Monorail Spur

[majortom1981]

hmm

Why not build a tram or train then atleast? Walt disney liked trains right? Would train track be cheaper to build?

 

[joel_maxwell]

The price of concrete and steel is not directly tied into inflation and their prices have risen at considerably higher rates since 1982.

This always makes me wish I was in the concrete and/or steel business. It is needed on any and every building project.

 

[Master Yoda]

Why not build a tram or train then atleast? Walt disney liked trains right? Would train track be cheaper to build?

That would all depend. If you build an elevated track then the savings are pretty minimal. If you go with a less expensive ground laid track you have to build over passes where it crosses with normal traffic which will greatly add to the cost. Trains also suffer from the same problem monorails do... inflexibility. If one train goes down it will shut down that entire line.

While the buses are as un-magical as it gets they are currently the most cost effective and flexible way to move the masses around WDW.

 

[s8film40]

If one train goes down it will shut down that entire line.

While this mat be somewhat true of the current WDW monorail system. A modern monorail system can be designed to easily route traffic around a disabled train. Monorails if done right can be extremely flexible.

While the buses are as un-magical as it gets they are currently the most cost effective and flexible way to move the masses around WDW.

Unfortunately this is true and showcases just how far the WDW management has lost sight of their purpose. Nothing at WDW is supposed to be the most cost effective way. It is supposed to be a place where you go and relax and enjoy really great themed experiences. Putting your visitors through the hassle of the WDW bus system when they have paid thousands of dollars for their trip all so they could leave real world stresses like navigating an outdated transit system behind, is very poor service.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

Why not just charge a small fee to use the monorail instead of the bus system?? This would at least generate some income to support them.

 

[SOLISIMO]

That would all depend. If you build an elevated track then the savings are pretty minimal. If you go with a less expensive ground laid track you have to build over passes where it crosses with normal traffic which will greatly add to the cost. Trains also suffer from the same problem monorails do... inflexibility. If one train goes down it will shut down that entire line.

While the buses are as un-magical as it gets they are currently the most cost effective and flexible way to move the masses around WDW.

That would also be catastrophic to the traffic. Can you imagine how many times the train would run in a day and the backups at the railroad crossings.

 

[everest-dude]

Why not just charge a small fee to use the monorail instead of the bus system?? This would at least generate some income to support them.

wat they should do is charge a couple hundred more for staying at the monorail hotels... eventually that will add up substantually... as for me i still have faith that disney will expand to DHS but i can never see AK getting a line cause it would be expensive and AK is so out of the way... and it would hurt the theming of AK

 

[CDavid]

Trains also suffer from the same problem monorails do... inflexibility. If one train goes down it will shut down that entire line.

No, a disabled train does not "shut down that entire line"; You merely run around the disabled train until you can get in moving again (or towed). Of course, this requires strategically placed switches which the current WDW monorail loops mostly lack, but which should be a natural result of an expanded monorail network anyway. Even now, however, one disabled monorail need not shut down the entire beam. If one monorail becomes disabled on the Epcot beam, for instance, you can run in 'shuttle' mode (with some delay) using the other three monorails on the line (yes, all 3 - not just one).

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why not just charge a small fee to use the monorail instead of the bus system?? This would at least generate some income to support them.

Due to the same laws that made Western River Railroad a one station loop around Adventureland and Frontierland, the Disney Resort Line does charge a fare for riding.

http://www.tokyodisneyresort.co.jp/tdr/english/others/drl.html

 

[CaptainWinter]

Why not just charge a small fee to use the monorail instead of the bus system?

One of the nice things about WDW is they are reasonably good about not nickel-and-diming you for your experiences. (I wish they were even better in this regard than they are.) But you're already paying so much to be there. It hurts the morale of your customers when you keep asking for just a wee bit more.

For example: here in Chicago, at the local Six Flags they have lockers at every roller coaster queue. You have to pay a dollar to use them. One lousy dollar. So you need a pocket full of singles if you want to stash your camera etc. at all these rides. It's a real pain and feels stingy. Just charge us all $3 more at the gate and let us relax already.

 

[s8film40]

No, a disabled train does not "shut down that entire line"; You merely run around the disabled train until you can get in moving again (or towed). Of course, this requires strategically placed switches which the current WDW monorail loops mostly lack, but which should be a natural result of an expanded monorail network anyway. Even now, however, one disabled monorail need not shut down the entire beam. If one monorail becomes disabled on the Epcot beam, for instance, you can run in 'shuttle' mode (with some delay) using the other three monorails on the line (yes, all 3 - not just one).

Yes exactly, now if a bus breaks down at the small one lane entrance to the MK bus loop it will shut down all bus traffic at that park. Both transportation methods can be very flexible and both can be completely shut down by one vehicle having a problem in just the right place.

This is ultimately the reason for adding this additional spur as it will add a huge amount of flexibility to the system as well as providing a second place for a tow tractor to come from, eliminating the possibility of a disabled train from locking out a tow tractor from the system.

 

[s8film40]

One of the nice things about WDW is they are reasonably good about not nickel-and-diming you for your experiences. (I wish they were even better in this regard than they are.) But you're already paying so much to be there. It hurts the morale of your customers when you keep asking for just a wee bit more.

Yeah, why nickel and dime when you can just charge them for everything up front whether they're going to use it or not.

 

[87 GN]

Just to throw this out there for thought about the busses, they do not last as long as the monorails do. How much does a new bus cost? Plus rising fuel prices and higher accident risks. I know the monorail expansion ideas are a huge cost up front but I would think the long term investment would be better then constantly rotating new busses into the system. To make the monorail more efficient they could build longer trains that could handle more guests.

 

[joel_maxwell]

That would all depend. If you build an elevated track then the savings are pretty minimal. If you go with a less expensive ground laid track you have to build over passes where it crosses with normal traffic which will greatly add to the cost. Trains also suffer from the same problem monorails do... inflexibility. If one train goes down it will shut down that entire line.

While the buses are as un-magical as it gets they are currently the most cost effective and flexible way to move the masses around WDW.

Do you feel like we should have a boilerplate to copy/paste from with these conversations? Especially in the RoI department. If it was as easy and brilliant as these conversations make it out to be, wouldnt it most likely have been done?

I guess it cant hurt to dream about future transportation.

Why not just charge a small fee to use the monorail instead of the bus system?? This would at least generate some income to support them.

That would kill the balance between monorail/boat/bus.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Just to throw this out there for thought about the busses, they do not last as long as the monorails do. How much does a new bus cost? Plus rising fuel prices and higher accident risks. I know the monorail expansion ideas are a huge cost up front but I would think the long term investment would be better then constantly rotating new busses into the system. To make the monorail more efficient they could build longer trains that could handle more guests.

I dont have time to hit all these high points, but longer trains equal longer stations. Longer stations equal construction to make them longer. If you didnt make them longer and loaded half the train then moved forward to load the second half, it isnt time efficient.

Current system = the best system.

 

[Master Yoda]

That would also be catastrophic to the traffic. Can you imagine how many times the train would run in a day and the backups at the railroad crossings.

This is why overpasses would be a necessity.

No, a disabled train does not "shut down that entire line"; You merely run around the disabled train until you can get in moving again (or towed). Of course, this requires strategically placed switches which the current WDW monorail loops mostly lack, but which should be a natural result of an expanded monorail network anyway. Even now, however, one disabled monorail need not shut down the entire beam. If one monorail becomes disabled on the Epcot beam, for instance, you can run in 'shuttle' mode (with some delay) using the other three monorails on the line (yes, all 3 - not just one).

With WDW's current beam layout and safety procedures a disabled monorail does bring the system to a near halt. Yes, there are options with the current system (shuttle mode) but none of them are all that great. Sure a new system can be designed to maximize flexibility but it still come down to the same question.....How is Disney going to make or save money by expanding the monorail? If you can answer that I am sure that they will start building beams tomorrow.

 

[Optimus Mouse]

current system = the most easily demonstrable ROI

ftfy

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Fascinating! A discussion about monorail beam construction. :snore:
You guys need to get a life.

Considering my hubby & all his family do work in a related line of business which pays our bills, this sort of stuff IS our life. And it's interesting. :animwink:

I do and the professional part of that life centers around structural engineering. It may not be as exciting as park narration changes but I like it.

I like it, too. It gives more meaning to all the stuff I've learned over the years from paying attention to the husband & in meetings & such. I used to drive my boss nuts because I was supposed to be taking minutes in his meetings which I did a thorough job of. But after a lot of our meetings I'd have a whole list of questions I jotted down in the margins of my tablet. He was always tickled over my questions. :lol:

I second what Yoda said. I'm a commercial/industrial Construction Manager by day, and this sort of stuff fascinates me!

If it were just a "monorail expansion" thread, I'd probably ignore it. But since we're talking about construction/fabrication, I can't get enough

Me, too! I find the processes used to actually build the stuff so fascinating. Maybe we should add another topic to our 'Wish list for Martin' thread: detailed construction & fabrication info for....

Not to further open this can of worms, but I found this diagram from the Progress City Blog for an expansion proposal (the white line, of course):

This would add DHS, the Boardwalk, the Yacht and Beach Club, and the Swan and Dolphin to the existing system... in other words, 3 of the 4 theme parks and almost all of the deluxe hotels would be on the monorail. And when you compare this to the distance between Epcot and the Magic Kingdom, it really isn't that much track.

I think Disney could at least pull this off nowadays, right?

I see where that white line ties in to the Epcot loop and it doesn't look like a good place for a station. I think that's another problem wtih expanding from point A to point B then from point B to point C. Passengers would have to switch multiple trains which would deter people who wanted to go just from point A to point C when they could possibly accomplish it quicker with another form of transportation. :shrug:

Why not build a tram or train then atleast? Walt disney liked trains right? Would train track be cheaper to build?

I discussed briefly with the FiL the possibility of maybe a system similar to major cities transport/trains like the Metro in D.C. or Marta in Atlanta. I have no idea what the cost of these things are but perhaps there would be a savings if the majority of your rail was NOT elevated like the monorail. I don't think you could do tunnels under existing roadways (high water table) or how much of an obstacle it would be to overpass existing roadways. I also think it wouldn't be as desirable or "nice" as the monorail. He seemed to think it would be cheaper but neither of us have any sort of knowledge as what the budgets for these things are. :shrug:

This always makes me wish I was in the concrete and/or steel business. It is needed on any and every building project.

I wish you could've been out on the LNG pipeline terminal project with me a couple years ago. I was totally enthralled by the construction of the big storage tanks. Biiiiig iron/steel/metal/? encased tanks (kinda like crude storage tanks but bigger). They wove intricate cages of rebar all around them, built forms, then used cranes and huge pumps to fill in the concrete around. It was so neat. Sometimes the constant line of concrete trucks rolling and out was a pain but it was fun to watch. Hubby drove me past that site a couple days ago. So neat to see the terminal almost complete! :sohappy:

wat they should do is charge a couple hundred more for staying at the monorail hotels... eventually that will add up substantually... as for me i still have faith that disney will expand to DHS but i can never see AK getting a line cause it would be expensive and AK is so out of the way... and it would hurt the theming of AK

They already do! The hotels on the monorail line are more expensive than the non-monorail resorts. It's a wonderful perk, tho.

 

[joel_maxwell]

ftfy

Be careful changing people quotes. I understand what you are doing here... but in the future, you might want to quote the person and then put the ftfy in the body.

Some people get really upset with this. :wave:

 

[jrlang1]

This is only a very far out guess but they could be testing new building techiques as a way to test the waters for a possible expanssion