Monorail Pilot's Mother Is Suing Disney

[board57796]

Did the accident happen in this "minute or two" time period?

and during that minute or two, no track switching should have been approved. It should not have been approved until central was in position and on duty

I'll requote myself:

Are you referring to the sick coordinator of the Manager? The Manager, before the Central Coordinator got sick, was never acting as Central, and he left the property under the assumption that he had "no" responsibilities while he was on his lunch. It wasn't until he was actually off property that the other coordinator radioed to be sent home, and the Manager appointed another Coordinator to act as Central right away, with the Manager being Central in the interim. It could have been a matter of a minute or two.

Did I say it was a minute or two :shrug:

Edit because I was typing in frustration, but I am going to stop posting "speculation" and get back to the facts I know about Monorails.

 

[unkadug]

Edit because I was typing in frustration, but I am going to stop posting "speculation" and get back to the facts I know about Monorails.

Could of been 20 minutes?

Still, did the accident happen in this time period?

I'm wondering if there was anyone actually THERE that was IN CHARGE. :shrug:

I'm asking you, because you DO seem like you know FACTS. :wave:

 

[board57796]

Could of been 20 minutes?

Still, did the accident happen in this time period?

I'm wondering if there was anyone actually THERE that was IN CHARGE. :shrug:

I'm asking you, because you DO seem like you know FACTS. :wave:

I gotcha. Just hard to get "tone" over the internet :wave:

Yes, the accident did occur, according to the news article, when the Central duties were sort of "in limbo." The original coordinator had gone home, another was appointed the duty and was on his way to the tower to assume the duty, the Manager was Central in the meantime, and that is when the accident occured. Could have been 30 seconds, and the Manager only gave the one fateful command to reverse, or could have been any reasonable ammount of time for the other coordinator to come "on duty", 10, 20, 30 minutes?

The phsyical tower, according to the reports, was unmanned at the time. There were people in charge on property. In my opinion, had the tower been manned at the time, the accident would not have occured.

However, that being said, it was not required for the tower TO be manned during this procedure. That policy is now changed.

I find no fault in the manager, personally. Had anyone else who had been acting as Central heard the shop say the switches were thrown, even if they were on the Concourse platform themselves, not in the tower, they would have given the same "clearance" to Pink to back up.

Basically what I am saying is, whether the Manager was at Perkins, Hooters, the Moon, Concourse, Magic Kingdom, etc etc, he would have given the same call for Pink to reverse, because shop told him the switch had been completed. There is a trust we had in each other that cant be explained by "procedures" or really known until you simply experience it.

 

[unkadug]

Thanks. So policy HAS been changed requiring someone to be at the tower during such procedures. Good, hopefully this and other changes implemented (or about to be) will prevent such a tragedy from happening again.


One more question... Doesn't someone at platform have a remote emergency stop switch?

Why wasn't it pushed? Someone had to see something wasn't right. :shrug:

Panic maybe? Inattention?

 

[board57796]

Thanks. So policy HAS been changed requiring someone to be at the tower during such procedures. Good, hopefully this and other changes implemented (or about to be) will prevent such a tragedy from happening again.


One more question... Doesn't someone at platform have a remote emergency stop switch?

Why wasn't it pushed? Someone had to see something wasn't right. :shrug:

Panic maybe? Inattention?

I agree, I don't see an accident like this ever occuring again.

Yes the platform workers have a kill pack, but to be honest, they aren't "expecting" a train to come in reverse through their station at 15mph. They are more there to keep Guests safely away from the trough, and to answer their questions. By the time that Pink entered the station (the view can be slightly obstructed by Central, depending on where youre standing) and it registered what was about to happen, reaching to your hip and hitting the kill pack, it may not have been enough time.

Or had they not been listening to the radio, they may have just thought Pink was reversing back into the station for a maintenance check and didn't realize it wasn't going to be stopping until too late. :shrug:

I'd like to think "Had I been there I would have killed power instantly" but, honestly, who knows what would go through ones head at that moment.

 

[Figments Friend]

I think it was a case of mere seconds ticking by before the reality of what was happening set in for whoever was on Platform that night. Seriously, it was a split-second moment in time that we are all revisiting over and over again and questioning to ourselves privately - 'What IF....' I think by the time anyone actually saw what was about to happen, it was too late to really do anything about it.

Just my thoughts, considering all the seperate things that had to happen to make the end result.

The trust Board speaks of is solid- i completely agree that anyone who was on duty in the position would have given the exact same command since Shop said all was a 'go'.

I also agree that had the tower been manned, it is possible this could have been avoided...but considering Pink was already in motion with 8 tons behind it to stop, i think we still would have seen a crash. If someone saw the trains coming together and reacted to hit a kill switch, the E-brakes would have kicked in and might have caused the crash to be less serious. We will never know for sure...

Even after 2 weeks now i am STILL in emotional shock about this whole thing.

I really feel for the CM's who have to cope with this.

 

[board57796]

I think it was a case of mere seconds ticking by before the reality of what was happening set in for whoever was on Platform that night. Seriously, it was a split-second moment in time that we are all revisiting over and over again and questioning to ourselves privately - 'What IF....' I think by the time anyone actually saw what was about to happen, it was too late to really do anything about it.

Just my thoughts, considering all the seperate things that had to happen to make the end result.

The trust Board speaks of is solid- i completely agree that anyone who was on duty in the position would have given the exact same command since Shop said all was a 'go'.

I also agree that had the tower been manned, it is possible this could have been avoided...but considering Pink was already in motion with 8 tons behind it to stop, i think we still would have seen a crash. If someone saw the trains coming together and reacted to hit a kill switch, the E-brakes would have kicked in and might have caused the crash to be less serious. We will never know for sure...

Even after 2 weeks now i am STILL in emotional shock about this whole thing.

I really feel for the CM's who have to cope with this.

Just for clarification, the trains are closer to 55 tons each.

 

[unkadug]

Board, I got one more question.

The Kill switch...what exactly does it do? Does it kill power to the whole track system? Only certain areas? Does it affect the spur line?

Does it leave power on but throw brakes the on? How fast does it take place?

OK...I guess that was more than one question! :lol:

 

[board57796]

Board, I got one more question.

The Kill switch...what exactly does it do? Does it kill power to the whole track system? Only certain areas? Does it affect the spur line?

Does it leave power on but throw brakes the on? How fast does it take place?

OK...I guess that was more than one question! :lol:

It kills power at to the beam at the station the pack is assinged to and, I would say, 10 pylons out on either side. When power is killed on a train the Emergency Brakes are automatically applied and you have a Red MAPO showing (along with many other beeps and buzzes).

The only kill pack that I think would affect a spur was the one at Base, if the spur were aligned to Express. One of our "never dos" is NEVER stop on a switch.

You would be suprised how quickly a train under emergency stop, stops.

 

[mastif]

I have a few questions.

Aren't there saftey sensors in the trains/tracks to prevent trains from colliding?

Is there any kind of diagaram or video to explain what happened? I'm a visual learner and having some trouble understanding what happened. Can anyone clear it up? did adams train run into the rear of another train? or were both cabs at impact piloted?

 

[Figments Friend]

Check out the original 'Monorail Crash' thead here...it will answer all your questions.

 

[toystory 3]

This situation is very sad but it is still an accident. It just seems like it is being blow way out of proportion. All of the money in the world is not going to bring her son back and it feels like the only reason why she is seeking a settlement is because it is Disney.

 

[kashmir]

This situation is very sad but it is still an accident. It just seems like it is being blow way out of proportion. All of the money in the world is not going to bring her son back and it feels like the only reason why she is seeking a settlement is because it is Disney.

The mother of the driver killed (Austin) wants information to be saved and not destroyed...she has not asked for additional compensation.

 

[wdwfan22]

actually, that was ME that said they would settle out of court.

Disney will play fair, they won't 'give up and roll over' but they'll play fair, especially in this case...

Anyone can get sick ANYTIME, thats how the human condition works. I've 'started' feeling ill late in the evening, or in the morning... 'sick' doesn't have a clock..Either way, the blame doesn't lay with the sick employee, they handed-off theiur responsibility as per protocol.. I don't like finger pointing, but this problem started when the maintenance employee failed to move the switch, plain and simple..

and do me a favor, keep the personal attacks to yourself.. I'm sure you wouldn't dare say I was 'high on nose pixie dust' to me in person, so why say it here? Because you can hide behind your keyboard?

You are wrong. The problem isn't just with the maintenance employee, the manager is at fault as well. The manager approved for the person to leave ill without waiting for someone to replace them. Had the manager been on property he or she could have filled in until that replacement arrived. So no the blame isn't just with the maintenance employee.

 

[WDW1974]

The 'blame' is on an entire culture that has built up at Disney where safety is no longer the top priority ... period.

This was a disaster a decade in the making ... it didn't have to happen and that's the biggest tragedy of them all. Wait ... a real bus disaster is long in the making too (and that's not counting all the crashes they've had that you're aware of!)

Too many things are now just taken for granted as any longtime (mostly former) railie will tell you. Saving money and not inconveniencing guests have become more important than actually running a safe system.

Treating the rails the same as other positions was the first mistake ... read David Koenig's excellent blog on another Disney planet.com for more info.

The bottom line is Disney should pay thru the nose for this ... and then they should fundamentally alter the way the rails are run ... no PR BS like banning guests from riding in the cab (something akin in stupidity to not letting anyone inside the statue of liberty from 2001 until now!) Train (no pun intended) a specialized work force. Pay them real wages. Make them accountable (including managers). And don't cut corners to save a buck (as these settlements will prove, they'll pay more in the end this way anyway).

And as to the family ... they've just lost a son needlessly ... stupidly ... one who apparently was the ONLY person who actually was doing his job right that night ... what exactly is that worth? Or should they give Mickey a discount?

 

[Empress Room]

The bottom line is Disney should pay thru the nose for this ... and then they should fundamentally alter the way the rails are run ... no PR BS like banning guests from riding in the cab (something akin in stupidity to not letting anyone inside the statue of liberty from 2001 until now!) Train (no pun intended) a specialized work force. Pay them real wages. Make them accountable (including managers). And don't cut corners to save a buck (as these settlements will prove, they'll pay more in the end this way anyway).

It is very unlikely indeed that "Disney [will] pay thru the nose for this." The monorail pilot's death, as tragic as it is, "arose out of and in the course of employment," and therefore his (estate's) compensation and benefits are controlled by the exclusive remedy provisions of the state's workers' compensation statutes. Each state has created such statutes for precisely this reason - to avoid long, protracted litigation where blame is debated and the civil court system overloaded. Workers' compensation statutes contempate and prescribe certain monetary compensation depending upon the workplace injury, even death. Although his estate will receive the statutorily provided benefits, it will not receive a "bazillion dollar" settlement or verdict.

(The only exception to the exclusive remedy provisions of the workers' compensation statutes in most states is for "willful" conduct by the employer - this is a very rare occurrence because the worker (or his estate) would have to prove by preponderance of the evidence that the employer intended to harm the worker. This does not appear to be this kind of incident.)

 

[WDWFigment]

It is very unlikely indeed that "Disney [will] pay thru the nose for this." The monorail pilot's death, as tragic as it is, "arose out of and in the course of employment," and therefore his (estate's) compensation and benefits are controlled by the exclusive remedy provisions of the state's workers' compensation statutes. Each state has created such statutes for precisely this reason - to avoid long, protracted litigation where blame is debated and the civil court system overloaded. Workers' compensation statutes contempate and prescribe certain monetary compensation depending upon the workplace injury, even death. Although his estate will receive the statutorily provided benefits, it will not receive a "bazillion dollar" settlement or verdict.

(The only exception to the exclusive remedy provisions of the workers' compensation statutes in most states is for "willful" conduct by the employer - this is a very rare occurrence because the worker (or his estate) would have to prove by preponderance of the evidence that the employer intended to harm the worker. This does not appear to be this kind of incident.)

I would disagree. The value of this case is clearly in settlement, and that at most requires the deceased's estate to pass summary judgment (probably not even to get that far) because of the harm to goodwill that this case costs Disney if it continues to get publicity (and I'm sure each pleading filed will "inadvertently" get sent to the Sentinel). As far as summary judgment goes, there is some mixed authority:

See Cabrera v. T.J. Pavement Corp., App. 3 Dist., 2008 WL 4922600 (2008) (genuine issue of material fact as to whether employer's conduct, including violation of safety regulations governing trenching, was substantially certain to result in injury to employee, so as to warrant application of the intentional tort exception to workers' compensation immunity, precluded summary judgment in wrongful death action against employer by estate of employee killed while working in trench which collapsed).

But see Bourassa v. Busch Entertainment Corp., App. 2 Dist., 929 So.2d 552 (2006) (expert affidavit submitted by zoo keeper in her action against amusement park arising out of an injury sustained during a simulated blood draw on lion at amusement park, in which expert criticized the blood draw procedure and recommended ways in which amusement park could make the process safer, was insufficient to create a genuine issue of material fact precluding summary judgment as to the applicability of the intentional tort exception to workers' compensation immunity; evidence that the process could be safer did not establish that amusement park acted with deliberate indifference to employee safety).

My guess is that even if a court would follow Bourassa, the amount of time it would take for a favorable ruling would preclude Disney from letting the case stay in court so long.

 

[dmagickingdom]

And, once again, you don't know that that's what happened. Even if you did, you don't have the experience of this work environment to make that judgment.

Orlando Sentinel is vaguely close to how I understand what happened, but still quite off the mark. But it is very correct that they can go off property for their break, any Cast Member can. Many of the Central coordinators are decent enough to help out during their break if necessary. Don't take that to mean that they are lax in their awareness of what's going on.

In speaking with another fellow Pilot just now, it in fact sounds like this manager was out getting pizza for the Monorail Cast Members who had to work this tough holiday. It makes perfect sense to me now, having pizza ready for us at the end of the night was a common practice for strenuous holidays. I believe I'd also heard that he'd sent the Central coordinator home earlier in the evening because he was feeling ill.

Well Mr. Epcot, let me share with you and everyone else some things about ur managers that u don't wanna talk about or don't know. Ur managers r ALWAYS pushing cycle times and to get the monorails moving and quickly. While this seems good, it is a recipe for disaster. If the managers would come out from in the bomb shelter or away from Perkins then they could more effectively "manage" monorail operations (i don't know what kind of break u get but NO ONE in the parks goes from property. It takes 10 minutes to walk to ur car (even in Chip and Dale where you guys park) 10 minutes back and how many minutes just to get to Perkins or Hess for that matter. How long of a break do u get cause driving/walking ALONE is more than 20 minutes.)
Here's the good stuff though!
One of ur coordinators worked in watercraft as a TA Manager and crashed that electrical light boat causing thousands of dollars worth of damage before coming to the rails. One of ur managers brings untrained CM's from monorails over to the boats and lets THEM drive with guests on board. I guess u gotta be a cute rail girl to get that treatment! That's not too safe! And another one of ur managers worked in watercraft as a manager and crashed a manager's boat into a lighted buoy thus prompting the transfer to rails. So it seems that ur managers are not quite as professional and great as u make them out to be. They make mistakes that seem to go unpunished up until this monorail tragedy. BTW- the manager responsible for Austin's crash is one of the managers listed above.
Buses, are always pushing for cycle times. CM's are constantly being harassed over the radio to speed things up. Perhaps that is why there was a crash this week in buses. Perhaps that's why I have always feared for my life when on a Disney bus. The only worse place I have ever feared for my life more while riding in a bus was in the Caribbean islands! If u have ever been on a bus in the caribbean, then u know what I am talking about.

So in conclusion, since I have been educated and become familiar with monorail management I can conclude that AT LEAST, until Austin's death Monorail Management was "lax in their awareness of what's going on"(As a matter of fact, just go sit at TTC one day and watch monorail CM's and mgmt talk and carry on, unaware much of the time on what's going on). I would drop names to prove my stories it but I won't go that far. Now, lets just see if the area manager gets to keep his job after these two accidents. He appears to be a great guy but he really needed to replace most monorail mgmt. and some watercraft and bus management a long time ago and preach to the mgmt "safeD" instead of cycle times. ARRIVE ALIVE!

Mr. Epcot, we all love Disney but there is no need to throw yourself under the bus to defend people that really shouldn't be defended. You know most managers at Disney in general (all depts considered) were CP's that came back and got the job because they were a CP. This means that many are young and immature. Disney loves to promote CP's because they don't have a family life to support and can provide 24 hr availability, plus they have not been in the real world to know that the salary they are receiving is poor compared to the work they are supposed to be doing. Also it is rare that I see company business being exchanged on the blackberries! There is endless IM and chat and pict exchanges going on and little Disney business. So, when u see a manager using their blackberry device, you can almost guarantee that it is small talk with their friends.

 

[dmagickingdom]

I would disagree. The value of this case is clearly in settlement, and that at most requires the deceased's estate to pass summary judgment (probably not even to get that far) because of the harm to goodwill that this case costs Disney if it continues to get publicity (and I'm sure each pleading filed will "inadvertently" get sent to the Sentinel). As far as summary judgment goes, there is some mixed authority:

See Cabrera v. T.J. Pavement Corp., App. 3 Dist., 2008 WL 4922600 (2008) (genuine issue of material fact as to whether employer's conduct, including violation of safety regulations governing trenching, was substantially certain to result in injury to employee, so as to warrant application of the intentional tort exception to workers' compensation immunity, precluded summary judgment in wrongful death action against employer by estate of employee killed while working in trench which collapsed).

But see Bourassa v. Busch Entertainment Corp., App. 2 Dist., 929 So.2d 552 (2006) (expert affidavit submitted by zoo keeper in her action against amusement park arising out of an injury sustained during a simulated blood draw on lion at amusement park, in which expert criticized the blood draw procedure and recommended ways in which amusement park could make the process safer, was insufficient to create a genuine issue of material fact precluding summary judgment as to the applicability of the intentional tort exception to workers' compensation immunity; evidence that the process could be safer did not establish that amusement park acted with deliberate indifference to employee safety).

My guess is that even if a court would follow Bourassa, the amount of time it would take for a favorable ruling would preclude Disney from letting the case stay in court so long.

I love that you clearly backed ur opinion up with fact! Great job. It's clear and in black and white!

 

[dmagickingdom]

I find it interesting that whenever someone "dies before their time" whether it is due to an accident or illness, someone always must be blamed. CMs, physicians, and us here on this board are human. We make mistakes. There was no malice towards the deceased from his fellow CMs, and I'm sure the people involved feel worse and have a greater sense of responsibility than some of the arm chair quarterbacks on this board, but the mob must be satisfied and a sacrificial lamb must be given. I think Disney should pay for the funeral and expenses associated with his death, but what else does the family gain by getting a cash payment? Basically they put a price on their son's head. If the family is serious about finding out what happened and wanting to prevent it in the future they should ensure Disney puts safeguards in place to make sure this can't happen. A series of events occured that caused this death, but to point the finger and blame one person as if it is given that they would have prevented this is silly. I'm tired of seeing a lot of speculation and finger pointing from people who know very little about the accual situation and act if they have never made a mistake in their life.

I agree in part but you know the family is going to take their money and could care less if Disney changes their policies. They lost what they love dearly and money is their way of making their life a little better given the terrible situation, and it would hit disney where it hurts most. The bank account!
Second, I agree EVERYONE makes mistakes and this was an example of it. This mistake however was VERY avoidable if the manager would do what every other CM does by taking their breaks on property and being available somewhat since he was the duty manager. This was not a trip and fall accident. This was a negligence issue and people should pay for that. This is almost manslaughter. It was a non-intended death that occurred without malice but was due to something as simple as a manager LOOKING WITH HIS EYES to see the track was moved before giving a go to switch.