Monorail Expansion

[majortom1981]

so regular trians would be about the same price

So adding trains would be about the same price as a monorail then right?

Here on Long Island right The babylon train branch is on raised platforms made of concrete.

So if disney were to add trains it would be around the same price right?

 

[Master Yoda]

So adding trains would be about the same price as a monorail then right?

Here on Long Island right The babylon train branch is on raised platforms made of concrete.

So if disney were to add trains it would be around the same price right?

Trains would be cheaper if you were using common off the shelf components. But you also have to remember this is Disney. If they are going to put in any system other than a monorail it would need to appear more advanced than the monorail itself. Tricked out subway ares aren't going to cut it. A system like Skytran or a modernized version of the TTA would fly but I can't see an everyday commuter rail system fitting in with Disney theming.

 

[majortom1981]

hmm

BUt if the trains where to be raised it should cost about the same amount right? Since everybody is saying its the cement beams and track that make the high price and not the trains?

 

[Master Yoda]

BUt if the trains where to be raised it should cost about the same amount right? Since everybody is saying its the cement beams and track that make the high price and not the trains?

If the columns were the same than yes but I seriously doubt they would be. In Florida you at best are building on sand at WDW you are building mainly on reclaimed swamp land. Columns would need to be larger and possibly more be placed frequently.

There is also the compadability of the track. When building on such an unstable base the track has to have more flexibility in it otherwise it will begin to fracture.

 

[Unplugged]

I can't help but think that with the advances in concrete structural production methods that this can't be done for a proportionately lower amount. That is, less than the adjusted current $5m per mile as some have estimated. Seems that the cost should be quite a bit less. I too would be interested in seeing the cost analysis for this.

When the original monorail was constructed, the beams were made and shipped by train from Washington state. At todays rates, that's a lot of money. They could be produced locally using a slip cast method, and should Disney insist on keeping the same arched underside beam design, the casting could be done upside down (flat side down) to allow for a single machine to quickly cast around the rebar structure and allow for the arch. Even the pillars can be pre-cast in molds at a backstage area and bolted in place. Additional advances in conrete blends and rebar design may even allow for longer distances requiring fewre pillars and lower ground prep & base costs. Modern electrical distribution systems should provide some enhancement to the equation, potentially lowering operating costs on a new line verse the old line(s).

I don't see why the same train body design couldn't be implemented again as Bombardier already has the molds for the composite body production. This should radically reduce implementation costs as no new design is required. Additionally, Disney just upgraded the control system no long ago, so again, no new design required.

Oh well, it's all Fantasy in the Sky anyway, right?

 

[marni1971]

^ The WDW beams wern`t regular concrete. They were a composite honeycomb core with a steel and concrete surround.

 

[scottnj1966]

The problem with using the $88 million/mile figure from this Vegas project as a frame of reference is that there are seven platforms on the 4 mile stretch. Considering that the $88 million/mile figure includes the cost of 1.75 platforms per mile, those figures kind of skew the actual cost of an expansion at WDW. Not that it wouldn't be expensive, but we're comparing apples to oranges here...

Also Disney already owns there land. The Vegas property had to be bought and things knocked down.

 

[Johnn83]

The fact is that the number one question asked by guest according to Disney for years, is why dosen't the monorail go to MGM and The Animal Kindom. Not having the monorail going to all the parks makes it look like Disney is having money problems. The monorail should have been expanded when MGM and The Animal Kindom were built. Get it done! Expand it now!

 

[peter11435]

The fact is that the number one question asked by guest according to Disney for years, is why dosen't the monorail go to MGM and The Animal Kindom. Not having the monorail going to all the parks makes it look like Disney is having money problems. The monorail should have been expanded when MGM and The Animal Kindom were built. Get it done! Expand it now!

In all the time I have worked at WDW I gave never had a guest ask me why the monorail doesn't go to MGM and AK.

 

[unkadug]

In all the time I have worked at WDW I gave never had a guest ask me why the monorail doesn't go to MGM and AK.

Hey, Peter, I've got a question for you................:lookaroun...uh...nevermind

 

[Master Yoda]

I can't help but think that with the advances in concrete structural production methods that this can't be done for a proportionately lower amount. That is, less than the adjusted current $5m per mile as some have estimated. Seems that the cost should be quite a bit less. I too would be interested in seeing the cost analysis for this.

When the original monorail was constructed, the beams were made and shipped by train from Washington state. At todays rates, that's a lot of money. They could be produced locally using a slip cast method, and should Disney insist on keeping the same arched underside beam design, the casting could be done upside down (flat side down) to allow for a single machine to quickly cast around the rebar structure and allow for the arch. Even the pillars can be pre-cast in molds at a backstage area and bolted in place. Additional advances in conrete blends and rebar design may even allow for longer distances requiring fewre pillars and lower ground prep & base costs. Modern electrical distribution systems should provide some enhancement to the equation, potentially lowering operating costs on a new line verse the old line(s).

I don't see why the same train body design couldn't be implemented again as Bombardier already has the molds for the composite body production. This should radically reduce implementation costs as no new design is required. Additionally, Disney just upgraded the control system no long ago, so again, no new design required.

Oh well, it's all Fantasy in the Sky anyway, right?

While the process might be cheaper the materials are not. A few years ago China started a building spree. Not to long ago China would export a billion a year in steel. When this building spree started they imported a billion in steel. This drastically effected the supply of steel world wide causing the price to shoot up at a rate that would make todays gas prices look like a good deal. Supply of concrete dropped as well and of course price went up along with it. In most cases when a commodity like steel or concrete has a drastic price increase the cost will never return to the previous prices.

 

[socalkdg]

While the process might be cheaper the materials are not. A few years ago China started a building spree. Not to long ago China would export a billion a year in steel. When this building spree started they imported a billion in steel. This drastically effected the supply of steel world wide causing the price to shoot up at a rate that would make todays gas prices look like a good deal. Supply of concrete dropped as well and of course price went up along with it. In most cases when a commodity like steel or concrete has a drastic price increase the cost will never return to the previous prices.

We went from .35 lb for 1010 slit steel coils to .55 lb. in the last couple years. Whats interesting about concrete is that the supply is there(Mexico) but there is a law on the books that limits the amount that can be imported, thus a shortage as U.S. companies can't keep up with the need.

 

[brucie]

Wow being new to wdwmagic i have never read such a long and interesting thread. I don't know who anyone is yet (Corrus, Thrawn apparently he's dead though) and the rest. But wow some much talk of a monorail expansion. I agree with everyone that it would be cool, except for one person who didnt want it. But I will have to agree with most that it would cost to much, despite what the people say about not understanding why it costs so much it's pretty obvious. And yes it is a big company that is looking at profit and not going to spend the cash, even though is is Disney and they are known for going the extra mile. Every comapany has limits and from a business standpoint I don't see it happening in this decade if ever!

Although don't forget Im a newbee, what do I know!

 

[captcanada]

Wow being new to wdwmagic i have never read such a long and interesting thread. I don't know who anyone is yet (Corrus, Thrawn apparently he's dead though) and the rest. But wow some much talk of a monorail expansion. I agree with everyone that it would be cool, except for one person who didnt want it. But I will have to agree with most that it would cost to much, despite what the people say about not understanding why it costs so much it's pretty obvious. And yes it is a big company that is looking at profit and not going to spend the cash, even though is is Disney and they are known for going the extra mile. Every comapany has limits and from a business standpoint I don't see it happening in this decade if ever!

Although don't forget Im a newbee, what do I know!

If it hasn't been said yet....
Welcome to the boards. We're a fun group =)


And I Do agree with your statements. Really, the monorail has really become an attraction as opposed to REAL transportation. Sure it has the added value of being a mild form of transportation...but really....it is more of an e-ticket ride to most, just one that happens to be outside of the parks, and links 2 of them.

So...in the spirit of the above statement....lets make a TTA that connects all the resorts =)
Come on, it'd be fun.

 

[Edeyore]

I know that there are pros and cons to monorail expansion from both a cost and construction standpoint, but Disney did build the original monorail around the Seven Seas Lagoon and from the Magic Kingdom to Epcot. I would think that if they really wanted to an expansion from Epcot to Disney Studios would not be beyond belief or probability. I am not sure if the same expansion would be probable for Animal Kingdom.

 

[cloudboy]

Talking money, this might prove interesting to some people - it's a summary of how much it costs to build a highway. Elevated highways in LA cost about $20 million per mile, and that of course does not include any vehicles OR services! In New York they are spending $333 million a mile, the Big Dig was over a billion a mile! Then again, your average non-urban highway only averages about a million a mile. Still, it shows nothing is cheap!

http://www-pam.usc.edu/volume2/v2i1a3s2.html

 

[wdwishes2005]

And yet the big dig is already falling apart....

 

[FutureCEO]

monorails are actually more expensive in the intial building of it but when you look at the big picture of highways and costing to repiar them, monorials are actually a lot cheaper

 

[majortom1981]

IF its the cement

If its the cement thats the problem Then wouldnt it be the same price to do anything raised that is made of cement, like a raised train or anything like that?

 

[PhilharMagician]

Was a map ever generated for the routing and station locations of the monorail system at WDW? I am curious on how the tracks would get to the Studios from Epcot. Would it make stops at BWV on the way and YC/BC on the way back? Or would it just go from park to park?

On a AK route would it stop at BB and CSR or make a larger loop and hit CBR, All Stars, POP and even WWS complex?

If someone has a map of proposed monorial lines (probably Martin) please post.



(A note which may have already been posted) When signing DVC contract for SSR we had to sign a form allowing the possible future monorail expansion into the resort. I do not believe it will ever get there even though that would be awesome.