Monarail Extension to all WDW Parks????

[monorail_man]

Do the Monorails have the equivalent of a "Dead Man's Handle"?

Whats that?

 

[ogryn]

On the London Underground (and other's I'm sure), the driver needs either constant contact on a level/peddle, or the accelerater needs to be kept pushed forwards constantly to keep the train moving (it would spring back otherwise).

This is incase the driver dies whilst driving, so the train would come to a stop. Although, this isn't foolproof though, as previously a driver had a heart-attack and slumped forwards onto the deadmans handle, preventing it from falling back to off. The train hurtled through all the stations and hit a brick wall at the end of the line. One of the worst train accidents in LU's history.

 

[monorail_man]

On the London Underground (and other's I'm sure), the driver needs either constant contact on a level/peddle, or the accelerater needs to be kept pushed forwards constantly to keep the train moving (it would spring back otherwise).

This is incase the driver dies whilst driving, so the train would come to a stop. Although, this isn't foolproof though, as previously a driver had a heart-attack and slumped forwards onto the deadmans handle, preventing it from falling back to off. The train hurtled through all the stations and hit a brick wall at the end of the line. One of the worst train accidents in LU's history.

Ok. I know that is not ment to be a funny story. but I an just picture Goofy driving the monorail and like falling asleep and faling over onto the handle and that happening. :lol:

I don't know if the monorails at WDW have that. from the looks of the controls. it looks like the driver just slides the handle back and forth.


Here are the OLD controls. Like Tyler said. They are upgrading them. Yellow already has them. I'm sure he could tell you more about the upgrade. I haven't hear much about it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/4thgenaccord/Disney/Monorail/monorailcontrols.jpg

 

[imagineer boy]

**EDIT**

I had a big long responce typed up but I think I will sum it all up in one word...



WHATEVER! :brick:

You are walking on thin ice. This is your last warning.

 

[monorail_man]

You are walking on thin ice. This is your last warning.

Um... HELLO have you not read this thread?????


Thats OLD news. :hammer: It was done and over with and you had to bring it up again. Why?

Anyways, Back to the topic.

Anyone know about the tow vehicle thing?

 

[lilphil6487]

monorail expansion has been a major topic forever. not just here but almost every unofficial disney site. i have always thought it would be an awesome idea. my favorite is a monorail from the airport to the transportation and ticket center. unfortunately, it probably wont happen, at least not in our lifetime. oh and for the bus service, im sorry that i have to disagree w/ people that think it is good. this past summer, me and my cousin went to the e ticket ride night at mk, and when we got to the waiting area for pop century, we must have literally waited an hour b4 our bus came. other times at other parks we had waited anywhere from a half hour to 40 minutes. i dont mean to be mean or offensive, but i think the bus service is terrible. other than that, disney world is the greatest place on earth. i would pick it over any vacation, even a cruise to the carribean( ive been on disney and carnival so i know)

 

[Tom]

Additionally, there is a moving blocklight system, otherwise known as the MAPO system. This is the anti-collision system. It's a rather ingeniously simple system.

Regular commercal and passenger train lines use a similar system, and have for YEARS. ALL railroad tracks in the country are broken up into "blocks" - and each block is goverened by, basically, a traffic light for trains. There are sensors tied to the rails, and if it detects a train in two blocks ahead of your train, they see a Yellow/Amber light (or equivalent arm position on a semaphore signal). If there is a train in the next block, you get a Red signal - but green anytime else. The WDRR also has this system - and you can see these signals on the sides of the tracks - without the amber, I believe. It's either GO or STOP HERE, since the track is so short, there isn't room to warn them two blocks ahead.

Aparently, since the monorails are computer-based, their MAPO system can do this "signalling" from within the cab, rather than have big traffic signals along the beam. I'm trying to figure out the whole "blocked frequency" system, but perhaps that was just a layman's way of describing it to Tyler. I predict there is a computer that is checking occupancy of each block of track, somehow, and reporting to each respective monorail - but I could be wrong.

 

[monorail_man]

Aparently, since the monorails are computer-based, their MAPO system can do this "signalling" from within the cab, rather than have big traffic signals along the beam.

Yes. If you look at the top of the control panel in the pic link I posted you will see the MAPO lights.


I would liek to see pics of the new control panel. Maybe when I go on my trip I'll ge tlucky and get to ride inteh cab of Yellow.

 

[Disneyland1970]

Don't forget that people pay to use the monorail in Vegas, I doubt guest would do the same at disney, the only other solution is to raise rates at the resort to cover some of the costs. None of those would probably float with guests. I wouldn't want to pay 2 or 3 dollars extra a day to ride a monorail when I can get free transportation (Direct transportation) to the parks.

I would pay $10 extra for a weeks worth of Monorail use, if it went to other areas of the property. The busses do work, but not as well or as frequent as they should. The new busses are designed for standing not sitting, and with my luck it is standing,always. The 2 or 3 dollars a day extra would be very cost effective in my opinion, if it allowed me to use the park hopper feature of my tickets more effectively! Just park my car and ride the monorail everywhere, or to a different TTC which could then offer tram service instead of busses

Why is the cost of the beam so expensive?? I know it is more than a chunk of concrete, but it is not a technical marvel either?? I work in the aircraft industry, and look at over priced parts all day long, $300 dollar bolts, that you can buy at home depot for $6, are very common in aircraft, I still have a problem with the Tens of Millions per mile.. Is it prepping the land? Disney property is only 49 square miles, much of that is already covered by resort areas, so how much more track would really be needed. I know I am simplifying this, but we are not talking hundreds of miles here.

With the amount of visitors to the park, I feel that monorail expansion would be cost effective over a few years, it is just not on the Disney "TO DO" list. I also wonder why Disney would not receive money from the government to accomplish this. With the push towards GREEN transportation, you would think that an electrically powered transportation service would be much more earth friendly than a fleet of diesel busses. I know some sort of fossil fuel is most likely used to produce the electricity, but the EPA more closely regulates the power plants, than a fleet of (old) diesel busses. Plus with the cost of diesel fuel on the rise,the cost of electricity has to be getting cheaper per hour for operating costs.

I know there are electric busses in large cities, and maybe this is the way to go, but what would the cost be of a fleet of new busses, plus the cost of electricity for hundreds of busses, and the maintenance costs?

This would be a moot subject if WDW were in California. Granted the smog in LA is MUCH worse than Orlando, this is one of the hurdles in bringing the Subs back to DL. The Subs are diesel powered and the State of California is worried about the smog credits this would use. They are worried about 6 or 8 subs, now flash back to the hundreds of busses that are moving on WDW property on any given day! Maybe Disney needs to play the GREEN card to help make this happen? Look to the future of Florida, I'm sure the area will keep growing, maybe Disney should look at this now, before they are forced to in the next decade or so. Look to the future and be on the cutting edge again!

My thoughts anyway!

 

[marni1971]

The beams arn`t regular concrete. They are a concrete shell with a propiertry (spl?)honeycomb centre for light weight and strength. I`d imagine the cost also covers the supports, and their foundations too - and in the swamps and soft earth of WDW these can be quite a problem.

 

[bsandersjr]

That would take some work, but how cool would that be?!?!?!?

 

[Thrawn]

I would pay $10 extra for a weeks worth of Monorail use, if it went to other areas of the property. The busses do work, but not as well or as frequent as they should. The new busses are designed for standing not sitting, and with my luck it is standing,always. The 2 or 3 dollars a day extra would be very cost effective in my opinion, if it allowed me to use the park hopper feature of my tickets more effectively! Just park my car and ride the monorail everywhere, or to a different TTC which could then offer tram service instead of busses

Rest of your argument went out the window in the first paragraph. Monorails would be LESS frequent than busses. There are only a certain number of monorails you can put on at once, whereas if a bus is filled or has a problem, they send another one. What if a monorail breaks down in front of MK and its the only way to get there? You're talking a half hour delay at least, just to get to the park. Then imagine the backup of people. Monorails only is NOT a good idea. At all.

 

[Sloppy Skunk]

This thread has become ridiculous. There are tons of reasons why the monorail is not practical. but thats not the point. Many WDW fans would love to see more of the monorails. I know I would, and since a thread like this one pops every so often, it is apparent that other people would too. let dreamers dream! If you get worked up and aggravated by people bringing up this topic, do not enter the thread. Many people complained about their time being wasted with these threads. in my opinion, it is incredibly easy not to post in a thread, and even easier not to read it at all. the user that started this thread was just thinking about how great it would be, that's all there is to it. considering how much everyone on this board hates Eisner, I feel that many people take a very Eisner-esque approach to other people's visions of WDW's future. relax. WDW is awesome, fun, and magical. dont get worked up over it. sorry for the rant... enjoy yourselves!

 

[cloudboy]

Why is the cost of the beam so expensive?? I know it is more than a chunk of concrete, but it is not a technical marvel either??

I think this is where many people get so confused and are led to believe that Monorails are so expensive.

Essentially, the cost is usually broken down into two or three parts. One is the fixed parts of the system - this would include things such as the track itself, switches, power along the track, stations, maintenance facilities, land prep, foundatios/footing and construction costs. The second would be the system, which includes the vehicles and the automation systems - operational stuff. You then have the costs of financing and project management - this is the cost of issuing bonds, insurance, etc. Lastly, and what is usually not figured into a project comparrison cost (because it is so site dependant) is the cost of the land.
Compared to busses, or a BRT system, the fixed costs would include things such as the road, maintenance garages, bus stops, and in an cantenary system the overhead wires. System costs would include the busses themselves

The beam itself is not overly expensive. What really adds to the costs are the stations. Switches are more costly, but it depends on what types you use - it is a tradeoff. Construction costs could be high or low, depending upon the exact route. While Florid is a bunch of swampland, so long as the elevation of the beam is kept within reason it is not much more complicated than other structures.

When it comes to cusses, people often forget about the costs of roads and facilities. Many people say that it's already there, and in fact yes it is not the same upfront costs. But all that means is that you have then shifted the costs of the rod into another project. Plus roads require extensive upkeep, take up copious amounts of land (flat and wide) are fairly complex to construct (think about all the clearing, filling in of holes, putitng down a base, bridges, curbs, etc.) They also require alot of work to deal with runoff and environmental impacts. And you still need maintenance facilities for the busses.

For comparrison, the Las Vegas project cost approx. $650 million. $300 million of that went into finance costs - the bonds, insurance, contingencies, etc. This is very high, but in the long run meant the project could be done without any taxes. About $200 million went into the System- the monorail vehicles and the automated controls (LAs Vegas is a driverless sytem). The remaining $150 million went into the beamway itself, stations, maintenance facilities, and construction costs.

 

[monorail_man]

For comparrison, the Las Vegas project cost approx. $650 million. $300 million of that went into finance costs - the bonds, insurance, contingencies, etc. This is very high, but in the long run meant the project could be done without any taxes. About $200 million went into the System- the monorail vehicles and the automated controls (LAs Vegas is a driverless sytem). The remaining $150 million went into the beamway itself, stations, maintenance facilities, and construction costs.

You are comparing apples and oranges here. Yes the Vegas monorail is simaluar to the WDW monorail. But as far as cost. Things are very different.

First of all, the WDW system was put into place in the late 70's and eairly 80's when the cost of everything was lower. The Vagus monorail was done later in the 90's

Beam way $1 Million Dollars Per Mile (1982) I am sure that is ALOT more now.

Train $7 Million Dollars Each and that was thre old Mark IV trains. The new Mark VI trains plus their new upgrades they are getting cost ALOT more.



Like it was said above, this topic has and will be going around for years. But the simple fact will still remain. WDW will never expand the layout to the other parks. It just does not make finnacial sense.

This thread kinda got off the original topic of the expansion and tunred into a monorail technical thread.

I guess thoes questions need to be directed to the monorail technical thread.

 

[cloudboy]

Where is this beamway costing 1 million per mile coming from? Please tell. These are all things that are very directly affecting the viability of expanding the monorail. PS - they use the same exact beams. All the fixed parts are teh same. The difference is in the systems - Vegas's monorails are automated, WDW's are not.

 

[no2apprentice]

It cost Disney $1,000,000 per mile in 1982.

Here's info on what Las Vegas had to pay. How does $87,000,000 a mile sound?
http://www.austinmonorail.org/monorail_costs.htm

And just for grins and giggles, let's cruch some numbers.

Forget AKL. Forget the Epcot resorts. Let's say Disney does a major monorail expansion to connect the value and moderate resorts to a new terminal at Epcot. And, let's say the cost is about $800 million.

To cover the cost, Disney raises the rates at the value and moderates $10 a room. And, just to be fair, Disney sells out every single room each day. All 15,767 rooms/units. That's additional $157,670 a day for the expansion. Or, $57,549,550 a year. Even at that amount, if the value and moderates sold out every day, it would take almost 14 years to recover the cost of the expansion.

And, realistically, since the values and moderates don't sell out every day, it would probably be closer to 20-25 years before the cost is recovered.

All for a system of transportation that does not work well for the type of crowd flow that occurs at Disney.

 

[Invero]

Very interesting. Now the thing about being withing 2 out of 3 points to get the doors to open. how far apart are thease points? in other words, doe sthe driver have to be exactly on a mark or is ther elike a foot or so area he has to hit?

I'm not sure of the exact leeway, but I beleive it's around 3-6 inches. A skilled driver can hit the mark perfectly without putting too much effort. Well, unless Lime's brakes are sliding again I got to the point where if I was driving a good train, I could overspeed into the station (oops) and apply the brakes and stop perfectly. I loved that because it just looked SO cool. Well, until the brakes slid, and I'd overshoot and have to back up. LOL

BTW the reason I asked about the knowing where each train is. I thought I rembered seeing or reading about a "HQ" type room that keeps track of all the trains and there being like a light up switch board showing where each train is.

That's actually a power grid.

Ok and another question. ( I know I have alot now. been brain storming)

These kinds of questions are the good kind. Of course, they might be better suited for the general monorail thread that you started. (But that's just my personal desire to let all expansion threads die away... lol)

on the rare cases when train needs to be towed. How do they get the tow vehicle to the train? do they have to clear allthe other trains from the track, ect.? For example. lets ay RED and BLack are on the Express beam. and black is at TTC and red is coming in behind it. THen Red breaks down (which seems to be common). Do they tow Red backwards to the shop. or what?

Rare case? HA! lol They have to cycle the trains around so that the tow tractor can somehow get onto the beam, and to the train. Sometimes this can be challenging, and in all cases, it takes a good amount of time.

For your example, of Black at TTC, Red holding at 145, and we'll say Silver at the MK... they would most likely cycle Silver in reverse to hold in the Contemporary, and then go at Red from Cab 6. If there were four trains, then they'd cycle Silver to 125, Lime to 108, Black to MK, and have the tractor go at it from the front.

 

[Invero]

Do the Monorails have the equivalent of a "Dead Man's Handle"?

Yes... The old Mark IV's had a button on the T-bar that had to be pressed and held down. On the Mark VI's, the "T-Bar" was replaced with the MCU, Master Controller Unit. The thumb button on the MCU is for the radio... to engage the deadman, you twist the handle.

 

[Invero]

Here are the OLD controls. Like Tyler said. They are upgrading them. Yellow already has them. I'm sure he could tell you more about the upgrade. I haven't hear much about it.

Somewhere on one of these threads, I've posted pictures of Yellow's new console. If you do a search, you can find them.