Monorail Accident

[fosse76]

I am shocked and saddened by this entire event. I'm not sure if this link has been posted about the negligent CM's at Denny's:

http://www.wftv.com/countybycounty/20000629/detail.html

I'm glad Disney suspended them...we'll see what the law decides to do with them. They could be in serious legal trouble! That one bad decision will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

I'm not sure I agree about suspending the manager who was off-property, unless he is required to stay on-property during work hours. I mean, if he was on his "lunch break" it's not as if he would have been able to prevent the accident. Of course, he could have been suspending for lack of oversight of employees, allowing them to walk away from the console or whatever, in which case he should be fired, as should the employees who weren't paying attention.

I feel really bad for the driver of monorail pink. It doesn't sound like it was their fault and I'm sure they feel overwhelmingly responsible. I would if I were them.

Actually, if you want to be literal, the accident was the fault of the Pink driver. While there were proximate causes that put him on the wrong beam through no fault of his own, the actual cause of the accident was his driving the monorail into the other monorail. That's just fact. Was he responsible for the accident, on the otherhand, is a completely different story, and depends on whether or not you believe he should have known he was on the wrong beam.

 

[TraceyC/FL]

I'm not sure I agree about suspending the manager who was off-property, unless he is required to stay on-property during work hours. I mean, if he was on his "lunch break" it's not as if he would have been able to prevent the accident. Of course, he could have been suspending for lack of oversight of employees, allowing them to walk away from the console or whatever, in which case he should be fired, as should the employees who weren't paying attention.

Actually, during an investigation i would expect all parties to be put on leave while it's sorted out (think cops and such). But if it was true that he WAS supposed to be doing more since someone had gone home sick - then he should have been there.

Suspension implies they know they screwed up, i would have expected the "administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation" if they were going to "pin" it on them.

Nit-picky in the terms.... but the terms imply different things in other places they are used.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

old controls used until 2007

new controls used since 2007

found these pics of the old controls and the new controls

Never seen them up close...Are they touchscreen?

 

[Bluewaves]

The saddest part of this is that it could have been prevented if they just put a camera in each end of the train and a 5" monitor above the drivers console so they could see whats going on , they could even make them have a night vision mode as well so when its pitch dark out the pilot could see any obstructions in front or behind them. 2 cameras, 2 monitors how much could that cost, 2 grand per train maybe 3 so for 40 grand all 12 trains get cameras and if you operate trains in reverse often as it seems is the case than its money well spent.

 

[board57796]

Never seen them up close...Are they touchscreen?

The newer (bottom picture) ones are touchscreen. All MkVI's have this control system installed.

 

[Figments Friend]

I was at the TTC today, and ANYONE who looks at the beam, knows EXACTLY where the impact was.. it is marked with scrubs, scratches, and the like.... Additionally, you can see tire marks on the top edge of the beam where the tire 'ground' into the concrete while pushing against monorail purple.....

The accident did NOT take place IN the station.. so what happened to get the train there so quickly? did they hav pink pull forward and it drug purple into the platform?

Poor austin, doesn't sound pleasent at all..

I have been a mess this week...this accident has really effected me on a deeper level then expected. The more info that comes in, the sadder i get...

 

[Figments Friend]

What I am being told now is that, in fact, the rear car of Purple will be replacing the rear car of Pink, to create a new train. Also, there are apparantely serious talks from Directors of retiring Monorail Purple as a color.

I think it would be best if they did just that ( retire the color) as one can only imagine how a pilot would probably feel driving it. Someone had mentioned this earlier in the thread as a suggestion, as they also felt it would be a train most pilots would not want to drive.

I have been wearing my Mono Purple pin since the incident, and have been talking to some folks about what happened. It is helping, as the unfolding story is really taking a emotional grip on me in ways i did not expect.

 

[Figments Friend]

At about 3am or so this morning, looks like they were either doing testing or some re-enactment (without the collision part) with two of the good monorails. Looked like one being green (possibly lime), the other red or orange (it was dark). This was taking place at the location of the crash.

Green was pulled up just about where purple would have been. And the other was making reverse runs from the switch to the station.

Chills.

Agree..a bit chilling to witness i am sure.

I bet Green's pilot was a little uneasy that night.

 

[Bluewaves]

Don't know how uneasy I would be, there was probably a few people up there with him, probably was one of the most experienced pilots there is too up there. Determining the site lines is one of the things the NTSB is really going to be interested in to see if Pinks driver could tell where he was, when he could have told where he was and so on, very important work.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm not entirely sure there would be a "recording of the radio transmissions". The letter to "the media" suggests that the FCC should release the recordings, I almost positive the FCC isn't allowed to record transmissions, to say nothing of the amount of storage that would be required to store recordings of all transmissions...

If there are recordings, the best bet of them coming to light is through an appendix in the NTSB final report.

Other than that, i don't see them coming out anytime soon.

As for the FCC and what is public record and who records what.... The FCC is a regulatory agency. They don't record anything. They just set the rules. Disney transmits on Nextels which isn't something you can listen in on with a scanner - Its a closed Push-to-Talk circuit - so if you were to listen in, it would be like listening in on a phone call (from the legal POV). And since its a private network, they don't have to do anything.

(The local ambulance service dispatches through Nextels and we are not happy about it and neither are PD or FD as none of us can listen in on what they're doing. But there's nothing we can do about it. And no, HIPPA law doesn't apply to dispatches.)

So you're best bet is to hope that Disney records their own radio transmissions. Clearly those would be key in this investigation. And the only way they will see the light of day is through the NTSB.

(And thats enough media law for one day)

 

[PhotoDave219]

Translation soon to be FIRED Duckberg :brick:

More than likely I see the Manager being offered up as a sacrifice to the Public Relations gods.

Its the way Disney works but moreover its their policies and procedures that are at fault, especially with the culture that says that hitting the E-Stops and Kill Packs are frowned on. It should be 180-degrees around on that attitude, especially from a company who's values are "Safety, Courtesy, Efficiency and then Show."

That just floors me that Coordinators and Managers (I'm referring to this post here) would frown on hitting the E-Stop or Kill Pack. We're talking about guest safety here.

 

[flynnibus]

Just think, the TTL hasn't had one accident at all since it opened.

TTL and the PeopleMover in DL have had issues - they just mainly stem from stupid guest tricks.

I seem to recall a rather serious accident on the TTL actually covered in one of David K's books.

 

[unkadug]

I think retiring the color should be the least that they do to honor Austin. Kinda like retiring a football jersey number.

There are plenty of other color names out there.

Heck if they wanted to keep a color that was close to purple they could do:

• amaranthine
• aubergine
• cyclamen
• fuchsia
• ianthine
• lavender
• lilac
• livid
• mauve
• modena
• orchid
• plum
• puce
• purpuraceous
• purpure
• purpurescent
• violet

 

[Monty]

If there are recordings, the best bet of them coming to light is through an appendix in the NTSB final report.

Other than that, i don't see them coming out anytime soon.

As for the FCC and what is public record and who records what.... The FCC is a regulatory agency. They don't record anything. They just set the rules. Disney transmits on Nextels which isn't something you can listen in on with a scanner - Its a closed Push-to-Talk circuit - so if you were to listen in, it would be like listening in on a phone call (from the legal POV). And since its a private network, they don't have to do anything.

(The local ambulance service dispatches through Nextels and we are not happy about it and neither are PD or FD as none of us can listen in on what they're doing. But there's nothing we can do about it. And no, HIPPA law doesn't apply to dispatches.)

So you're best bet is to hope that Disney records their own radio transmissions. Clearly those would be key in this investigation. And the only way they will see the light of day is through the NTSB.

(And thats enough media law for one day)

In fact, if Disney records transmissions, the various Pilots and folks working monorails would know - it's illegal to record someone's communications without a warrant unless one or both interlocutors are aware of the recording, depending on what jurisdiction the recording takes place in. So Disney would not legally have recordings either unless there were clear indications to staff that they would be doing so.

 

[flynnibus]

So Disney would not legally have recordings either unless there were clear indications to staff that they would be doing so.

You know those disclaimers played when you call any phone service these days? They basically say 'may'.. it's a CYA system. Telephone and Radio law is different too - so don't try to apply what you know about wiretapping and recording to radio.

And besides, this is not a public telecom system. This is Disney's private comms network. So just like a company has the right to save your emails you send through your company's mailservers - Disney has the right to record traffic on it's own network.

 

[Cannon3]

Board...just curious, how many Monorail Pilots are currently employed by WDW? I read where you said that the training and testing was intense. With that in mind, how hard is it to be a Pilot? What I mean is, do you have to be a CM in other departments before applying for Pilot? How many openings are there, say, annually? Are there physical requirements (weight, height, eye sight) that would limit the candidates? Sorry for so many questions.

 

[Fashionista007]

he could have been suspending for lack of oversight of employees, allowing them to walk away from the console or whatever, in which case he should be fired, as should the employees who weren't paying attention.

Agreed. Anyone involved in this who wasn't paying attention should at least be suspended if not fired. What was the CM in the monorail station doing at the time? Could he have stopped it?

Actually, if you want to be literal, the accident was the fault of the Pink driver. While there were proximate causes that put him on the wrong beam through no fault of his own, the actual cause of the accident was his driving the monorail into the other monorail. That's just fact. Was he responsible for the accident, on the otherhand, is a completely different story, and depends on whether or not you believe he should have known he was on the wrong beam.

I just don't think it's logical that the driver of pink wouldn't stop if he knew he was on the wrong track. Once he figured it out, he would have stopped.

 

[Fashionista007]

WESH is reporting THREE suspensions, including the driver of Pink.

http://www.wesh.com/news/20003663/detail.html

I'm guessing the other two were the CM's who went to Denny's. Isn't it interesting how it's pretty difficult to find real concrete information? Disney sure knows how to sweep something under the rug. :sohappy:

 

[unkadug]

In fact, if Disney records transmissions, the various Pilots and folks working monorails would know - it's illegal to record someone's communications without a warrant unless one or both interlocutors are aware of the recording, depending on what jurisdiction the recording takes place in. So Disney would not legally have recordings either unless there were clear indications to staff that they would be doing so.

I believe an employer has every right to record communications that pertain to their business. It's similar to an employer having the right (and often do monitor internet use) to read emails sent while you are at work. It's their dime.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Board...just curious, how many Monorail Pilots are currently employed by WDW? I read where you said that the training and testing was intense. With that in mind, how hard is it to be a Pilot? What I mean is, do you have to be a CM in other departments before applying for Pilot? How many openings are there, say, annually? Are there physical requirements (weight, height, eye sight) that would limit the candidates? Sorry for so many questions.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=3622813&postcount=1356

There's a lot of good information in this thread. Just skip back a few pages. :wave: