel efficient one. Sure when your ride becomes a busted up old jalopy it would be better to buy a more efficient one but trading in a perfectly good car for a slightly more efficient one does not help our environment in the slightest.

 

[Kamikaze]

I agree that that much money would be better spent on a ride or improvements but i still wounder if there are new materials or techniques that can lower the cost per mile

Its in a freaking swamp.

I can't see how Disney, who is always being praised for their innovation, couldn't figure how go go electric with their bus fleet, or at least hybrid.

The battery weight on a bus is greater than any gains that would be made by adding a hybrid engine. In other words, the fuel economy actually would go down.

Then hw does the nyc subway system move soo many people?

Because they have tons of trains. And many different routes.

Oh, and don't forget, you often have to switch trains multiple times to get from one place to another. Can't do that at WDW. If you're going hotel to park, can't have transfers.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Actually when you run the big picture numbers it is more green to keep and maintain an existing not so fuel efficient car then it is to build a new more fuel efficient one. Sure when your ride becomes a busted up old jalopy it would be better to buy a more efficient one but trading in a perfectly good car for a slightly more efficient one does not help our environment in the slightest.

True. I put 2K into my 10 year old 4-runner this past spring (152K miles on it). It shall run for another 6 possibly or more.... assuming they fix the front end correctly where that kid almost totaled my car last month.

The battery weight on a bus is greater than any gains that would be made by adding a hybrid engine. In other words, the fuel economy actually would go down.

I think there are far more check marks in the column of how much better the current system works than in the column of "I wish" and "what if".

 

[Kamikaze]

I think there are far more check marks in the column of how much better the current system works than in the column of "I wish" and "what if".

Thats it exactly. The current system is very good for what it does. Is a bus not as magical as a monorail? Of course. But spending billions on a resort-wide monorail system and it being less efficient at doing the job is hardly a good move.

Even just the cost for the stations is prohibitive. Just think about the bigger resorts. Like Caribbean Beach. Are they going to have 4 monorail stops at the one resort? I doubt that. So that means quite a hike up to the front of the resort to catch the monorail. Then you have to group the resorts to lines. And you have to make sure the trip time (including the stops at the resorts) isn't insanely long. And at 30-35 mph, thats hard to do if you're talking about something like Coronado Springs to MK with other stops on the way.

 

[Tom]

Thats it exactly. The current system is very good for what it does. Is a bus not as magical as a monorail? Of course. But spending billions on a resort-wide monorail system and it being less efficient at doing the job is hardly a good move.

You're right - a bus isn't nearly as magical as a monorail. We all would love to have monorails all over property, but it just isn't going to happen.

Monorails were quite novel when they were building the MK, and provided another exciting way to deliver guests to the MK. Walt loved transportation systems, and loved variety.

However, while they might still be novel, the current system isn't one that can really be adapted to have pull-off stations and bypassing trains. The switches on our current type of system are giant, slow and cumbersome. You can't just throw a switch and let a train pull off onto a spur. It's a process.

Besides, with the addition of the new soundtracks and narration in the buses, I think they've done a decent job of making them a bit more magical than your typical public transportation.

Now, if they'd actually use their GPS/Computer Controlled dispatch system, the system would actually work and more guests would be satisfied with the bus system. It has such potential, but I would consider it less than adequate at this point in time.

 

[trr1]

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[niteobsrvr]

You're right - a bus isn't nearly as magical as a monorail. We all would love to have monorails all over property, but it just isn't going to happen.

I have to say that this thread had the potential to be one of those long winded ones about monorails at any cost etc, etc. but instead it went off in a very intelligent discussion of the pro's and con's. I am not sure what changed from previous such threads. Maybe people are acutely more aware of economics, energy saving issues, mass transit technologies.

There is no doubt that there are greener solutions to the problem of transporting people at Disney but you have to temper your desire for that kind of efficiency with actual logistical and economic efficiency. Maybe one day in this country, it will become more economical to build rail based systems instead of expanding highways to accommodate more automobiles and buses. But until that time arrives, we need to continue improving rail technologies to combat some of the aforementioned problems and issues of spikes in demand, maintenance issues, and so forth.

 

[nolatron]

I agree the buses aren't perfect, but they sure beat having to rent a car, park, and take trams IMO.

Personally, I'll take the rental car over having to deal with waiting in line for a crowded, hot, noisy bus.

 

[87 GN]

To get back to the original topic, does anyone want to take a stab in the dark at figuring out where they will build the spur?

Some things I noticed after looking at the loops in Google earth.

I assume they will keep a tow tractor at the shops to still service the resort loop because it looks like that is the only place you can currently switch between the resort and express beams. I cannot see them running a tow tractor all the way back around the loop from the TCC to get onto the other beam near the MK
To take full advantage of having the tow tractor at the TCC they could add switching between express and resort beams at the TCC but I doubt that will happen.

To add the new spur to park a train and tow tractor I would assume they would build some sort of platform to be able to lightly service a train that only needs minor repairs. So where do you put that? In guest view or out of sight? Also is it a dead end spur they would build or one that ties in at both ends like the current Epcot spur?

Also looking at Google earth it appears that all the current switch legs are straight so I can't see them adding a switch to the current spur because the entire beam is curved. So with that in mind to add switch’s for a new spur they would be off the main line which will cause a lengthy shut down of the Epcot and MK express loop to install them or cause a shuttle mode situation until the switch’s are installed.


Thoughts?

 

[niteobsrvr]

To get back to the original topic, does anyone want to take a stab in the dark at figuring out where they will build the spur?

Some things I noticed after looking at the loops in Google earth.

I assume they will keep a tow tractor at the shops to still service the resort loop because it looks like that is the only place you can currently switch between the resort and express beams. I cannot see them running a tow tractor all the way back around the loop from the TCC to get onto the other beam near the MK
To take full advantage of having the tow tractor at the TCC they could add switching between express and resort beams at the TCC but I doubt that will happen.

To add the new spur to park a train and tow tractor I would assume they would build some sort of platform to be able to lightly service a train that only needs minor repairs. So where do you put that? In guest view or out of sight? Also is it a dead end spur they would build or one that ties in at both ends like the current Epcot spur?

Also looking at Google earth it appears that all the current switch legs are straight so I can't see them adding a switch to the current spur because the entire beam is curved. So with that in mind to add switch’s for a new spur they would be off the main line which will cause a lengthy shut down of the Epcot and MK express loop to install them or cause a shuttle mode situation until the switch’s are installed.

Thoughts?


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I think it would be over here out of the way.

 

[trr1]

I have to say that this thread had the potential to be one of those long winded ones about monorails at any cost etc, etc. but instead it went off in a very intelligent discussion of the pro's and con's. I am not sure what changed from previous such threads. Maybe people are acutely more aware of economics, energy saving issues, mass transit technologies.

There is no doubt that there are greener solutions to the problem of transporting people at Disney but you have to temper your desire for that kind of efficiency with actual logistical and economic efficiency. Maybe one day in this country, it will become more economical to build rail based systems instead of expanding highways to accommodate more automobiles and buses. But until that time arrives, we need to continue improving rail technologies to combat some of the aforementioned problems and issues of spikes in demand, maintenance issues, and so forth.

 

[Biff215]

Personally, I'll take the rental car over having to deal with waiting in line for a crowded, hot, noisy bus.

To be honest, I also typically rent a car to avoid the buses and just get places faster in general. I was just trying to point out that Disney is providing a service to guests, even though it might not be as "magical" as the monorail.

 

[s8film40]

I think it would be over here out of the way.

This was my guess as well and from what the sentinel article said it pretty much confirms this to be the spot.

 

[s8film40]

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This looks remarkably similar to a Disney design from back in the 70's

 

[blackthidot]

Having a broken Monorail just chilling in plain sight next to the TTC and being worked on really does not seem like something Disney would want us seeing. Most of us here would probably think it would be cool to see though.

 

[s8film40]

Having a broken Monorail just chilling in plain sight next to the TTC and being worked on really does not seem like something Disney would want us seeing. Most of us here would probably think it would be cool to see though.

The Sentinel article says it will be 62 feet long, so trains won't fit on it. This is just for a tow tractor.

 

[thehowiet]

The Sentinel article says it will be 62 feet long, so trains won't fit on it. This is just for a tow tractor.

I guess The Monorail Society's information is a little off then.

From The Monorail Society:

Additionally, the spur line will have enough room for a train. As one experienced former WDW monorail pilot tells us, "This will allow them to park 'the fourth' express train during the slow period of the day rather than having to switch it back to shop. That time savings ought to be huge. The space will also be useful for pulling off a train that needs minor maintenance so they can work on it offline, rather than hold up the system while they look it over at Base or Concourse."

 

[jrlang1]

This was my guess as well and from what the sentinel article said it pretty much confirms this to be the spot.

Which sentinel article? Do you have a link

 

[Tom]

Having a broken Monorail just chilling in plain sight next to the TTC and being worked on really does not seem like something Disney would want us seeing. Most of us here would probably think it would be cool to see though.

I would venture to say that not only will the new "spur" have a platform with it (since pilots would have to climb up to get in and out of the cab), but perhaps even a shelter of some kind.

If they're going to do maintenance on broken-down trains during the day, they'll obviously need shelter. Also, I wouldn't think they'd want to park an idle train in the sun or elements during the day, or even if they used the spur as another overnight parking spot.

 

[s8film40]

Which sentinel article? Do you have a link

http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2010/07/disney-world-plans-small-monorail-expansion/

I think the TMS article was making some assumption on how a small addition like this could be useful, the Sentinel article cites an official WDW source so I think it is more in line with what will actually be built. This was what confused me from the very beginning the TMS version talked about building a switch which would not be necessary if using the offset position of the already existing switch. So this makes much more sense, they will only have to build two pylons and one 62 foot beam and they don't need to support the full weight of a monorail as well as no electrical components. All in all an easy upgrade with a big benefit.