MK to get SIX new FP attractions? UGH?!?!

[CndleontheWater]

The reality is we don't really KNOW what the impact will be, because we don't actually know all of the details. I understand why everyone is getting upset, but until we have facts, it just comes off as paranoia.

The thing is though, that we do know a lot about FP+, enough to have some understanding of its impacts-

Let me break it down-

We know that Disney is not increasing capacity, we also know that Disney is going to be pushing FP use, encouraging people that may not have understood or cared to use FP in the past to utilize the system. They are attempting to level the playing field, so to speak. We also know that the number of FP attractions are going to be increased, and will include attractions like Haunted mansion, that rarely have long wait times.

So the thing is, as a Disney fan you WANT people to be standing in line an hour+ for Thunder Mt. You want those newbies not to understand or care about FP because by standing in line for more than an hour you keep them occupied, out of the main parts of the park, and most importantly, out of line for the attractions that you are riding.

While they are occupied standing there, you are breezing through the HM standby line with a FP for thunder in your pocket.

Now we know that with more people utilizing FP that they will NOT be stuck standing in the Thunder Mt line for 90 minutes- so where will they be? They will be in line in front of you at the HM, making your wait longer.

The problem lies in that first part I mentioned- no increased capacity- the guests have to go somewhere. If they are not standing in long standby lines, they will be standing in multiple lines. The net effect of this is that one line's wait time gets shorter, but because there is no increased capacity, other lines will have to get longer. It is a give an take.

This is simple mathematics and it is based on what we ACTUALLY KNOW about FP+.

 

[menamechris]

The problem lies in that first part I mentioned- no increased capacity- the guests have to go somewhere. If they are not standing in long standby lines, they will be standing in multiple lines. The net effect of this is that one line's wait time gets shorter, but because there is no increased capacity, other lines will have to get longer. It is a give an take.

This is simple mathematics and it is based on what we ACTUALLY KNOW about FP+.

Very true. I think the sharp-pencil boys at Disney finally came to the conclusion that FastPass itself, to every guest, did not increase spending in the shops and restaurants. So how do they remedy that? They are beginning to tier FastPass - with the assumption that those willing to PAY (in one way or another) for the better, faster FP will already have more money to spend in the parks - and them having that higher-tiered FP will get them out of attraction lines quicker to go spend that money. Those who are nickeling and diming on their vacation - Well, Disney is fine letting you wait an extra 30 minutes in line, since you won't be spending much money elsewhere anyways.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Very true. I think the sharp-pencil boys at Disney finally came to the conclusion that FastPass itself, to every guest, did not increase spending in the shops and restaurants. So how do they remedy that? They are beginning to tier FastPass - with the assumption that those willing to PAY (in one way or another) for the better, faster FP will already have more money to spend in the parks - and them having that higher-tiered FP will get them out of attraction lines quicker to go spend that money. Those who are nickeling and diming on their vacation - Well, Disney is fine letting you wait an extra 30 minutes in line, since you won't be spending much money elsewhere anyways.

Fastpass didn't increase spending in the shops... I know this is crazy but how about having better merchandise options? That might increase spending.

 

[Tom]

Fastpass didn't increase spending in the shops... I know this is crazy but how about having better merchandise options? That might increase spending.

Or charging reasonable prices for the merchandise. It's simple economics. If you want to sell more of a product, lower the price until you find the sweet spot where enough more people buy it that the mark-up you still have on it results in a net increase to the bottom line.

I'd like to get some button-up shirts, but when I see them with $50-70 price tags, I just laugh out loud.

 

[menamechris]

Like you, I've spotted a few shirts from time-to-time that I've wanted to purchase. One look at the price and I walk away wondering who is paying these prices.

Only the people whose currency back home is stronger than the dollar....

 

[maxairmike]

Only the people whose currency back home is stronger than the dollar....

Or those who take advantage of large discounts that friends get.

 

[WDW1974]

Or those who take advantage of large discounts that friends get.

I love those friends and their discounts ... I love it even more when they make sure I won't have to pay to visit DLR next month!

 

[Fractal514]

Ya know, I think I figured out why I'm on the other side of the fence on this one. I go in September and January, the lines are hardly ever bad for me. Honestly, my biggest problem with FP was that more people didn't know how to use it, and maybe I'm crazy, but I'm glad folks will get to know about it now. I totally understand what you are saying, for us Disney Fanatics who go down every year and who analyze the best way to tour the park, we're gonna suffer a bit from this. But I guess I'm just a believer in greatest good being served, and I genuinely do think that this will be a good thing for many more people than it will hurt. I guess the proof will be in the numbers, and then we can all debate those.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Ok, I'm so confused now... The Disney Dining Plan was intended to... do what again? Oh yes, give guests more control over their dining experience. FP+ is intended to give guests more control over their vacation, right? Meaning more time riding attractions, less time in queues, etc. But FastPass was intended to get people out of line and spending money on (generic, bland, mostly unimaginative) merchandise and food (spontaneity!!). And the NextGen interactive queues (don't forget Space Mountain!) mean more people tend to stay in the queues instead of riding the attraction (sort of spontaneous). So which is it, TDO - spontaneity or planned-down-to-the-last-detail?

From my seat, this all started as a result of how the DDP has seemingly-forever altered the guest dining experience. DDP "worked" so well that the TDO suits decided to synergize the FP system with it, thereby creating a false sense of "value" for WDW's core audience - the first timer. And wasn't it ME that initially said something in the late 90's about Disney's goal was "to fool the guest into thinking they are having a good time"? I can't remember the exact quote or context, so it could be completely irrelevant, but I think FP+ takes that sort of thinking to the next level - Fooling guests into thinking they are getting some great deal for the money they are spending by pre-planning their entire vacation. How well is that going to work with John, Jane, Joe, and Jenny Public? Despite TDO's best efforts to the contrary, kids aren't just going to gleefully go along with a pre-planned attraction and eating schedule.

(Family enters MK at 9am)
"Mom and Dad! I want to see Ariel first."
"Sorry, Jane, we don't have a FP to see her."
"Well then I want to ride Splash Mountain!"
"Umm... we only have a FP for Space Mountain at 4pm, isn't that pretty much the same thing? They were all grouped together when we picked our rides 6 months ago."

(Please forgive me, Walt...) I only hope we never lose sight of one thing, that it was all started by the Disney Dining Plan.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Ok, I'm so confused now... The Disney Dining Plan was intended to... do what again? Oh yes, give guests more control over their dining experience. FP+ is intended to give guests more control over their vacation, right? Meaning more time riding attractions, less time in queues, etc. But FastPass was intended to get people out of line and spending money on (generic, bland, mostly unimaginative) merchandise and food (spontaneity!!). And the NextGen interactive queues (don't forget Space Mountain!) mean more people tend to stay in the queues instead of riding the attraction (sort of spontaneous). So which is it, TDO - spontaneity or planned-down-to-the-last-detail?

From my seat, this all started as a result of how the DDP has seemingly-forever altered the guest dining experience. DDP "worked" so well that the TDO suits decided to synergize the FP system with it, thereby creating a false sense of "value" for WDW's core audience - the first timer. And wasn't it ME that initially said something in the late 90's about Disney's goal was "to fool the guest into thinking they are having a good time"? I can't remember the exact quote or context, so it could be completely irrelevant, but I think FP+ takes that sort of thinking to the next level - Fooling guests into thinking they are getting some great deal for the money they are spending by pre-planning their entire vacation. How well is that going to work with John, Jane, Joe, and Jenny Public? Despite TDO's best efforts to the contrary, kids aren't just going to gleefully go along with a pre-planned attraction and eating schedule.

(Family enters MK at 9am)
"Mom and Dad! I want to see Ariel first."
"Sorry, Jane, we don't have a FP to see her."
"Well then I want to ride Splash Mountain!"
"Umm... we only have a FP for Space Mountain at 4pm, isn't that pretty much the same thing? They were all grouped together when we picked our rides 6 months ago."

(Please forgive me, Walt...) I only hope we never lose sight of one thing, that it was all started by the Disney Dining Plan.

This is pretty well put. Especially when you see TDO now realizing that many of the changes that are clearly aimed at first timers are now going to be drawing from a well of first time visitors that is drying up. More importantly, if you're targeting first timers you need to simplify the offering. Nothing convinces me that Fastpass+ simplifies their trip. It might sound good on the phone, but I guarantee that once that first timer gets in the park they're going to be pulling their hair out.

 

[John]

Seriously......a billion dollars? We all have kept tabs on this Next Gen stuff and the closest anyone has come to truly understanding/explaining it has really just resulted in more questions and frustration. New queues have been installed, testing has started..... assumptions have been prevelant and where is TDO on this? Any attraction or any other addition with a hefty price tag of 500 BILLION dollars would have been trumpted across the globe. WHy hasnt Disney simply came out and announced/explain this new feature? Its going to happen. 500 big ones tell me so. So why not roll it out? Give the minions time to digest it.....or could this be another we'll see how it goes and make adjustments on the fly?

Is there a master plan to what is going on at WDW? At this point Nex Gen is no longer conjecture....its happening. Are they going to wait till the next round of price hikes ? ( so you think you are actually getting something for the $100 a day pass ?) I dont expect to know what the master plan is but it would be nice to know exactly what we will need to know about the new FP system before it actually is incorporated. I remember the dining plan when it started....very few people understood it or even knew about it.

So I guess in conclusion it is par for the course when it comes to new addtions at WDW.

 

[flynnibus]

Next Gen is never something that will be advertised to guests as a 'product' - its a development initiative. All the things it enables will be advertised as the products they are. Such as FP +, the mobile apps, the wifi, the attraction enhancements, the backend systems, etc.

NextGen is not the 'next attraction to be announced..' - its those 'infrastructure' upgrades Disney tells it's investors about and will promote the products that it enables when they become available.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Next Gen is a great idea. Just ask this scientician.

"Uhh-"

 

[John]

Next Gen is never something that will be advertised to guests as a 'product' - its a development initiative. All the things it enables will be advertised as the products they are. Such as FP +, the mobile apps, the wifi, the attraction enhancements, the backend systems, etc.

NextGen is not the 'next attraction to be announced..' - its those 'infrastructure' upgrades Disney tells it's investors about and will promote the products that it enables when they become available.

As I do agree with your premise, I just dont get why it wouldnt be benificial for them not to explain it. Why invest that kind of coin if the masses really dont know how to use it....what is the point? Oh thats right.....doesnt really need a point......never mind.....thanks for the clarifcation.....LOL A development initiative with that kind of price tag? I am no buisness major....I dont have an MBA but what I do know is that Disney is a buisness, they intend to make a profit on this baby.....so lets just say they want to double their money ( which in todays buisness world isnt unrealistic) that would be a TRILLION dollars.....no wonder Mr Lasseter is doing the happy dance!

 

[flynnibus]

Initiative leads to products..

Products is what you market and promote

Disney will market the next level of theme park experience and point to the hooks and products they have created to quantify that.

 

[COProgressFan]

This is pretty well put. Especially when you see TDO now realizing that many of the changes that are clearly aimed at first timers are now going to be drawing from a well of first time visitors that is drying up. More importantly, if you're targeting first timers you need to simplify the offering. Nothing convinces me that Fastpass+ simplifies their trip. It might sound good on the phone, but I guarantee that once that first timer gets in the park they're going to be pulling their hair out.

I agree. Honestly, for a first time visitor the concept of planning visits to attractions they don't even know about months in advance would be completely overwhelming. Between Nextgen, booking dining 6 months out, the convoluted MYW ticketing, even regular Fastpass etc,. Disney seems to go out of their way to make things an overwhelming mess for anyone not familiar with the parks.

 

[RSoxNo1]

As I do agree with your premise, I just dont get why it wouldnt be benificial for them not to explain it. Why invest that kind of coin if the masses really dont know how to use it....what is the point? Oh thats right.....doesnt really need a point......never mind.....thanks for the clarifcation.....LOL A development initiative with that kind of price tag? I am no buisness major....I dont have an MBA but what I do know is that Disney is a buisness, they intend to make a profit on this baby.....so lets just say they want to double their money ( which in todays buisness world isnt unrealistic) that would be a TRILLION dollars.....no wonder Mr Lasseter is doing the happy dance!

Just checking your math on that...
1,000,000,000
x 2
1,000,000,000,000

Hmmm... I guess you're right.

 

[Bolna]

I agree. Honestly, for a first time visitor the concept of planning visits to attractions they don't even know about months in advance would be completely overwhelming. Between Nextgen, booking dining 6 months out, the convoluted MYW ticketing, even regular Fastpass etc,. Disney seems to go out of their way to make things an overwhelming mess for anyone not familiar with the parks.

I am sure that there will be a demand for help with the scheduling issues this creates for the average tourist. I can see two solutions for this: Disney is going to offer some kind of pre-scheduled packages. I.e. you just say which attractions you pick for your FPs and Disney will automatically generate a schedule that is feasible, maybe even incorporate an ADR for lunch or dinner into it. If Disney does not offer any kind of service like that, I am sure the specialist Disney travel agents and or those companies like touringplans will.

I actually think that the incentive for Disney to offer something like this is to balance demand better and that appears to be one of their goals with the whole project: to distribute crowds more evenly throughout the park.

 

[John]

Just checking your math on that...
1,000,000,000
x 2
1,000,000,000,000

Hmmm... I guess you're right.

LMAO....I guess I am no math whiz either.... For some reason I was thinking 500 billion.....and not 500 million, I have no clue where that come from. But hey....whats a few zeros between freinds.

 

[Tom]

LMAO....I guess I am no math whiz either.... For some reason I was thinking 500 billion.....and not 500 million, I have no clue where that come from. But hey....whats a few zeros between freinds.

Better than 500 Brazillion....