Monorail Red Updated

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
It's called sarcasm - thought the eye-roll would have been enough for you to understand.

Maybe you can explain what your actual point was then - that the skyliners haven't been in operation as long as the monorails?

I think we all know that.

You specifically referred to the "track record" which isn't about the hypotehtical. It's not about what would or could happen - it's about what has happened. Still waiting for you to explain exactly how this track record is better so far.

And yes, I prefer the monorails, too.
In my mind, the brand new Skyliner has already had more issues than I can remember the monorail had

Maybe it’s that it’s new, maybe because of social media, maybe it’s because I prefer the monorail too?

And yes I miss riding in the front of the too. I have a double rarity; I rode in the front of the monorail, on the EPCOT loop AND got to see the lights of winter from the front car of the monorail.

One more thing. I was once evacuated from the monorail. It was not near a platform, they drove over one of those trucks with the staircases over to us and we just walked down the stairs.

As we have seen it’s not as easy to evacuate a Skyliner..
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
It was clarified in subsequent posts there were indeed several factors, none of which having to do with any mechanical failure which was the point I was trying to make. Could the system have used some sort of additional safeguards, obviously yes.
Oh absolutely. But the poor - often maligned - supervisor was local and on call, not required to be on site, and not to blame. It was a tragic chain of events where any single link in the chain breaking would have prevented the incident.
 

"El Magnifico"

Proud Member of "The Warning" Fan Club
Premium Member
Oh absolutely. But the poor - often maligned - supervisor was local and on call, not required to be on site, and not to blame. It was a tragic chain of events where any single link in the chain breaking would have prevented the incident.

If I remember correctly the final report cited safety protocols as a contributing factor. Nothing to do with the system or for that matter the individual. Was the process.
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
Back on topic, I saw monorail red yesterday and it looked really good. I know some don't but I'm really enjoying the color trapezoids in the middle of each monorail car.

Monorail orange is now going through the rehab. It was last painted in June of 2017. I remember posting about it because you could literally see your reflection in the shiny new paint job. This is somewhat encouraging that they are repainting a train that was repainted 4 years ago. I was looking at monorail Orange just the other week and was thinking to myself that it doesn't look brand-new anymore but it still looks good. It's nice to see that it's getting refreshed before it looked bad again. This is how it should be.

Also as someone once told me from inside the company yes the trains were planned for a 20-year life cycle but that's more from an accounting standpoint. Trains all over the world last much longer than 20 years.

Trying to compare apples to apples here, If you look at the fleet at the Vancouver SkyTrain they have some of the fleet younger but a good portion of the fleet is much older than 20 years.

Also just below these thirty-year-old monorail trains are near hundred-year-old steam engines which are far more complex and still running today. Well not today today because of From.... You get the point :) what the right amount of Maintenance you can keep a train running.

I would love new trains, and this is just a guess with absolutely no inside information from me on this, my guess is they decided to reinvest in maintenance of the trains rather than buying new trains.

Back in 2017 when orange was notably cleaner and shinier than all the rest of the fleet the fleet was breaking down left and right... Several times a day and sometimes for hours at a time. The monorail Resorts and bus transportation came up with robust backup plans for not if but when the monorail went down. That is no longer the case.

Sometime in 2019 and into 2020 it became noticeably improved. Down times were short and infrequent. This trend has continued post pandemic reopening so admittedly obviously the trains are under less stress and usage due to the Epcot line being closed. But there is no denying the system reliability has definitely improved.

I think they got the message and started reinvesting in more maintenance. I don't think the problem just magically fixed itself. :)
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Back on topic, I saw monorail red yesterday and it looked really good. I know some don't but I'm really enjoying the color trapezoids in the middle of each monorail car.

Monorail orange is now going through the rehab. It was last painted in June of 2017. I remember posting about it because you could literally see your reflection in the shiny new paint job. This is somewhat encouraging that they are repainting a train that was repainted 4 years ago. I was looking at monorail Orange just the other week and was thinking to myself that it doesn't look brand-new anymore but it still looks good. It's nice to see that it's getting refreshed before it looked bad again. This is how it should be.

Also as someone once told me from inside the company yes the trains were planned for a 20-year life cycle but that's more from an accounting standpoint. Trains all over the world last much longer than 20 years.

Trying to compare apples to apples here, If you look at the fleet at the Vancouver SkyTrain they have some of the fleet younger but a good portion of the fleet is much older than 20 years.

Also just below these thirty-year-old monorail trains are near hundred-year-old steam engines which are far more complex and still running today. Well not today today because of From.... You get the point :) what the right amount of Maintenance you can keep a train running.

I would love new trains, and this is just a guess with absolutely no inside information from me on this, my guess is they decided to reinvest in maintenance of the trains rather than buying new trains.

Back in 2017 when orange was notably cleaner and shinier than all the rest of the fleet the fleet was breaking down left and right... Several times a day and sometimes for hours at a time. The monorail Resorts and bus transportation came up with robust backup plans for not if but when the monorail went down. That is no longer the case.

Sometime in 2019 and into 2020 it became noticeably improved. Down times were short and infrequent. This trend has continued post pandemic reopening so admittedly obviously the trains are under less stress and usage due to the Epcot line being closed. But there is no denying the system reliability has definitely improved.

I think they got the message and started reinvesting in more maintenance. I don't think the problem just magically fixed itself. :)
The burning question is did they fix the AC and successfully combat the smell? Those working I don't care about the clunky ride.
 

tanc

Premium Member
It's like covering a turd in ice cream sprinkles. They should really learn from Tokyo's monorail which looks absolutely fantastic.
 

monothingie

Squeaky Clean!
Premium Member
Back on topic, I saw monorail red yesterday and it looked really good. I know some don't but I'm really enjoying the color trapezoids in the middle of each monorail car.

Monorail orange is now going through the rehab. It was last painted in June of 2017. I remember posting about it because you could literally see your reflection in the shiny new paint job. This is somewhat encouraging that they are repainting a train that was repainted 4 years ago. I was looking at monorail Orange just the other week and was thinking to myself that it doesn't look brand-new anymore but it still looks good. It's nice to see that it's getting refreshed before it looked bad again. This is how it should be.

Also as someone once told me from inside the company yes the trains were planned for a 20-year life cycle but that's more from an accounting standpoint. Trains all over the world last much longer than 20 years.

Trying to compare apples to apples here, If you look at the fleet at the Vancouver SkyTrain they have some of the fleet younger but a good portion of the fleet is much older than 20 years.

Also just below these thirty-year-old monorail trains are near hundred-year-old steam engines which are far more complex and still running today. Well not today today because of From.... You get the point :) what the right amount of Maintenance you can keep a train running.

I would love new trains, and this is just a guess with absolutely no inside information from me on this, my guess is they decided to reinvest in maintenance of the trains rather than buying new trains.

Back in 2017 when orange was notably cleaner and shinier than all the rest of the fleet the fleet was breaking down left and right... Several times a day and sometimes for hours at a time. The monorail Resorts and bus transportation came up with robust backup plans for not if but when the monorail went down. That is no longer the case.

Sometime in 2019 and into 2020 it became noticeably improved. Down times were short and infrequent. This trend has continued post pandemic reopening so admittedly obviously the trains are under less stress and usage due to the Epcot line being closed. But there is no denying the system reliability has definitely improved.

I think they got the message and started reinvesting in more maintenance. I don't think the problem just magically fixed itself. :)
Progress so far:

Already Done: Red, Black, Silver, Lime, Green, Blue, Peach

Not Done: Coral, Gold, Yellow? Teal?

In Progress: Orange
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
Also just below these thirty-year-old monorail trains are near hundred-year-old steam engines which are far more complex and still running today. Well not today today because of From.... You get the point :) what the right amount of Maintenance you can keep a train running.

Not really a comparison...

The trains on the railroad were completely stripped down to the frames and rebuilt as diesel powered steam trains. They have also been sent away, in recent years, for a complete tear down and rebuild, with new tanks, wheels, engines, everything...right down to the frames. there is an excellent thread on this on this board, including pictures and details. The trains are basically completely new, with newly machined and fabricated parts on a restored frame.

The monorails, from what is being passed on, are getting mostly maintenance and cosmetic work done. It doesnt appear they are even getting the same service as DL trains got when they were refurbished, which was new motors and a complete strip down.
 

jme

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the hesitation to replace the fleet (yes, I know, money...). Would make perfect sense to have it updated for the 50th.
Here's a super-rough timeline for DLR vs WDW monorail fleet:

DLR:
1959-1960: Mark I (2 yrs)
1961-1967: Mark II (6 yrs)
1968-1987: Mark III (19 yrs)
1988-2007: Mark V (19 yrs)
2008-Current: Mark VII (13 yrs)

WDW:
1971-1988: Mark IV (17 yrs)
1989-Current: Mark VI (32 yrs)


Anything jump out at you?
 

bcoachable

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the hesitation to replace the fleet (yes, I know, money...). Would make perfect sense to have it updated for the 50th.
Here's a super-rough timeline for DLR vs WDW monorail fleet:

DLR:
1959-1960: Mark I (2 yrs)
1961-1967: Mark II (6 yrs)
1968-1987: Mark III (19 yrs)
1988-2007: Mark V (19 yrs)
2008-Current: Mark VII (13 yrs)

WDW:
1971-1988: Mark IV (17 yrs)
1989-Current: Mark VI (32 yrs)


Anything jump out at you?
Yea, Disney does a wonderful job recycling now as compared to years past??
;)
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the hesitation to replace the fleet (yes, I know, money...). Would make perfect sense to have it updated for the 50th.
Here's a super-rough timeline for DLR vs WDW monorail fleet:

DLR:
1959-1960: Mark I (2 yrs)
1961-1967: Mark II (6 yrs)
1968-1987: Mark III (19 yrs)
1988-2007: Mark V (19 yrs)
2008-Current: Mark VII (13 yrs)

WDW:
1971-1988: Mark IV (17 yrs)
1989-Current: Mark VI (32 yrs)


Anything jump out at you?
The Mark V and Mark VII were not complete replacements. The Mark VII reuses the Mark III chassis and Mark V bodies (except the noses). The Mark VI could be rebuilt and be just as good as new (unless they botch it). The bigger issue is the poor maintenance. New trains will start falling apart if not maintained.
 

monothingie

Squeaky Clean!
Premium Member
The Mark V and Mark VII were not complete replacements. The Mark VII reuses the Mark III chassis and Mark V bodies (except the noses). The Mark VI could be rebuilt and be just as good as new (unless they botch it). The bigger issue is the poor maintenance. New trains will start falling apart if not maintained.
Very much true. It's easy to blame everything wrong with the trains on age, but that doesn't address the problem of them being neglected for so long and the necessity for regular and preventative maintenance.

In the last 5 years there seems to have been an earnest effort being made to improve this. The trains are getting the maintenance they should have always received, and things are improving. Has anyone heard of any major issues with the system since the pieces broke off Blue? or door broke off Lime a couple of years ago? Instances of broken down trains have been reduced, glitches with the automation system have been worked out, things are getting better.

It's nice to want new trains, but after the automation system installation and the pre-covid train refurbs, these trains are going to be around for another 10 years.
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
DLR:
1959-1960: Mark I (2 yrs)
1961-1967: Mark II (6 yrs)
1968-1987: Mark III (19 yrs)
1988-2007: Mark V (19 yrs)
2008-Current: Mark VII (13 yrs)

WDW:
1971-1988: Mark IV (17 yrs)
1989-Current: Mark VI (32 yrs)


Anything jump out at you?

Yeah, they keep using the name Mark. Can the Imagineers really not think of a different name for the trains????

So unoriginal...


;)
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
Not really a comparison...

The trains on the railroad were completely stripped down to the frames and rebuilt as diesel powered steam trains. They have also been sent away, in recent years, for a complete tear down and rebuild, with new tanks, wheels, engines, everything...right down to the frames. there is an excellent thread on this on this board, including pictures and details. The trains are basically completely new, with newly machined and fabricated parts on a restored frame.

The monorails, from what is being passed on, are getting mostly maintenance and cosmetic work done. It doesnt appear they are even getting the same service as DL trains got when they were refurbished, which was new motors and a complete strip down.
Exactly, wwith the right amount of Maintenance they can continue to run well beyond their intended life .

The steam engines are not diesel powered. The boilers they use to produce the steam that powers the locomotive burns a diesel. This does not make them diesel-powered. This just means they're using a diesel fuel for the flame instead of coal or wood.
 

jme

Well-Known Member
The Mark V and Mark VII were not complete replacements. The Mark VII reuses the Mark III chassis and Mark V bodies (except the noses). The Mark VI could be rebuilt and be just as good as new (unless they botch it). The bigger issue is the poor maintenance. New trains will start falling apart if not maintained.
True - and I did note it was a very-rough timeline - but I think my point still stands. Why bother repainting them (and adding a delta to red is just... weird) when you've got such a huge milestone anniversary upcoming. It would have been the perfect case for giving the fleet a major overhaul.
They could even do the same with repurposing the chassis (after a thorough rehab) and fabricating some new bodies to give a much needed refreshed look to their fleet, while adding in some modern features like USB chargers, LED lighting, etc as they did with the bus fleet.
 

ppete1975

Well-Known Member
Are you really going to suggest doors being stuck open are not a serious safety concern tied to vehicles past their shelf life?

If you couldn’t close your car door and the damage was irreparable, you’d get a new car.

View attachment 531561
according to your own example, we took the car to the mechanic and the door was fixed. Yes there was a moment in time that there were several occurrences of issues with the monorails.. and right now we have no idea since they are barely being used. But did these things always happen, people just didnt have social media and video recorders in every pocket. Before if something happened you might tell someone, now its posted on social media and shared.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
according to your own example, we took the car to the mechanic and the door was fixed. Yes there was a moment in time that there were several occurrences of issues with the monorails.. and right now we have no idea since they are barely being used. But did these things always happen, people just didnt have social media and video recorders in every pocket. Before if something happened you might tell someone, now its posted on social media and shared.
People will literally defend anything this company does.

Let’s see if we can push these monorails up to a 40-year life. It’s good enough for the fans.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
People will literally defend anything this company does.

Let’s see if we can push these monorails up to a 40-year life. It’s good enough for the fans.
The lifespan of a train is not some immutable truth with linear decay. Well maintained 40 year old trains can be safe while a poorly maintained 4 year old train can be dangerous. How well and safe a system operates is also not constant. There can and often are periods where operations are better and worse. Just because there were problems in the past does not mean that exist forever.
 

ppete1975

Well-Known Member
People will literally defend anything this company does.

Let’s see if we can push these monorails up to a 40-year life. It’s good enough for the fans.
not defending, and im pro new monorail. The writer said if my car door broke id get a new car. I wouldnt, id fix the door. That appears to be what disney did as well. As far as everyone having a cell phone and social media, im sure jungle cruise boats have had issues in the past yet there wasnt a way to share it to humanity that we do now.
 

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