Monorail Accident

[hardcard]

Kevin Yee mentioned that Purple has had problems in the recent past:

not sure why everyone is starting to assume the dead was the driver of pink.. the cab that was swallowed was the purple one.. NOT pink.. based on the direction of travel on the epcot beam, the pink cab would have been empty on that end.

 

[janoimagine]

not sure why everyone is starting to assume the dead was the driver of pink.. the cab that was swallowed was the purple one.. NOT pink.. based on the direction of travel on the epcot beam, the pink cab would have been empty on that end.

Correct, and based off the photo's they were trying to get into the cab of monorail purple. I agree we should just wait and see what type of press statement they release after the investigation.

 

[figmentmom]

My heart goes out to the family of the young man killed. They have my very deepest sympathy.

 

[Dskipper]

just somthing i noticed from a pic the news sites have, showing monorail purple pilot door open, you can see the back of the pink mono rail all the way inside the pilot cabin. but also the back of the pink mono rail is in the air. if you follow the pink strip the back nose is almost touching the roof, only way that can happen is if purple hit pink. or they hit out side of the station and they used the back car of purple to control it to get it inside the station and it pushed pink up in the air in the movment of cars. but if i understand what lee is hinting at purple hit pink. if that iswhat happen as all the news stations are saying why the heck did they move them out of the station then back in the station. stuff just isnt adding up if purple hit pink because the failure of breaks. i know someone said i was wrong but i am 80% sure pink backed into purple. but long story short, how can news people report so many things and really know yet, i even seen one news station was using a disney fan site as facts as to what happen. only disney can bring news bad enough to report for a full day and not hear anything about mj.

 

[Gucci65]

First time logging in all weekend and I just wanted to add that the CM's family and friends are in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[Captain Chaos]

just somthing i noticed from a pic the news sites have, showing monorail purple pilot door open, you can see the back of the pink mono rail all the way inside the pilot cabin. but also the back of the pink mono rail is in the air. if you follow the pink strip the back nose is almost touching the roof, only way that can happen is if purple hit pink. or they hit out side of the station and they used the back car of purple to control it to get it inside the station and it pushed pink up in the air in the movment of cars. but if i understand what lee is hinting at purple hit pink. if that iswhat happen as all the news stations are saying why the heck did they move them out of the station then back in the station. stuff just isnt adding up if purple hit pink because the failure of breaks. i know someone said i was wrong but i am 80% sure pink backed into purple. but long story short, how can news people report so many things and really know yet, i even seen one news station was using a disney fan site as facts as to what happen. only disney can bring news bad enough to report for a full day and not hear anything about mj.

Cause they are the news... They don't need to report facts.. They report sensationalism.. Then, they report the facts..

 

[J.E.Smith]

Okay, I need to clarify that Yee made that post right as news came in, and was naming his first assumptions over Purple's previous problems as suggestions as to what happened.

 

[benji]

Sad news. Thank goodness I wasn't on that monorail. I was at Sea World yesterday for the 4th. Disney might need new monorail trains. They are a bit old.

 

[BadTigger]

just somthing i noticed from a pic the news sites have, showing monorail purple pilot door open, you can see the back of the pink mono rail all the way inside the pilot cabin. but also the back of the pink mono rail is in the air. if you follow the pink strip the back nose is almost touching the roof, only way that can happen is if purple hit pink. or they hit out side of the station and they used the back car of purple to control it to get it inside the station and it pushed pink up in the air in the movment of cars. but if i understand what lee is hinting at purple hit pink. if that iswhat happen as all the news stations are saying why the heck did they move them out of the station then back in the station. stuff just isnt adding up if purple hit pink because the failure of breaks. i know someone said i was wrong but i am 80% sure pink backed into purple. but long story short, how can news people report so many things and really know yet, i even seen one news station was using a disney fan site as facts as to what happen. only disney can bring news bad enough to report for a full day and not hear anything about mj.

What it seems happened, is Pink was backing up thinking it was a clear track, it plowed into purple more then likely pushing purple back out of the station. If I'm not mistaken these things are all wheel drive(all wheels on all cars go) so there is some major rpms there. Once it stopped out on the rail, Pink then moved forward pulling purple back into the station for evac.
I'm basing this off posts many pages back from former drivers and the pictures and video we've seen.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Deepest sympathy and prayers for the family and friends of the young monorail driver. It is a terrible tragedy regardless of the cause, although I hope that the investigations provide some insight in the hopes of making sure this doesnt occur again. Belle

 

[PhotoDave219]

So how about we wait for facts instead of arguing over theories?

Alrighty.

Pink was switching tracks - supposed to be anyhow - from Epcot to Express. Somehow it did not switch onto the express beam, backed through the station and ran into the stopped Purple train.

Pink would have been running in override mode, which maxes out at 15 mph in that mode (So I'm told).

I'm not reading this whole thread and ensuing arguments. If its been said/posted already, Oh well.

 

[wdwmagic]

"You could tell from the sound it was going faster than normal, then came the impact which sounded just like a terrible automobile accident," said Vinson, in an email. "I could see a passenger banging on the window....All of the bystanders kept yelling, 'Don't jump' and 'Stay in the train.' Then the train backed up toward the bay, tearing off more pieces that were protruding."

----

Going faster than normal? Could this lend credence to the idea that there was a braking failure?

First rule of accident investigation - most eye witness accounts are often largely inaccurate.

 

[fillerup]

So how about we wait for facts instead of arguing over theories?

This is the internet - since when did facts start mattering?

Enjoyed your discussion by the way of the engineering aspect as you see it.

 

[Monty]

I would consider myself the "average guest", but I would know if the monorail was moving faster than normal. I am there at least 3 times a week, and have gotten used to the tone of a monorail moving at a regular speed. I also know how fast they move compared to how fast I walk. If that guest was a local, they may be similarly informed.

The original quote was that by the sound of the crash the monorail was going faster than normal. Given there are not a large number of average guests who would have previous experience from other monorail crashes by which to compare.... One can safely presume that the guest who was quoted was either misquoted or was guessing based on the sound that was heard. There was no indication that the individual saw the crash.

 

[BadTigger]

The original quote was that by the sound of the crash the monorail was going faster than normal. Given there are not a large number of average guests who would have previous experience from other monorail crashes by which to compare.... One can safely presume that the guest who was quoted was either misquoted or was guessing based on the sound that was heard. There was no indication that the individual saw the crash.

You also forget these days MOST people over react to the smallest things.

 

[fireworkz]

First my thoughts go out to the pilot's family.

Second I want to thank Unkadug for posting that video from Mr. Eber. Very interesting theory, the most plausible I've heard so far considering all the safety systems in place, the time of night etc. If it turns out too be true then I can really see completely different procedures put in place for when and how switching beams is allowed, plus CMs being required to be in Monorail Central at all times during operations and if necessary improvements being made to monitoring.

 

[PhotoDave219]

First rule of accident investigation - most eye witness accounts are often largely inaccurate.

I wholeheartedly agree and that has been my experience at accident/crime scenes.

Long and the short of it, i have about 4 independent sources all reporting the same thing and I posted my information.

Believe it if you want. I'll stand by it until the NTSB proves me wrong.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Wow...wouldn't it be nice to get some good news for a change?

Anyhow...the message I got this morning was that the accident happened in the station, Pink backing into Purple. Not the Purple driver's fault. Not a computer glitch. Human error, but not on the part of the driver.
Can't verify for sure, but I got that early-ish this morning.

EDIT: Just scanned a few posts and saw this scenario mentioned, so just add my post to the list that heard that.

Thats what all my sources are saying except that it happened back at the hold point over the tram area over the TTC.

 

[Dskipper]

What it seems happened, is Pink was backing up thinking it was a clear track, it plowed into purple more then likely pushing purple back out of the station. If I'm not mistaken these things are all wheel drive(all wheels on all cars go) so there is some major rpms there. Once it stopped out on the rail, Pink then moved forward pulling purple back into the station for evac.
I'm basing this off posts many pages back from former drivers and the pictures and video we've seen.

that is what i have said at the beginning. but what gets to me is why the back pilot cars top hatch is open on purple, if they used it to get purple back into station and push pinkout, im thinking that had to add insult to injury. there is no other reason for it to be open. also if platform cms were watching what was going on around them why didnt they cut power, there is many safty procedures i know about that are the same across property that are the same, dont matter if you work at sm or small world if all else fails to keep something from happening the people at any station can cut power and stop motion right then and there. power down is disneys last fail safe almost every were. breaks dont work power down. e stop dontwork, powerdown. i might be wrong but one of the new safty rules property wide that was put into place in most places. is disney has a hand pack and one cast member must have it on him at all times in case motion of a ride or vehicle must be stoped. i know monorails has it, that is why a cast member dosnt have to be in tower all the time. also to clear something up a cm dose not drive the entire day of there shift there is a rotation they may take 3-4 trips at most then they go do greating, loading ect. so its not like one person drives for 12hours.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Why does Disney allow a 21-year-old to operate a monorail? The WDW bus drivers have to have a CDL, a physical exam, and many years of driving experience I assume. I assume the boat captains must also have many years of experience and proper training. The same goes for the train engineers.

Maybe because 21 year olds are capable:shrug:

You know what happens when you assume?

All you need to be a monorail or watercraft pilot is a automobile drivers license and pass your training.

Most of the monorail pilots I know are in the 18-22 year range. They are rigorously trained, and monorail pilot is the hardest certification to receive. If he got it, he was a fine pilot.

Exactly...especially at night. All of the super experienced (not necessarily better) people get day shift.

Age has nothing to do with this... it could have happened to a 42 year old monorail pilot too...

Yep. What folks aren't realizing is that there are new cast members of every age that start working for the company weekly. The older cast members actually sometimes have a harder time with the training (from my personal experience in watercraft)

So, you are ok with 21 year olds drinking, getting married... driving a beer truck, driving a tank in iraq... but not a monorail? Get a clue (not you Connundrum)

Driving a monorail is about the easiest, safest thing on that list. No offense to 'rail cast members. It's not rocket science.

I was 23 years old and in the college program when I became a boat captain for Walt Disney Watercraft Transportation at Magic Kingdom in 2007

Previous boat piloting experience...0

Trained, evaluated and operating a boat on the Seven Seas Lagoon by myself.....2 1/2 weeks.

Accidents at the conclusion of my internship 5 months later.......0

I'm really gonna shock some folks. I was barely 20 when I started. I deckhanded for a month, trained for a week, and drove perfectly from that point until the present. Even worse, I spent every off night at Pleasure Island having fun...oh the horror!

While your comment is true, it needs to be said that the 21 year olds of the WWII era, and today's 21 year olds are from two massively different molds.

Monorail Pilots have to be responsible, it they aren't, they won't be pilots for long. There is too much at stake.

I'm sorry you do, but that doesn't make it any less true. I think almost everyone would agree that people from that era and people from the current era are majorly different. Never did I say that people from this era were rendered incapable by age, just that by virtue of differences in society, all of the world is different these days as opposed to back then.

And I'd argue that we live in a much more complex world that demands more of our young people. People tend to lose sight of this. Every generation has its screw ups...it's human nature.

The age argument is weak. Without college age cast members, Disney doesn't have a work force.