Monorail Accident

[I_heart_Tigger]

I just heard the news and am terribly saddened for the family of the driver and his fellow cast members.

I have fond memories of riding in front of the monorail...even did an apprenticeship day with a monorail driver so I have special fondness and respect for the drivers. They are extremely well trained and take their job seriously. It's a dream job for many of them and to think someone was killed while pursuing this dream is very shocking.

I'm not going to speculate on what happened though I have some theories, I'll just wait until the investigation is complete and hopefully they will release their findings so we can all know, instead of having to piece together theories of our own.

I'll be at WDW in August and suspect we won't get to ride at the front of the monorail, which will upset my neice a bit since that's a favorite memory of our last trip. I completely understand though and probably won't even ask.

I just feel terrible for the other drivers who will have to continue their routes, putting on a brave face for the guests.

Does anyone think it would be a good or bad idea to take them a card when I visit in August? I would like them to know that there are people who can sympathize with their loss but don't wish to cause more grief for them.

 

[Hoop Raeb]

Oh and in the point to the eyewitness saying that the monorail was going faster than normal, is the monorail like a car that when it backs up it makes a different higher pitched sound than when going forward? Could that have contributed to the "faster than normal" conculsion? Just a thought.

 

[lightboy]

Mapo

Notes on MAPO...

Not that it matters too much into the speculation of this horrific event, but some clarification.

At Disney, especially if you work in attractions, you know that MANY things are named MAPO. MAPO is not a single system at all...it is an acronym for "Manufacturing and Production Organization". It is a division that was started in the 1960's to design and manufacture Disney specific products...including but not limited to ride systems, lighting systems, audio systems, mechanics, audio-animimatronics, etc etc etc. Virtually everything you find at Disney parks from the "old era" was designed and manufactured by this division.

This is now all handled by WDI. Important to note though, that due to the technological BOOM of the last 20 years, the amount of things above no longer have to be custom manufactured for Disney. Audio, lighting, and ride control systems are 10x more advanced now than anything proprietary that Disney made. Same with pneumatics, model making, plastics, and hydraulics. Basically...why reinvent the wheel?

Unrelated Example- MAPO used to build ALL of the park's lighting dimmer systems for rides, shows, and attractions. It worked well, as it used protocol that could "talk" to other MAPO manufactured components. Now, during overhauls, they install dimmers manufactured by ETC...that run INDUSTRY STANDARD protocols.

And yes, it bears significant resemblence to "Mary Poppins". Financial funding for this MAPO division came from the success of the movie.

MAPO isn't monorail specific. It's not a "system" at all. Again, it's the name of the organization that built the system. However, from my understanding, it is commonly used in monorails to refer to the safety system (as there are the "MAPO" indicator lights on the control panel that are directly interfaced with the system)...which is manufactured and designed by the old MAPO division.

 

[lightboy]

And besides my post just now...

Thoughts and prayers will be on this young cast member who lost his life. Horrible.

 

[BadTigger]

im not going to fight but i think there is more people employed by disney that can and would do the right thing then cant or wouldnt. dont cut people short. you would be surprised.

All I know IMO from what I saw in my 8 months there, frontline employees lacked basic disaster training, and in many cases most had no clue what to do. Here is a good story to show that, I'll be vague but there was a call that there might be an issue, an issue that was more then likely false but at the time being less then a year after 9/11 needed to be addressed. This occurred mid day. Non of the frontline staff had a clue what to do, even when told what to do they were still clueless. You would think that there would be training on different scenarios for each area. You could sit in a room and listen about first aid and blood-born pathogens for hours, and take pages of tests, but without real world training and practice when something occurs most people lock up and just fall back to the "its not my job" or "I'll go sweep now" mentality. It was sad when we had break downs, and a CP like myself who has been there months would be the first one grabbing a radio and getting managers to the area or engineers while life long CMs had no clue what they should do.

 

[mickey2008.1]

no disrespect to anyone here. i'm from the military and rumors didnt fly. thats all. it is very interesting to hear all the thoughts on this. alot of knowledge about the monorail. i am mamazed at how many people know about the systems, switches, brakes, and how it all works. One thought, could the lightning strike from a few weeks ago have something to do with this as it was on the epcot loop?

 

[dmagickingdom]

I don't know what your talking about back hatch, being open, but that could have happened once it was back in the station.

And being a former CP, I've witnessed some things, not to bash the entire group of CMs but a good majority just don't care, and I don't totally blame them. They are paid close to minimum wage, are expected to work long hours and have the bare minimum training. I worked in attractions, and even when the smallest non life threatening break down occurred CMs would lose thier minds. Most times instead of fixing a problem or doing something they would wait for a manager to tell them what to do. And most times managers are not as close to the areas as you would think. Bottom line between lack of disaster training and less the stellar work ethics, we should all be surprised bigger issues haven't happened.

Well, as a former CPCM u would agree that everyone that works at Disney does not have the ability to fix something. Everyone is trained to get a coordinator or manager for anything that goes wrong. Disney does not want a CM to make a decision to fix something. I am not saying that the CM would not be capable, however I wouldn't wanna be responsible for taking care of something if the company does not want me to.

Obviously however, if a train is approaching another one and impact could occur, anyone CP, 20yr, etc. would have the sense to make a reasonable reaction to prevent an accident.

 

[Dskipper]

All I know IMO from what I saw in my 8 months there, frontline employees lacked basic disaster training, and in many cases most had no clue what to do. Here is a good story to show that, I'll be vague but there was a call that there might be an issue, an issue that was more then likely false but at the time being less then a year after 9/11 needed to be addressed. This occurred mid day. Non of the frontline staff had a clue what to do, even when told what to do they were still clueless. You would think that there would be training on different scenarios for each area. You could sit in a room and listen about first aid and blood-born pathogens for hours, and take pages of tests, but without real world training and practice when something occurs most people lock up and just fall back to the "its not my job" or "I'll go sweep now" mentality. It was sad when we had break downs, and a CP like myself who has been there months would be the first one grabbing a radio and getting managers to the area or engineers while life long CMs had no clue what they should do.

you dont have to say what you are refering to but was it at epcott? i heard about something that happen there after 9/11 and the actions taken by the cms there about dumb founded me includeding the mgrs.

 

[BadTigger]

you dont have to say what you are refering to but was it at epcott? i heard about something that happen there after 9/11 and the actions taken by the cms there about dumb founded me includeding the mgrs.

It wasn't EPCOT, but it was all the park "icons". But yeah the only people that knew what to do was the small handful of security, and all we needed to was walk around the area with flashlights taking a look, and that was the hardest concept for CMs to understand.

 

[dmagickingdom]

All I know IMO from what I saw in my 8 months there, frontline employees lacked basic disaster training, and in many cases most had no clue what to do. Here is a good story to show that, I'll be vague but there was a call that there might be an issue, an issue that was more then likely false but at the time being less then a year after 9/11 needed to be addressed. This occurred mid day. Non of the frontline staff had a clue what to do, even when told what to do they were still clueless. You would think that there would be training on different scenarios for each area. You could sit in a room and listen about first aid and blood-born pathogens for hours, and take pages of tests, but without real world training and practice when something occurs most people lock up and just fall back to the "its not my job" or "I'll go sweep now" mentality. It was sad when we had break downs, and a CP like myself who has been there months would be the first one grabbing a radio and getting managers to the area or engineers while life long CMs had no clue what they should do.

I agree w/ Skipper. U seem to be cutting people down because they chose to live happy at peanuts per hour to work for the mouse. Quite honestly, my experience with CP's has led me to favor working with life long disney CM's. Most of the CP's I have ever worked with have one agenda. Where's the party at Chatham tonight? While I know all CP's are not like this, an overwhelming majority is. It is difficult to get a CP off of their cell phone texting, or to get their attention from another CP discussing how hungover they are (all of this in front of guests BTW).

Balancing the debate though, there are SOME outstanding CP's and just as many TERRIBLE "life longs". I would say however that it's a LONG SHOT to suggest that CP's consistently "take charge" while the "life longs" stand around without a clue. CP's are typically good at taking charge by snapping picts and sending texts. I can't tell u how many picts are on FB of the monorail accident RIGHT NOW, courtesy of CP's. They took them while they were "working" while the "life longs" were cutting Austin out of the cab.

 

[dmagickingdom]

I've read all 45 pages of this thread before taking the time to reply, and I know I don't write much...but just a couple of things to consider.

First and formost, clearly everyone here has sympathies for all involved so I'm not going to go into length on that.

Secondly, for everyone that is saying they feel so bad for the death of a CM and their family...Stop being some of the first to criticize his age. As a former CP and seasonal CM it's really infuriating (at least to me) that you're passing immediate judgment that it in any way was his fault, especially when for so long people have been pushing the notion that pink backed into purple (as was stated in the original post) The monorails are on rails and go forward and back, are you going to take away boats from anyone under the age of 25 too? Because Disney's going to have a hard time filling in the the transportation hours if CPs can't do it.

Lastly, this is a news and rumors board...so what's posted here is going to be exactly that, stop complaining because people are trying to put their heads together and come up with ideas of what might have happened. And if you have a question about what might have happened, try doing a search within the thread! or just read it so you can see what other people have asked...doing this we can have some good discussion about what might have happened and give it some good thought.

On a final side note regarding the video that's been banned: I can understand and respect why the moderators don't want it posted, that's fine. But I'm disappointed that only one person had the patience to realize that the person filming it was not necessarily the devil with a camera in a situation. IF I had been there with my parents as I so often am I assure you my mother would've been taping, and you would be seeing me jumping to see what I could do to assist...but there would be taping. Because my mom has Rheumatoid Arthritis and Lupus there is nothing else she would be able to do! But she could video tape in an effort to be able to assist Disney or the investigation. If something miraculous had happened there you bet everyone would want to see it and be happy for the survivors, because it turned bad we have concerns about people seeing it, that's fine. But again...stop with the judging, especially when you don't know the full situation, we can speculate...but don't judge.

p.s. Lee are you going to be able to expand on your latest developments or is it fair that the most recent speculation regarding the direction of the trains (pink into purple) seems supported and correct?

there's only like 5-6 cp's in MK watercraft at this time. Rails and Parking get the cp's in transportation.

 

[JWG]

Since the two theories include "pink backed into purple" and "purple had brake failure".

Of those, the most supported is the first.

Can we get past the 21 year-old operator now? In either scenario, likely nothing he could have done. And certainly nothing more than anyone else on the platform could have/should have if the first scenario is true.

As has been mentioned, ANYONE could have remote stopped if they'd noticed a problem.

I fly a short route frequently (50 minutes in the air) on commuter lines supporting a major carrier. Often those are new pilots. I feel just as safe as with the 62 year-old captain.

 

[Dskipper]

It wasn't EPCOT, but it was all the park "icons". But yeah the only people that knew what to do was the small handful of security, and all we needed to was walk around the area with flashlights taking a look, and that was the hardest concept for CMs to understand.

ok no not what i was thinking, there was a big issue at the front of epoct after 9/11. were they couldnt let people out of the park for safty and also made them close the parking lot to limit movement in the parking lot, but to keep guests calm and keep them from trying to leave they brought out mikey and friends but in the long run brought more people to the front of the park because everyone come to disney to see mickey. oh crap news just broke insaying there was a cm driving the monorail that shouldnt have been, ut ohh but they wolnt say till 10pm freaken news. im out going to foxs web site see if it on there.

 

[dmagickingdom]

ok no not what i was thinking, there was a big issue at the front of epoct after 9/11. were they couldnt let people out of the park for safty and also made them close the parking lot to limit movement in the parking lot, but to keep guests calm and keep them from trying to leave they brought out mikey and friends but in the long run brought more people to the front of the park because everyone come to disney to see mickey. oh crap news just broke insaying there was a cm driving the monorail that shouldnt have been, ut ohh but they wolnt say till 10pm freaken news. im out going to foxs web site see if it on there.

I can assure u that Austin was a Monorail pilot (unless he had his wings taken that day) cause he was driving on July 3. Are they suggesting that a second person was in there and got out?

 

[Dskipper]

so the news is saying that his friends they interviewed said he wasnt fully trained he was just thrown into the role. they are saying purple ran into pink. take it with a grain of salt its comeing from fox news, people that dont know anything but report theworst. but that is there big breaking news

 

[BadTigger]

so the news is saying that his friends they interviewed said he wasnt fully trained he was just thrown into the role. they are saying purple ran into pink. take it with a grain of salt its news people but that is there big breaking news

Yes purple did run into pink, and pink ran into purple, its all semantics.

 

[asianway]

Dont think its been mentioned yet, but at 5pm this afternoon, Monorail Coral was stopped returning from EPCOT at the EPCOT toll plaza, presumably since 2am. That driver must have been stuck there when the system stopped and had to be evac-ed. Kind of eerie seeing it sitting up there. Question is: do they usually keep 3 trains on the EPCOT beam that late?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes purple did run into pink, and pink ran into purple, its all semantics.

No its not. A lot of the reports seem to indicate that one of the monorails was stationary.

 

[EpcotFanForever]

Location

By comparing pictures and a view from LiveLocal maps, the views of the accident in the papers shows it happened right before the entrance to the station. The background is the bus loading area (the image is facing east), not the tram loading area, and just to the left of the photos is the ramp up to the Epcot monorail. Trams are to the far right - out of the picture.

See picture #3 here:

http://www.clickorlando.com/slideshow/news/19955999/detail.html

So there are two likely scenarios:

Purple was in the station, Pink backed into it, and pushed it out of the station.

or

Pink was either stopped, just entering the station, or just backing through the station when Purple ran into it.

Apologies for confusing the issue with some facts...

 

[kashmir]

Date

Anymore infomation on this said news?

If your signature contains a date for this tragedy, I believe that month should be 7 for July.

I'm glad people are able to give some insight and have seemed to vindicate the driver of the purple monorail (from intending to or carelessly driving recklessly to injure others.) Austin sounded like a great guy.