Monorail Accident

[MarkIV_railie]

Phonedave seems to sum up the problem. One Pilot says the word from control is as good as gold, and another says that these switching problems are relatively common. Obviously this puts the type of pressure on Pink that we all worry about: What to do when given the clearance, but personal observation should expose the problem? So I have 2 questions for clarification:

1. Is the clearance to back up sometimes wrong?
2. What training or procedures are in place for those times when the switching does not occur?

I suppose this then leads to a 3rd question:

3. Have close calls happened before?

Thanks for your enlightenment.

Yes, you do have two conflicting statements, but both can be true. Clearance from a lead or "Central" gives you the "right" to follow their instructions without risk of reprimand. But, IMHO, you always need to double check for yourself (mentally, visually, whatever). When driving your car and trying to make a left turn across traffic, do you TOTALLY trust the passenger to tell you when it is clear? Or do you hope they are right, but still look for yourself as you start moving to confirm you are safe?

Please do not take my comment about what I observed 25 years ago as meaning it was "common", just that it was possible, although it did occur multiple times. And dare I say, some of those times were

• probably when people who were not fully qualified to be a base lead were in charge or
• they were a temporary fill in and not fully briefed on train switching plans or
• visibility was near zero and we were in radio dispatch mode.

If I was ever given clearance that I did not trust, I called back to confirm a trains location or the orientation of a switch. The usual answer was usually an immediate "monorail XXX hold your 10-20!"

If I was in motion and saw something wrong (never happened), I would have immediately done what was necessary to keep my train and passengers safe, then got on the radio to notify somebody of the issue.

I have no idea what the current training level is or how prepared current drivers or leads are for the un-expected. I know that when I let my train roll "a little too far" after failing an afternoon MAPO test, the base lead needed new underwear

Interestingly, you could not really FAIL a MAPO test back then because the spec for the system was officialy an anti-colision system. so the only way to FAIL, was to make physical contact, which I never saw. Failing to get a MAPO stop during checks was just an "issue" not a "failure".

Have close calls happened before? I guess that depends upon your definition of "close calls". I honestly do not know the answer. Maybe a long term railie could give their opinion. Otherwise you would need some overrun statistics from HR or management to study annual trends. 38 years gives you a strong incentive to "if it aint broke, then do not fix it".

 

[GrumpyFan]

I saw that the rear hatches on Purple were open, including the cab and rear car, I believe it was from the Sunday noon local news helicopters. I do not know why and that added to the confusion of which way the trains were headed and which cab was the operating cab.... unless somebody had to make sure the train was empty after the crash.

I would assume that the rear hatches in purple were opened to assist in driving the two trains back to the barn, since the front was destroyed.

 

[MarkIV_railie]

Ever since I have been there, Monorails have generally been taken off the Epcot beam in Reverse (that is, they leave Concourse in forward and reverse through the switches) and then switch ends at Base. Poly, GF, or MK, depending on if/where other express trains are out. In the accidents case, the pilot was to Reverse all the way to MK and swap ends and do his radio check there, then be cleared in Forward to shop.

Back in my era, I believe we took EPCOT switches in either direction, since they were so smooth. The MK switches were always taken in forward so you knew when to start the 2-3 MPH speed.

I recall leaving EPCOT station many nights at shutdown, being cleared in reverse, through the teardrop, through the switches, onto exterior. Back then, you could run 30-40 MPH through the teardrop at night (empty) and hope you did not get caught.

The night of the accident, I assume that Pink was cleared forward (clockwise) as it was the fastest way to get Pink out of Purples way so the Purple could unload at Concourse, deadhead and switch ends.

 

[MarkIV_railie]

Final sign-off?

Back in my era, when long term people were quitting or leaving the department, they usually tried to think of something memorable to say when they signed off, especially if they were taking a train to shop.

Maybe somebody can make a radio call stating Austin is 10-7 when he is laid to rest Wednesday?

Is there any chatter of WDW retiring the color Purple for monorails in Austins memory? I assume somebody will fix Pink and Purple, but I could imagine it would be very painful for many to see Purple running again? Or would it be best to honor Austin by bringing Purple back in his honor?

 

[board57796]

Back in my era, I believe we took EPCOT switches in either direction, since they were so smooth. The MK switches were always taken in forward so you knew when to start the 2-3 MPH speed.

I recall leaving EPCOT station many nights at shutdown, being cleared in reverse, through the teardrop, through the switches, onto exterior. Back then, you could run 30-40 MPH through the teardrop at night (empty) and hope you did not get caught.

The night of the accident, I assume that Pink was cleared forward (clockwise) as it was the fastest way to get Pink out of Purples way so the Purple could unload at Concourse, deadhead and switch ends.

Nowadays we are able to go through the "hard" switches backwards. Central tells us to hold at 66, which means the rear of our train is at 62, which is right where the switches begin. Once Shop clears you to reverse into shop, you know that you need to go walking speed til you can see the switch pass under you. Does that make sense? I'm trying to explain it so non-Pilots can try to understand.

On the night of the accident, Pink left Concourse from its normal cab, cab 1, heading in the normal direction for the Epcot beam, clockwise, then was to reverse through the switches through Base. Only the switches were not aligned when they should have been. "Why?" is the question that is being investigated.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The night of the accident, I assume that Pink was cleared forward (clockwise) as it was the fastest way to get Pink out of Purples way so the Purple could unload at Concourse, deadhead and switch ends.

So would Monorail Purple have headed back the way it came so that the switch could be left open? Would it have picked up any more guests at Concourse to drop off at EPCOT Center?

 

[board57796]

So would Monorail Purple have headed back the way it came so that the switch could be left open? Would it have picked up any more guests at Concourse to drop off at EPCOT Center?

It all depends on many things, most importantly if Epcot was "clear" or not, meaning clear of Guests. If it was, then Purple had two options:

1) Power down at Concourse for the night
2) Deadhead, then ave the switch realigned so Purple could cross over it, then be reversed in a similar manner that Pink would have.

If Epcot wasn't cleared, Purple would probably have made a couple more laps, then done one of those two.

At that time of night, we do not take people TO Epcot, only back FROM Epcot

 

[MarkIV_railie]

Only the switches were not aligned when they should have been. "Why?" is the question that is being investigated.

Exactly. Hopefully the radio tapes of that night didn't get "Watergated" (erased, to you young folks) as I assume they will be MAJOR indicators as to what when wrong and why.

Can any current or recent railie educate me on what is in the Concourse Control Tower nowadays? I do not recall if 25 years ago it showed switch status. I think it just showed power to the various track sections.

 

[lazyboy97o]

At that time of night, we do not take people TO Epcot, only back FROM Epcot

Why would people be at EPCOT Center that late and how would a guest who parked there get back to his car?

 

[board57796]

Exactly. Hopefully the radio tapes of that night didn't get "Watergated" (erased, to you young folks) as I assume they will be MAJOR indicators as to what when wrong and why.

Can any current or recent railie educate me on what is in the Concourse Control Tower nowadays? I do not recall if 25 years ago it showed switch status. I think it just showed power to the various track sections.

A simple listen of the recordings will easily show who/what was at fault.

In the tower, it still shows which sections of track have power on a computer screen. This also shows if the switches are powered or not. So, while it doesn't necesarilly specify the switches position, anyone familiar with the system could glance at it and see if a switch was powered (aka aligned with the main beam) or unpowered.

 

[MarkIV_railie]

It all depends on many things, most importantly if Epcot was "clear" or not, meaning clear of Guests. If it was, then Purple had two options:

1) Power down at Concourse for the night
2) Deadhead, then ave the switch realigned so Purple could cross over it, then be reversed in a similar manner that Pink would have.

If Epcot wasn't cleared, Purple would probably have made a couple more laps, then done one of those two.

At that time of night, we do not take people TO Epcot, only back FROM Epcot

Back in my day, we never did #1 as all 10 trains fit in the shop.
But I recall a third option.. have Purple switch ends or go in reverse back to EPCOT in case one more passenger run from EPCOT might be needed. If a passenger run wasn't needed, then the train (Purple in this example) could have continued through the teardrop and then simply followed Pink all the way to shop. I think we did this when we were ready to close EPCOT beam but exterior beam was still running its last cycles.

I would have thought on July 4th you might still be taking MK visitors back to the cars parked at EPCOT, since MK was open later than EPCOT, but that is irrelevant to the accident.

 

[board57796]

Why would people be at EPCOT Center that late and how would a guest who parked there get back to his car?

It's amazing how long Guests stay in the park after closing....

Guests parked at EPCOT can take the Hollywood Studios bus, ask the driver for EPCOT, to retrieve their cars after we no longer accept outbound passengers.

 

[bingie]

Why would people be at EPCOT Center that late and how would a guest who parked there get back to his car?

During park clear some nights, we have guests there up to 3 hours after closing...

They are always at the Bistro

 

[Digger R US]

Quick question

Just a quick question for some of the rail guys here. In the video you can hear a loud alarm. Where is this alarm coming from? Is it in the TTC, or from Pink or Purple? Also, what does it indicate? Is it some type of MAPO or crash detection alarm? Just wondering. Thanks in adavance.

 

[board57796]

Just a quick question for some of the rail guys here. In the video you can hear a loud alarm. Where is this alarm coming from? Is it in the TTC, or from Pink or Purple? Also, what does it indicate? Is it some type of MAPO or crash detection alarm? Just wondering. Thanks in adavance.

To be honest, I have never in my stint in rails heard that alarm before, and that kind of scares me. I know its NOT from power being killed (much higher pitched) and its not a MAPO alert (they wouldnt be that loud, and sound much different.)

All I can think of is its maybe some sort of fire alarm someone pulled to attract emergency services to the site.

 

[MarkIV_railie]

Just a quick question for some of the rail guys here. In the video you can hear a loud alarm. Where is this alarm coming from? Is it in the TTC, or from Pink or Purple? Also, what does it indicate? Is it some type of MAPO or crash detection alarm? Just wondering. Thanks in adavance.

I noticed that sound in the video also. Not being familiar with the Mark VIs, I assumed it might be a mechanical noise, possibly an air conditioner compressor or blower or an air compressor for the brake system. Possibly a fan belt on a now wobbly pulley?

 

[Fievel]

I know I'm a bit off topic here, but I just want to say thank you to everybody in this thread. Things were very emotional the first 24 hours, but now cooler heads are prevailing and thinking of all the things about this tragedy that are very important.

 

[Figment4Ever]

Edit to add: That video really shakes me up, not just because the fact that someone has just died there. But because, that was my workplace. We always ran such a tight ship there. In that video, SO MANY things are happening that are totally foreign to us. Apart from the obvious, two trains smashed together, guests are scrambling out of doors opened under Emergency circumstances, loud sirens are blaring that, most likely, none of us have heard before; gates are flung open and Guests are crawling up on them. Monorails is, obviously, not supposed to be like that, and I hate seeing my coworkers (I know both people in that video) being thrust into such a foreign situation. I can't really explain it farther, other than it is deeply disturbing to me, as a Monorail CM, to watch and listen to.

The first time I watched the video, before I knew or understood someone had died, I was freaked out from hearing the alarm in the background - it's pretty much the creepiest sound ever. I don't know why that, in particular, set me off so much, but I had nightmares after hearing it and hope (for many reasons) to never hear it again.

 

[board57796]

As of now, no trains are to be driven in reverse, except to reposition if you missed your mark slightly while parking. This means that to take a train off the Epcot beam, the train will switch ends at EPCOT Station, drive counter-clockwise through the teardrop, back towards TTC (in the opposite direction of normal travel, but the pilot will be facing forwards) then through the switches. Obviously, this will take more time than the system that had been in place, as no trains may be between TTC and EPCOT as the train returns in the opposite direction.

No switches are to be done in reverse as of now. Don't know if it is permanent or not.

 

[indigo]

a note about positioning

Wanted to add a note about positioning.

Eyewitness reports (from the ground and the family in Purple) place Purple stopped at Pylon 385 just outside of the TTC Concourse. The collision hardly moved the two trains at all. In the time it took for the off duty paramedics who were guests located in the TTC esplanade to run up the ramp, Pink drove forward pulling both trains into the station and Pink's nose cone out the other site. This is approximately when the video starts. It is unclear if Pink was instructed to move the trains or just moved them on his/her own in reaction to the collision. I'd be interested to hear the radio calls here.

The video ends and shortly more security appears on scene. At some point it is decided to maneuver both trains over the TTC esplanade again to evacuate the driver from Pink who must be pretty inconsolable by now. General consensus is that this is when the photo that was initially shown on CNN was snapped. You can see a monorail cast member directing pedestrian traffic away from the TTC ramps in the lower right and a Disney World Security Officer with a day-glo vest on approaching in the back. So some time has passed here from the initial collision.

You can also see the doors to purple are closed in that photo. So it's a bit inconsistent with the end of the video where the passenger car doors have been pried open. If you look closely they have closed the doors as best they could before moving the trains.