Middle Earth theme park at Universal

[PirateFrank]

I thought someone either @marni1971 or @whylightbulb mentioned Comcast execs came in with an open checkbook(see I can spell American ) to agree not only to new projects but also to open a dialogue to buy back the Lockheed Martin land that was previously sold off.

Where is this Lockheed Martin plot? When I look at uni on google maps, I'm having a have time finding suitable land for a 3rd gate....

 

[SirLink]

And the property would have a considerably smaller fanbase. As you can probably tell I am not fond of the Tolkien Estate.

Neither am I, but we can thank Tolkien selling film, stage and merchandise rights to UA, though.

 

[SirLink]

Where is this Lockheed Martin plot? When I look at uni on google maps, I'm having a have time finding suitable land for a 3rd gate....

It was land north of Orlando Convention center but south of USO. It was around 1800 acres they sold it off long ago I wanna say 2002 maybe 2003. I don't know how much of the land Comcast are trying to buy back though.

 

[bhg469]

Well Disney had better announce something star wars related before universal does with lord of the rings. Even if its years away just showing they're serious about the parks will go a long way for me as a fan.

 

[Bolt]

Lord of the Rings is as equally as boring to me as Avatar - same group of fans if you ask me.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Lord of the Rings is as equally as boring to me as Avatar - same group of fans if you ask me.

And you can throw Harry Potter in there too. Yep, Fantasy Fiction. It's not for everyone. My brother hates them all. Then again he hates theme parks, especially Disney Parks, equally as much. His idea of a dream vacation would involve nothing but golf during the day and sitting in the hotel room watching FOX News at night. WHOOT!

 

[Lord Pheonix]

although i seriously doubt disney could ever be crushed by anyone, i do see something like this drawing ALOT more people away from disney to uni. after years of going to disney and not careing about uni, i now find myself considering giving 2 or 3 days to uni whenever i go to disney again. and there is an appeal to lotr that star wars didnt have, at least not to my knowledge. lotr has a HUGE and detailed backstory, even to the point of haveing middle earths own historical encyclopedia, " The encyclopedia of arda" this website explains the entire history of middle earth, from its inhabitance to its lands, mythical stories and factual events, very detailed and complete. this could be a great addition to uni, i think even better the harry potterland. HOWEVER:

where would uni build OR expand ANYTHING?? they dont have the room like disney does. anyone have a google map pic of any proposed expansion sites?

 

[Atomicmickey]

Last I read the Tolkien estate was adamantly opposed to almost anything that wasn't
the books themselves. This is a strange development indeed.

The thing is, if they're going to build something, it needs to be designed and visualized,
and at this point, the Jackson LOTR films "ARE" the look and feel of Middle-Earth to the
vast majority of the people on the planet. To build something that "looks kinda like that"
would be confusing in the extreme, I think. That doesn't mean they can't--it just means
that it would be a challenge to sell that vision of middle-earth while the films continue
to permeate the public consciousness in a huge way.

As someone who read and didn't enjoy the books as a kid, the films have changed my
whole impression of them and allowed me to enjoy them. To ignore them is a perilous
thing at this point.

 

[SirLink]

Last I read the Tolkien estate was adamantly opposed to almost anything that wasn't
the books themselves. This is a strange development indeed.

The thing is, if they're going to build something, it needs to be designed and visualized,
and at this point, the Jackson LOTR films "ARE" the look and feel of Middle-Earth to the
vast majority of the people on the planet. To build something that "looks kinda like that"
would be confusing in the extreme, I think. That doesn't mean they can't--it just means
that it would be a challenge to sell that vision of middle-earth while the films continue
to permeate the public consciousness in a huge way.

As someone who read and didn't enjoy the books as a kid, the films have changed my
whole impression of them and allowed me to enjoy them. To ignore them is a perilous
thing at this point.

Tolkien Estate don't have the rights to film, stage or merchandise - gotta love Old Man Tolkien for selling them to UA way back in the 60s. UA for selling them onto another company. It is easier to talk to Peter Jackson about borrowing prop copies than talking to Grandson Tolkien after all...

 

[Master Yoda]

Last I read the Tolkien estate was adamantly opposed to almost anything that wasn't
the books themselves. This is a strange development indeed.

The thing is, if they're going to build something, it needs to be designed and visualized,
and at this point, the Jackson LOTR films "ARE" the look and feel of Middle-Earth to the
vast majority of the people on the planet. To build something that "looks kinda like that"
would be confusing in the extreme, I think. That doesn't mean they can't--it just means
that it would be a challenge to sell that vision of middle-earth while the films continue
to permeate the public consciousness in a huge way.

As someone who read and didn't enjoy the books as a kid, the films have changed my
whole impression of them and allowed me to enjoy them. To ignore them is a perilous
thing at this point.

IMHO, Peter Jackson did an incredibly good job translating Tolkien's words into images. The Shire, Rivendale, Gondor, etc looked exactly like I pictured them during my many reads of the books. Ignoring Jackson's vision would be more than perilous, it would simply be inaccurate.

 

[GLaDOS]

Considering Universal and Universal Creative's good relationship with Jackson, I seriously doubt they'd bring in Middle Earth and not include his vision for the films.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Universal is not trying to crush Disney. Why would they want to crush anyone that brings 17 million people to the Orlando Metro Area. Just like they aren't trying to crush The Orlando Convention Center. What they are trying to do is to convince the 45 million people that visit Orlando every year to spend some of their time (and money) at Universal Orlando Resort.

Universal realizes that the Orlando Theme Park Demographic is a pretty discerning group and that it's going to take very high quality offerings to pry some of those 17 million away from the mouse for a few days. Also considering Disney's traditionally high room rates, there is an opportunity to grab some of those people with less expensive yet comparable resort options. None of that means they are trying to kill the mouse.

If anything kills the Mouse it will be their own arrogance and mismanagement.

 

[George]

IMHO, Peter Jackson did an incredibly good job translating Tolkien's words into images. The Shire, Rivendale, Gondor, etc looked exactly like I pictured them during my many reads of the books. Ignoring Jackson's vision would be more than perilous, it would simply be inaccurate.

I dunno. I always pictured 2 more turrets on the left side of Minas Tirith, 4th level and I always thought Isengard would have more shrubbery around its base. Other than that, PJ did a good job. :lookaroun

I'm unsure of comparative drawing powers of different franchises. I know that SW and LoTR are bigger draws for me that HP or Avatar. However, I've checked out the HP area and would be excited to check out the Avatar area. They all have the potential for stunning visuals. All have the potential to draw lots of people into TPs who aren't TP enthusiasts whether we're fans of a particular franchise or not. Avatar is the biggest risk from that perspective since it's only one movie and there is no source material. You're trusting JC not to "ruin" it.

I do agree with the thoughts on "original" rides/lands versus "franchise" lands/rides. It's amazing to me that Disney did such a masterful job marketing Everest, based on no existing popular franchise, and they've let the ride's signature effect fall into disrepair.

 

[Atomicmickey]

Tolkien Estate don't have the rights to film, stage or merchandise - gotta love Old Man Tolkien for selling them to UA way back in the 60s. UA for selling them onto another company. It is easier to talk to Peter Jackson about borrowing prop copies than talking to Grandson Tolkien after all...

What I read--and I'm sorry I can't dig it up and quote it here, was that the rights to do something
like a theme park were ABSOLUTELY still with them, and that they had no desire.

What they wanted, according to the article--was to let the books be the books, to be protected
as books only, and to stand alone as singular visions. Not to have anyone turn a book into anything else.
I guess the idea is that Tolkien's vision was for a BOOK, and not something else. He was more than
a bit of a curmudgeon and a luddite, and I could see that being his wish. In any event, his heirs
seem to feel that way. They want you to experience the book in your head, and not encourage
visualization.

 

[Captain Chaos]

To me its the only other lucrative IP that's out there, and with renewed interest due to The Hobbit films, I think its a perfect time to start such a project. I'd like to see an entire LOTR park but doubt it would happen.

WDW1974: Trust me, they're 1000% times better films than Avatar. I was never much into fantasy movies until I saw the first LOTR movie, then I was hooked, they're masterful and I would argue the best cinematography ever in film.

Star Trek... I would say that franchise is extremely lucrative too and would fit in perfectly by MIB for a completed sci-fi land in Uni...

 

[Disneyhead'71]

What I read--and I'm sorry I can't dig it up and quote it here, was that the rights to do something
like a theme park were ABSOLUTELY still with them, and that they had no desire.

What they wanted, according to the article--was to let the books be the books, to be protected
as books only, and to stand alone as singular visions. Not to have anyone turn a book into anything else.
I guess the idea is that Tolkien's vision was for a BOOK, and not something else. He was more than
a bit of a curmudgeon and a luddite, and I could see that being his wish. In any event, his heirs
seem to feel that way. They want you to experience the book in your head, and not encourage
visualization.

And yet we have 3 LotR Movies and 3 Hobbit movies. So there you are. And I don't know who has the rights, but the Tolkien Family are definitely involved with the negotiations.

And there is no need to have Jackson involved at a all. None of the directors of the Potter movies were invlolved with The Wizarding World of Harry Potter.

They would need either Grant Major (Porduction Designer of LotR) of Dan Hennah (Production Designer of the Hobbit movies), The Art Direction Team, and Weta Workshop (has all the CGI models).

 

[Atomicmickey]

And yet we have 3 LotR Movies and 3 Hobbit movies. So there you are. And I don't know who has the rights, but the Tolkien Family are definitely involved with the negotiations.

And there is no need to have Jackson involved at a all. None of the directors of the Potter movies were invlolved with The Wizarding World of Harry Potter.

They would need either Grant Major (Porduction Designer of LotR) of Dan Hennah (Production Designer of the Hobbit movies), The Art Direction Team, and Weta Workshop (has all the CGI models).

Yes, they did sell the film rights, and regretted it. The article I read was an interview with Christopher Tolkien.
When you say "are definitely involved with the negotiations", do you have first-hand knowledge,
as in you or a close friend or family member is involved, or are you merely quoting the internet,
that we all can read?

All the people who designed the films did so for the films, they couldn't use that work independently.
I'm a commercial artist, so I know of these things.
Weta is owned by Peter Jackson.
So, your thinking is a bit astray on this . . .
And you're missing Alan Lee and John Howe, they are the primary artists on the films, and were considered
pre-eminent visualizers of Middle-Earth before Jackson sought them out to design the films.

 

[celluloid]

Regardless, one would bet that there is enough loopholes or reasons in a Warners Brothers owned contract to do something with theme parks if they wanted to. Ya know, Warner Brothers, the same studio that has worked with Universal many times, specifically Orlando with The Wizarding World.

That being said I would have my doubts of The World of Tolkien becoming a theme park land. The age group and group itself there is not quite as diverse. They also know the flaws of Avatar in with Potter they have thousands of items of merchandise oppertunities. With a property like Tolkein's not so much.

 

[Atomicmickey]

OK, here are the articles.

http://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-...arillion-lord-of-rings/c3s10299/#.UOWn8neE58F

Quote: " In other words, the Estate can do little but watch the scenery, except in extreme cases-- for example, preventing the use of the name Lord of the Rings on Las Vegas slot machines, or for amusement parks."

Here's the article about the legal battles they are waging to stop this sort of thing:

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2012/11/tolkien-lawsuit/


All of which I would ignore if someone here had first hand knowledge of the actual negotiations.

 

[GLaDOS]

With a property like Tolkein's not so much.

Ummm...you're kidding right?

Swords, shields, armor, stuffed animals, etc, etc.

LotR could have just as much merchandising if not more.