Mickey Shorts Animation and Style

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Why are you so focused on this one documentary that probably has far less viewership than the all the properties you claim are "being ignored?"

Because it reveals how current Disney management views Mickey and his history and how they want people to view him & his legacy.. and ultimately has revealed to me ‘why’ I can’t find things like Mickey Mouse Works or House of Mouse on Disney Plus or any of the other missing things being mentioned in any other accounts of Mickey’s history. They don’t ‘want’ people to know it exists.. they don’t want anyone to acknowledge or watch it.. which makes no sense at all. Doesn’t help that they needlessly talk crap about Mickey’s Christmas Carol (first Mickey animated project made since the last one in the 50s, I ought to mention) in the Mickey Story Documentary for supposedly being “too safe” and “not actually a Mickey film”. That’s like saying Muppets Christmas Carol is too safe and that it’s actually a Michael Caine film and the Muppets don’t carry the true spirit & message throughout, while Scrooge shows us the opposite and then reforms. ‘That’ is what upsets me. None of that gets any appreciation or respect by the company, but actual mean spirited parodies that mock the company & the character & strictly preschool content & Ren & Stimpy style stuff that feels more parody like than genuine does.. it’s gross and rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Heppenheimer]

This is my problem… why can’t we still have a version that appeals to all ages, without having to be needlessly edgy, and without having to be ‘completely’ dumbed down w little to no personality or humor for preschoolers. There’s no reason why we can’t have one perfectly balanced/accessible to all like we did in the past.. new content I mean. Or heck, some of that old content that’s missing finally made available to watch again.

Question, do you have little kids? Seeing how Mickey Mouse Clubhouse has an almost magic appeal to my 4 and 1 year old, and it allows wifey and I to actually get stuff done when the kids are watching that show, it's an absolute godsend. I don't care at all how much an adult thinks they "dumbed down" Mickey, the fact is, kids of the target age group love it and it gives their parents a well-needed breather. It fills its intended function beautifully.

With the kids engrossed in the show, even our dogs calm down, because now there's just a little less chaos going on in the house.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Yes, it copies every trope from better quality preschool shows like Blue’s Clues & Dora the Explorer yet is blander & more uninspired… just with Mickey characters slapped on it that aren’t even in character. Could literally put any character in the role and it’d be exactly the same show.

Kids deserve better than to be pandered to, especially when better content with said character exists. But as I said earlier.. truth be told, I wouldn’t have such a problem with either version existing if the version that appealed to everyone ‘without’ being edgy or pandered to a preschooler or toddler, was ‘still’ fully & completely available, respected, and acknowledged by the company like the other two preschool & edgy versions are.
You’ll always like something if that’s the only exposure you have to said thing… but I have a good feeling, had they been exposed to the other aswell.. the one that would ultimately win out is the iteration that appeals to all that’s balanced in it’s approach. Disney has needlessly made this unavailable to you though, so you’re forced to settle with what you’re given.. and truth be told, while I respect that you enjoy it. I think you all deserve better.. cause they’re capable of better, and Walt felt that way back in the day also. There’s a reason his legacy made the impact it did and why folks like Iger & Chapek haven’t made the same level of impact

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

It’ll also be interesting to see how your kids will feel about Clubhouse & the new shorts when they grow up is all I have to say. ‘That’ will ultimately be the judging/lasting factor of the show

My own personal experience in folks that grew up with Clubhouse as their main exposure to Mickey & Friends.. so far, it results in these same kids absolutely hating them as they grew older cause he’s “that stupid little kids character/show I wouldn’t be caught dead saying I enjoy/love” Aka: the Barney & Friends factor/syndrome.. which again, is a problem. Folks don’t say this about shows like Mister Rogers, Bear in the Big Blue House, & Sesame Street, that respect kids ‘and’ adults and have humor & sincere/genuine personality thrown in for a reason. Same goes for other more traditional, classic cartoons. Are they gonna wanna pass down shows like Clubhouse and the new shorts to their kids? That’s the last thing I’ll say on Clubhouse atleast.

 

[Heppenheimer]

It’ll also be interesting to see how your kids will feel about Clubhouse & the new shorts when they grow up is all I have to say. ‘That’ will ultimately be the judging/lasting factor of the show

My own personal experience in folks that grew up with Clubhouse as their main exposure to Mickey & Friends.. so far, it results in these same kids absolutely hating them as they grew older cause he’s “that stupid little kids character/show I wouldn’t be caught dead saying I enjoy/love” Aka: the Barney & Friends factor/syndrome.. which again, is a problem. Folks don’t say this about shows like Mister Rogers & Sesame Street for a reason. Same goes for other more traditional, classic cartoons. That’s the last thing I’ll say on Clubhouse atleast.

I don't expect my kids to care at all about Clubhouse when they get older... because they won't be preschoolers anymore and they will no longer be the intended audience. I'd be more worried if they were still obsessed with it!

By the time they get older, Disney will have something new for them anyway. They always do. Since they're growing up with happy memories of visiting the resorts and watching the TV shows and movies, I doubt they'll completely sour on Disney. And if they do? So what? They'll find something else that interests them. Wifey and I are somewhat Disney-nerds, but that doesn't mean we expect our kids to follow along the exact same path.

 

[brb1006]

There’s actually a whole range of “Totally Minnie” (and related) merchandise, not to mention a lot of stuff featuring the characters wearing this later-’80s garb:

But yes, you’re right that these forays into contemporary fashion were a relatively minor part of the characters’ identity, which remained rooted in their classic designs.

I wasn’t aware of the Worlds of Wonder Talking Mickey cassettes and books. Thanks for bringing them to my attention; I’ll have to check them out.

I remember seeing the Mickey and Minnie ones at a local daycare two decades ago.

 

[_caleb]

It’ll also be interesting to see how your kids will feel about Clubhouse & the new shorts when they grow up is all I have to say. ‘That’ will ultimately be the judging/lasting factor of the show

My own personal experience in folks that grew up with Clubhouse as their main exposure to Mickey & Friends.. so far, it results in these same kids absolutely hating them as they grew older cause he’s “that stupid little kids character/show I wouldn’t be caught dead saying I enjoy/love” Aka: the Barney & Friends factor/syndrome.. which again, is a problem. Folks don’t say this about shows like Mister Rogers, Bear in the Big Blue House, & Sesame Street, that respect kids ‘and’ adults and have humor & sincere/genuine personality thrown in for a reason. Same goes for other more traditional, classic cartoons. Are they gonna wanna pass down shows like Clubhouse and the new shorts to their kids? That’s the last thing I’ll say on Clubhouse atleast.

My thoughts about your perspective after reading all you've had to say about the matter:

• You're obviously a big fan with a deep and broad knowledge of Mickey Mouse
• I don't think your experience is representative of the majority of Disney's audience
• Disney has developed multiple Mickeys for multiple audiences. The preschool versions are an introduction to the character, and seem to work as a pretty good one that prepares people for the other versions
• I'm sorry you feel slighted by the recent Mickey doc on D+. I don't think the exclusion of 90s/2000s Mickey was as calculated as you seem to think
• It doesn't sound like you're giving the Rudish shorts a fair assessment. They have lots of heart, good energy, and beautiful artwork. Yes, there's a bit of crude/gross humor in there, but I've not seen any "mocking" of Mickey
• You might want to think of it as a Mickey multiverse. The character exists in several forms, each primarily aimed at a different audiences. This is a good thing, as it means more and more people are connecting with Mickey (in all his forms) than ever before!

 

[_caleb]

This is my problem… why can’t we still have a version that appeals to all ages, without having to be needlessly edgy, and without having to be ‘completely’ dumbed down w little to no personality or humor for preschoolers. There’s no reason why we can’t have one perfectly balanced/accessible to all like we did in the past.. new content I mean. Or heck, some of that old content that’s missing finally made available to watch again.

Because the version of Mickey that "appeals to all ages" doesn't work.

You know how the timeline of Mickey's development has a big void in the 60s and 70s? That's because from Disney's perspective, people got bored of the 1950s version of him! And because Disney had turned him into a corporate mascot (especially at the parks), Disney wasn't willing to take risks with the character like they had done in the 30s/40s– they didn't want his personality to change from feature to feature, and they didn't want him to be angry, wacky, goofy, silly. Which only made him more boring (maybe not to you, but to a lot of people).

The Rudish shorts show Mickey as anything but boring, and that's why I like them.

 

[_caleb]

I am continually amazed, though, how well the Clubhouse formula hits for pre-schoolers. Funhouse and Roadster Racers, at least in my closely observed sample population of 2, simply don't hold their interest. I am convinced the main impetus for the creation of the latter was "Sell more toys! Who cares about plot and engaging the viewers?".

They also love the Wonderful World of Mickey Mouse.

The formula is based on lots of research, pioneered by Children's Television Workshop, the group behind Sesame Street. Their focus was educational entertainment (especially for inner-city children). To really understand how to use TV in education, they invented new tools (like eye-tracking cameras that tracked kid's gaze and attention span during a program to measure what kids focused on most). They also tested retention of information (the names of characters, details of a scene, educational content, etc.) and deliberately built in more of what connected with kids.

Before this, children's programming was largely treated as "adult programming, but silly."

Sesame Street research - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dora the Explorer was another milestone in children's programming, focused on language learning, geography, and animals. The annoying character voices, the simulated interactivity with open-ended questions and long pauses to allow viewers to respond, problem-solving, and the characters staring straight into the "camera" were all extremely effective at getting/retaining kids' attention.

Mickey Mouse Clubhouse/Funhouse/Racers all use these approaches to connect with kids, and while it is formulaic, the formula really works!

 

[brb1006]

The formula is based on lots of research, pioneered by Children's Television Workshop, the group behind Sesame Street. Their focus was educational entertainment (especially for inner-city children). To really understand how to use TV in education, they invented new tools (like eye-tracking cameras that tracked kid's gaze and attention span during a program to measure what kids focused on most). They also tested retention of information (the names of characters, details of a scene, educational content, etc.) and deliberately built in more of what connected with kids.

Before this, children's programming was largely treated as "adult programming, but silly."

Sesame Street research - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dora the Explorer was another milestone in children's programming, focused on language learning, geography, and animals. The annoying character voices, the simulated interactivity with open-ended questions and long pauses to allow viewers to respond, problem-solving, and the characters staring straight into the "camera" were all extremely effective at getting/retaining kids' attention.

Mickey Mouse Clubhouse/Funhouse/Racers all use these approaches to connect with kids, and while it is formulaic, the formula really works!

The Dora formula started dying as the early 2010s approached. Especially with the success of Sofia the First and Doc Mcstuffins which both ditched the fake interactivity format. Which explains the retool for future CGI Preschool Mickey shows starting with Roadside Racers. Plus some international audiences (especially Japan) aren't fond of the interactivity format.

 

[Heppenheimer]

The Dora formula started dying as the early 2010s approached. Especially with the success of Sofia the First and Doc Mcstuffins which both ditched the fake interactivity format. Which explains the retool for future CGI Preschool Mickey shows starting with Roadside Racers. Plus some international audiences (especially Japan) aren't fond of the interactivity format.

Roadster Racers, though, doesn't seem to have any educational aspirations, other than some occasional slight geography lessons. And Funhouse just seems to consists of wacky adventures.

 

[Heppenheimer]

My thoughts about your perspective after reading all you've had to say about the matter:

• You're obviously a big fan with a deep and broad knowledge of Mickey Mouse
• I don't think your experience is representative of the majority of Disney's audience
• Disney has developed multiple Mickeys for multiple audiences. The preschool versions are an introduction to the character, and seem to work as a pretty good one that prepares people for the other versions
• I'm sorry you feel slighted by the recent Mickey doc on D+. I don't think the exclusion of 90s/2000s Mickey was as calculated as you seem to think
• It doesn't sound like you're giving the Rudish shorts a fair assessment. They have lots of heart, good energy, and beautiful artwork. Yes, there's a bit of crude/gross humor in there, but I've not seen any "mocking" of Mickey
• You might want to think of it as a Mickey multiverse. The character exists in several forms, each primarily aimed at a different audiences. This is a good thing, as it means more and more people are connecting with Mickey (in all his forms) than ever before!

I would disagree a little there. It's all done in good fun, but some of the episodes do make fun of Mickey's unfailingly cheerful and helpful reputation. He's a bit of a helicopter parent/pet owner in School of Fish. He's almost cluelessly naive in The Big Good Wolf. His inability to say "no" to anyone is played up in Supermarket Scramble and Houseghosts. And in Just the Four of Us, they hilariously demonstrate just how exhausting actually being friends with Mickey and Minnie would feel (this episode is a series highlight for me, although my wife finds the references to horror films a little too creepy).

 

[_caleb]

The Dora formula started dying as the early 2010s approached. Especially with the success of Sofia the First and Doc Mcstuffins which both ditched the fake interactivity format. Which explains the retool for future CGI Preschool Mickey shows starting with Roadside Racers. Plus some international audiences (especially Japan) aren't fond of the interactivity format.

Yes, the "Dora formula" could not compete with the true interactivity of apps.

Roadster Racers, though, doesn't seem to have any educational aspirations, other than some occasional slight geography lessons. And Funhouse just seems to consists of wacky adventures.

I agree. No real educational content there. They seem to use similar approaches from the behavioral research findings for wholesome kids entertainment, though.

If you zoom out to a higher level, you can see that with Mickey, Disney is effectively building a cradle-to-grownup engagement strategy with strategically-designed building blocks:

• Preschool content that kids enjoy and parents feel good about
• Gradeschool content that focuses more on adventure, teamwork, citizenship, etc.
• Youth content for mobile devices
• Family content (specials)

Obviously there are still gaps, but this is a different strategy than one single version of Mickey for all ages.

I expect we'll eventually see either a release or reboot of House of Mouse/Mickey Works or both.

 

[_caleb]

I would disagree a little there. It's all done in good fun, but some of the episodes do make fun of Mickey's unfailingly cheerful and helpful reputation. He's a bit of a helicopter parent/pet owner in School of Fish. He's almost cluelessly naive in The Big Good Wolf. His inability to say "no" to anyone is played up in Supermarket Scramble and Houseghosts. And in Just the Four of Us, they hilariously demonstrate just how exhausting actually being friends with Mickey and Minnie would feel (this episode is a series highlight for me, although my wife finds the references to horror films a little too creepy).

I see these as Disney demonstrating a bit of self awareness about Mickey rather than outright mocking, but I see what you mean.

 

[LittleBuford]

I see these as Disney demonstrating a bit of self awareness about Mickey rather than outright mocking, but I see what you mean.

To me, mockery implies a certain snideness, whereas what the shorts engage in is affectionate teasing.

 

[Brer Panther]

Initially Roy wasn’t on board with putting Iger in either but Iger ultimately manipulated & forced him in a place to hire him as CEO rather than getting someone else..

Are you kidding me?

Iger essentially conned his way into becoming the CEO of Disney?

Jeez, as if I didn't hate the guy enough already...

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Are you kidding me?

Iger essentially conned his way into becoming the CEO of Disney?

Jeez, as if I didn't hate the guy enough already...

Ride of a Lifetime, read it. It mentions how it went down. And that’s how it reads to me atleast.

 

[Stumpos]

So who would've run Disney if Roy E Disney had his way instead of Bob Iger?

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

So who would've run Disney if Roy E Disney had his way instead of Bob Iger?

No idea… truth be told. Now granted, Roy was no saint either, though I deeply respect him for his efforts with animation & trying his best to keep the company more in line with how Walt would’ve innovated tastefully. But yeah.. He wanted to sell off the parks while retaining only the animation & live action film & tv studios. But the best scenario would’ve been someone chosen who loved & was passionate about the parks & the animation/film studios equally.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Even as a child, I was a true Disney loyalist and felt guilty admitting to myself that I didn’t find the classic Disney shorts as funny as Loony Tunes, Tom and Jerry, etc. The new Mickey shorts, however, make me smile and laugh whenever I watch them.

I think the Donald & Goofy shorts could stand alongside Looney Tunes/Tom & Jerry. But yeah, the old Mickey, Pluto, etc... aren't as funny.

However, these new Mickey shorts are some of the funniest cartoons out there right now; I find them a lot funnier than the HBO Max Looney Tune shorts tbh (those have better animation though).

I would disagree a little there. It's all done in good fun, but some of the episodes do make fun of Mickey's unfailingly cheerful and helpful reputation. He's a bit of a helicopter parent/pet owner in School of Fish. He's almost cluelessly naive in The Big Good Wolf. His inability to say "no" to anyone is played up in Supermarket Scramble and Houseghosts. And in Just the Four of Us, they hilariously demonstrate just how exhausting actually being friends with Mickey and Minnie would feel (this episode is a series highlight for me, although my wife finds the references to horror films a little too creepy).

I'd say it's rule of funny. Whatever's funniest for the plot is what they'll go with. Lots of old cartoons did this.

I wouldn't say any of those shorts are disrespectful of the character either. They're definitely not like Ren & Stimpy as I've seen it been compared to. I think the real best comparison for these new Mickey shorts is Spongebob.