DHS Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

[RobotWolf]

I only suggested that the market was diminishing. But if you believe that simply stating that this market still exists wins some internet points, then fair enough.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Yeah, kids and teens are all about nostalgia (and always have been)... they just FLOCK to history museums.

Yeah yeah, Disney is about everyone playing together, but one of the happiest things for parents is see is: their kids happy...

Nothing new here, always been the case.

Insinuating museums are about nostalgia is the funniest thing I've ever heard

"Remember World War II? Those were the days!"

 

[Casper Gutman]

I only suggested that the market was diminishing. But if you believe that simply stating that this market still exists wins some internet points, then fair enough.

To a huge extent, the nostalgia market IS the pop culture market today. This weekend a movie based on characters from the early 60s (and one from the early 40s) obliterated every single box office record. It will be challenged in a few weeks by an adult-friendly live-action film based on a 90s cartoon. Every franchise I listed in the second paragraph above will see a new big screen installment in the next two years.

P.S. One upcoming film property I didn’t list that seems very relevant here - Jungle Cruise.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Nothing like a good "Disney is a business" argument followed by what is hip and relevant today. Good times.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Nostalgia is more nuanced than anyone is allowing for. Nostalgia is real. It is commoditizable. But it only gets you so far.

The latest LEGO movie tanked. The Adams Family Broadway musical tanked. So many movies made from old TV shows tanked. Sometimes nostalgia gets you that first bite of the apple (as in the first LEGO movie) and then no further.

Nostalgia that has been regularly updated and promoted can do well (Mickey Mouse). But if it's long in the past, it might have lost its audience (sorry Mortimer) and would have to be re-introduced in some way.

We've all seen nostalgia slapped onto a really bad vehicle and fail. But if the vehicle is done well, the nostalgia has a multiplier effect.

And by itself, without updates, nostalgia will fail as the people who once knew and loved it based on emotion simply die off, even if their fervor for it is strong. Death beats strong fervor.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Nostalgia is more nuanced than anyone is allowing for. Nostalgia is real. It is commoditizable. But it only gets you so far.

The latest LEGO movie tanked. The Adams Family Broadway musical tanked. So many movies made from old TV shows tanked. Sometimes nostalgia gets you that first bite of the apple (as in the first LEGO movie) and then no further.

Nostalgia that has been regularly updated and promoted can do well (Mickey Mouse). But if it's long in the past, it might have lost its audience (sorry Mortimer) and would have to be re-introduced in some way.

We've all seen nostalgia slapped onto a really bad vehicle and fail. But if the vehicle is done well, the nostalgia has a multiplier effect.

And by itself, without updates, nostalgia will fail as the people who once knew and loved it based on emotion simply die off, even if their fervor for it is strong. Death beats strong fervor.

Mortimer may not be marketable, but Oswald is proving viable after nearly a century of non-existence.

Nostalgia is more nuanced then we are acknowledging, but in modern, post-2000 pop culture it is more powerful then you seem to be acknowledging. Some nostalgia-fueled enterprises do fail (although the TV-to-film failures you mention are very much of the 90s, a different entertainment moment). But every major modern film franchise I can think of (save perhaps Fast & Furious) relies heavily on nostalgia.

This conversation began because “new” and “state-of-the-art” were posited as simple, unqualified positives. Nostalgia was bad because it stood in their way. But despite nostalgia’s overwhelming power at this particular cultural moment, neither “new” or “nostalgic” is inherently good on its own. But nostalgia more often (certainly not always) attaches to things that are unique and have some genuine quality to them. This is the case with the classic Disney rides. I would argue that nostalgia - a key component of longevity - is less likely to attach to many of the recent rides - firstly because so many are lackluster, secondly because the reliance on screens (and, possibly, the connection to much broader IPs) renders them less unique.

 

[flynnibus]

Not to get back into it BUT it was an a) outdated ride system, b) outdated story, c) over-reliant on "cast members as actors", and generally not nearly as popular as it should be in that location. Could they have updated it? Sure. However, that's what leadership is about: making tough choices. You don't have to agree (or even spend your $$ there) if you don't want to.

You act like live acting is bad...

How about.. bad acting is bad... and robotic entertainment is not as fun as live entertainment either.

 

[flynnibus]

Additionally:
1. SWGE is a massive capacity increase. It replaced an area used by basically, nothing.

The Tram tour and LMA were probably the two biggest capacity attractions in the park... now replaced by two average capacity attractions. The issue was 'relevance' and demand. Capacity boost... it is not.

 

[aliceismad]

Mortimer may not be marketable, but Oswald is proving viable after nearly a century of non-existence.

I have no idea whether Mortimer is marketable, but he's appeared in both the new Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and Mickey and the Roadster Racers. He's not altogether forgotten.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Look you can fiddle with the definition all you want to make your point.

It depends on how you are defining the word.

lolz

 

[Missing20K]

Mortimer may not be marketable, but Oswald is proving viable after nearly a century of non-existence.

Nostalgia is more nuanced then we are acknowledging, but in modern, post-2000 pop culture it is more powerful then you seem to be acknowledging. Some nostalgia-fueled enterprises do fail (although the TV-to-film failures you mention are very much of the 90s, a different entertainment moment). But every major modern film franchise I can think of (save perhaps Fast & Furious) relies heavily on nostalgia.

This conversation began because “new” and “state-of-the-art” were posited as simple, unqualified positives. Nostalgia was bad because it stood in their way. But despite nostalgia’s overwhelming power at this particular cultural moment, neither “new” or “nostalgic” is inherently good on its own. But nostalgia more often (certainly not always) attaches to things that are unique and have some genuine quality to them. This is the case with the classic Disney rides. I would argue that nostalgia - a key component of longevity - is less likely to attach to many of the recent rides - firstly because so many are lackluster, secondly because the reliance on screens (and, possibly, the connection to much broader IPs) renders them less unique.

I'm not even sure it matters that "nostalgia" is "in" at the moment.

Nostalgia can simply be the wonderful memories any countless number of grandparents and parents have of taking their offspring to the parks. Not any specific attraction. Though it certainly helps the cause when you can tell Grandpap that little Joey can ride the same teacups he did when he was the same age.

That is the nostalgia DIS explicitly markets. The "once in a lifetime" trips. The anniversary trips. Weddings. Grandparents and parents and kids all enjoying the parks together.

Memory Maker hits you over the head with nostalgia in the name alone.

Few people on earth were even alive when Steamboat Willie was released and yet they are using the same whistle from the short in MMRR. I guess WDI has a problem with nostalgia.

 

[flynnibus]

Capacity doesn't matter if nobody wants to partake.

You still used crap points to justify your postulation of why demand was down. So doesn't matter what the end result is.. your addition to the collective is wrong.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

I'd fully support killing of Jungle Cruise for a better use of the land, presuming something of the order of Pandora/FoP. And give up PotC for Shanghai's version. And the current coaster in Space Mountain for a much better one with a smoother ride and better FX. And IaSW for a much better updated one (preferably in Epcot). And Speedway for electric TRON racers (or RC Racers in TSL). I would have been totally on board with TGMR having most of its scenes updated and MMRR going elsewhere, as long as TGMR was indeed updated.

Many of these attractions are noted for being the worst version of their cloned siblings or terribly outdated or terribly maintained, and yet, even with that acknowledgment, people throw their bodies in front of the wrecking ball because they're preserving their nostalgia, not a good experience for the next generation.

Frankly, its selfish.

Calling people selfish for having an attachment to something and expressing their feelings about it is kind of ridiculous. It's like you're suggesting that upset fans actually change the decisions of TWDC, and that everyone is worse off because of it. If that were the case, GMR and DCA's ToT would still be around.

Bringing up that an attraction is poorly maintained seems like a dumb reason to suggest it gets replaced. In an ideal world all attractions should continually receive general maintenance and be refreshed with new effects and such from time to time. Let's not forget that we are talking about a massive corporation that has the power to keep classic attractions properly maintained and keep expanding with state of the art attractions.

Also, your idea of a good experience for the next generation is not the same as everyone else's. The fact that there are multiple generations, including young people, that have fond memories of the Jungle Cruise and PotC (even the MK version!) shows that these attractions are still relevant. You often try to prove why things you dislike are objectively bad, but in many cases attractions are just greater than the sum of their parts. Whether you like it or not, nostalgia is a huge part of the Disney theme park experience. Parents like to watch their kids experience what they're own parents took them to see when they were kids. People are attached to these classic rides for a reason.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Calling people selfish for having an attachment to something and expressing their feelings about it is kind of ridiculous.

Context... it's the people who recognize the flaws and yet want to keep it that way based on personal emotion is what is selfish. That's pretty much the definition of selfish.

 

[marni1971]

Lots of opinions in there masquerading as facts.

Imagine that.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

Context... it's the people who recognize the flaws and yet want to keep it that way based on personal emotion is what is selfish. That's pretty much the definition of selfish.

Right, but I'd say in most cases it's not that simple. People either 1) recognize the flaws in a beloved attraction, but Disney does nothing to fix it (GMR is a great example of this), or 2) simply do not view something as a flaw or don't think it is bad enough to ruin the experience.

One could even argue that it is selfish of someone to want to remove something that others do not see as flawed.

 

[El Grupo]

Just my $.02...I and my family are excited about MMRR. However, for a park that is in desperate need for attractions, the decision to replace GMR vs. refurbishing it and adding MMRR as a new build is a real head scratcher IMO.

Otherwise, Disney should feel very comfortable taking down IJ, Animation Courtyard and/or B&tB to begin new phases anytime, even with the SWGE apocalypse on the horizon.

 

[Phicinfan]

Look you can fiddle with the definition all you want to make your point. I am basing my comments on the meaning of nostalgia being: an interest in reliving the past/seeing old stuff and thus a desire to preserve such things for this sake.

I don't consider The Avengers nostalgia as most people younger than 40 have no clue where it all came from, and couldn't care less. The past is NOT why they are choosing to see it.

If you think the youth of this world are not reading comics or graphic novels and reading Marvel as such, you are extremely wrong there. You have a terrible tendancy to post your opinion as fact, it is opinion. Plus you missed the whole point of what nostalgia is as was pointed out in the thread you quoted.

 

[Phicinfan]

Just my $.02...I and my family are excited about MMRR. However, for a park that is in desperate need for attractions, the decision to replace GMR vs. refurbishing it and adding MMRR as a new build is a real head scratcher IMO.

Otherwise, Disney should feel very comfortable taking down IJ, Animation Courtyard and/or B&tB to begin new phases anytime, even with the SWGE apocalypse on the horizon.

Here is my only issue.
First I am with alot of folks here and truly loved GMR, and am greatly saddened by the loss of it. I get the perfect world would have been an updated GMR, and MMRR added elsewhere.

However, it has been clearly stated by @marni1971 and other insiders that Disney saw the cost of redoing GMR and maintaining it was way too high. So I don't think there ever was an opportunity to have both. It seems that its one or the other.

As much as I loved GMR, I will ride MMRR eventually and compare and see if the decision made was best or not

 

[El Grupo]

Here is my only issue.
First I am with alot of folks here and truly loved GMR, and am greatly saddened by the loss of it. I get the perfect world would have been an updated GMR, and MMRR added elsewhere.

However, it has been clearly stated by @marni1971 and other insiders that Disney saw the cost of redoing GMR and maintaining it was way too high. So I don't think there ever was an opportunity to have both. It seems that its one or the other.

As much as I loved GMR, I will ride MMRR eventually and compare and see if the decision made was best or not

I can appreciate the cost concerns with refurbishing and maintaining GMR. To me, the issue is not with keeping a specific ride. It is losing one for another.

If I recall correctly, those same insiders also previously mentioned additional phases with attractions for DHS that were very close to being green lit a couple of years ago. But, those were postponed/shelved due to costs/budget changes, among other things. However, this has not slowed Disneyland from moving ahead with plans for another attraction (MMRR) while DHS appears to wait.

Either way, I also look forward to MMRR in Orlando.