The problem is the core issue is that the pilot wasn't paying attention. Had someone been in the rear cab when the accident occurred it's likely there may have been two fatalities instead of one. Until they address the real issue there is always going to be a risk of similar or different accidents occurring.
I don't think DL's classification as an attraction has anything to do with why it's allowed there but not WDW.
I don't think DL's classification as an attraction has anything to do with why it's allowed there but not WDW.
By no means was "pilot distraction" the core issue.
The rear cab positions in the past were not for the purpose of making visuals when backing up, the driver was responsible for that. When the accident happened all of the procedures and SOP were being followed correctly. It was one of those rare sequences of events that would have only been prevented by people being attentive and knowledgeable with their job and there were several people who had an opportunity to stop it.If there had been a rear pilot, there would have been no incident. Plain and simple. In the past, there were rear pilots that would board the train prior to a switching operation. These positions were cut as a cost cutting measure about 15 years ago when the Mark VI monorails were introduced. (please correct me if my dates are wrong). Better "prism mirrors" were the official reasons for allowing this position cut. Again, the core issue to the incident was a lack of managerial supervision. Had proper SOP been followed, this would not have ever occurred.
DL's classification as an attraction over transport system has EVERYTHING to do with it. If an incident were to occur, the NTSB would not be involved and there would be no government oversight except for OSHA. Look back at the Skyway incidents in the past. They were classified as attractions and not transportation, so the NTSB did not conduct an investigation. The WDW Railroad is also classified as transportation and not attraction. If there were an incident, the NTSB would also be brought in to invenstigate. I think it has something to do with funding to maintain the steam boilers and recertification process. I know museums and other non-transportation operators have to go through a recertification process that is much more stringent than those using steam power for transportation.
Just because you have an opinion does not mean it cannot be questioned and/or discussed. The basic point is that, to many, the basis for your opinion does not make a logical connection to your opinion. Comments about distracted drivers appear to come from misinformation, not a more full understanding of what happened that night.I usually go to the disboards..... frankly i forgot about this site...I do like this site though way fewer Mothers. But I dont know why i have to defend myself for having an opinion
Disney's not saying anything. If they ever do, it'll probably just start happening one day, no announcement, no fanfare... But I personally doubt it ever will be allowed again, too much liability.![]()
DL's classification as an attraction over transport system has EVERYTHING to do with it. If an incident were to occur, the NTSB would not be involved and there would be no government oversight except for OSHA. Look back at the Skyway incidents in the past. They were classified as attractions and not transportation, so the NTSB did not conduct an investigation. The WDW Railroad is also classified as transportation and not attraction. If there were an incident, the NTSB would also be brought in to invenstigate. I think it has something to do with funding to maintain the steam boilers and recertification process. I know museums and other non-transportation operators have to go through a recertification process that is much more stringent than those using steam power for transportation.
Disney doesn't get to just arbitrarily decide if something is not a transport system (and in the terms of this thread, a common carrier). The law decides. And in certain cases, a judge makes the determination. In 2005 the CA Supreme Court declared amusement park rides as common carriers, which increased the liability of park owners. A determination was going to be made in FL with respect to the monorail, but the case settled before the judge could rule. In fact, Disney argued it wasn't, because it was a private system for resort guests only. But as we saw, the NTSB saw fit to investigate the monorail accident, though it's not clear to me if that's because a detrmination was in fact made prior to the incident, or Disney begrudgenly allowed it because of the PR disaster just waiting to happen if they refused to cooperate.
Niether the NTSB nor OSHA really have the authority to tell Disney how to operate. They can make recommendations and OSHA has done this but Disney does not have to follow them. As a government agency their purpose is to enforce existing laws not create rules for theme parks.
Correct. If it's not a law, they can't be forced to do anything. However, if OSHA or NTSB makes recommendations, and you don't follow them and then someone else tragic happens....party's over.
Niether the NTSB nor OSHA really have the authority to tell Disney how to operate. They can make recommendations and OSHA has done this but Disney does not have to follow them. As a government agency their purpose is to enforce existing laws not create rules for theme parks.
Nowhere in my post did I state or imply that they did have that authority. Though if they find Disney is operating contrary to the law, they can enforce the law by levying fines. And these agencies CAN be empowered to create laws (regulations).
I was merely trying to distinguish between a common carrier and an attraction, and that Disney, just because it operates the monorail, doesn't get to decide if it is one or the other. Only the law can do that. And in my quick internet search, there has been no definite ruling. As a common carrier, Disney's liabilty increases significantly, diminishing the assumption of risk one takes by riding theme park rides.
Naturally, Disney claims that it is a transportation system, but since it is privately owned and not available to anyone, it isn't a common carrier. The government, in a previous case, that while it is operated privately, the public has easy enough access to the system to make it a common carrier. That particular case was settled before a determination was made.
I used the monorail accident as an example because the NTSB was involved in the investigation, and posited the question on whether or not their involvement was the result of a positive determination that the monorail is a common carrier OR that Disney simply cooperated because it would make a PR nightmare even worse by refusing.
Real reason people should not be in the front car of the Monorail....if it happened once it can happen twice
http://www.wesh.com/slideshow/news/23039492/detail.html
look at these and picture your loved ones in that car....Its a chance that does not need to be taken
With your logic, one could post pictures of car crashes and claim that no one should ever ride in a car. You could even post pictures of collapsed roofs adn claim that one should never step inside a building. :brick:
Real reason people should not be in the front car of the Monorail....if it happened once it can happen twice
http://www.wesh.com/slideshow/news/23039492/detail.html
look at these and picture your loved ones in that car....Its a chance that does not need to be taken
If there is a chance it could happen again than the pilots shouldn't be allowed up there either.
If you look at the photos of the fire on the silver monorail than you could just as easily come to the same conclusion that guests shouldn't be allowed to ride in the cars either.
Accidents happen the best you can do to prevent them is learn from them and try to correct areas that may have contributed to the accident. If Disney isn't allowing guests up front because they expect another accident than they are intentionally putting their employees in what they feel is a risky situation.
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