DHS Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

[yensidtlaw1969]

I guess my point is, what are you doing looking up? There’s so much to see! Pirates is a small scene and then a bunch of dark followed by a medium scene and a bunch of dark, MMRR is an all-encompassing scene with vibrant color and frenetic energy followed immediately by another all-encompassing scene with vibrant colors and frenetic energy - why are you staring at the ceiling? (The ceiling works wonderfully when they do incorporate it into the waterfall scene)

Several of the scenes in Runaway Railway actively draw your eye upward towards the top of the space, naturally putting the big, black ceiling right in your view. And as you say, it's in high contrast with everything vibrant around it, so the big gap of negative space is highly noticeable. Especially since in many cases this could have been solved by simply mapping the ceiling, bringing the room to a full 360 experience.

Pirates is different - it's nighttime. That's understood implicitly. Your brain isn't seeking action up in the sky, and most of the action is staged down at the level of the city, keeping sightlines relatively low. But the sets continue up higher in case you do take a look at them, and they resolve as complete buildings rather than cutting off awkwardly. And on the odd chance you do look up, the ceiling IS actually painted the same color as the walls, and there are some old, low-tech cloud projectors that make clear that you're of course meant to feel like you're looking at the sky. While it's not especially convincing, it's a surprising detail given, as you say, how much there is to see all around you. Pirates has almost 100 animatronics for you to look at and still projected on the ceilings just in case.

Even in the late 60's/Easly 70's they knew that, even though the ride mostly keeps your attention elsewhere, folding the ceiling into the show is part of creating a complete, immersive experience. You'd think that nearly 50 years on we could expect a brand new, fully-projection-mapped attraction to follow that lead instead of reject it.

 

[brb1006]

Yeah, that part of Pooh's Hunny Hunt is the best one I've seen (via video; haven't been there in person) in terms of not feeling like you're in a huge warehouse. Rise also doesn't really feel like that (as I said), but that's due to the nature of the IP itself.

Even Pooh, though, has some of that warehouse feel in the Heffalumps and Woozles room. I don't think I've seen one (outside of Rise, maybe) that doesn't have at least one area with a warehouse feel.

The Heffalump and Wozzles section can get away with it since it's in Pooh's Dream sequence. And it's suppose to have a chaotic party atmosphere with disco balls and a ceiling.

 

[marni1971]

Indeed, The Aracuan Bird - Pirates at WDW has its problems for sure, and the Sky isn't as well-resolved as it is at Disneyland, but between Pirates and Runaway Railway one has a clearer issue with ceilings than the other:

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Pirates is like "There's not too much to see if you look up", where Railway is more like "Please don't look up".

That is not good at all.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

That is not good at all.

Right? It's a total cop-out.

 

[marni1971]

Right? It's a total cop-out.

The UoE figured it out. In 1982.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

The UoE figured it out. In 1982.

And they had a MUCH bigger ceiling to disguise!

Even if they'd just painted the ceiling the dominant color of the sky in the scene it'd be much less of a problem. Instead . . . straight-up black?

 

[The Aracuan Bird]

The UoE figured it out. In 1982.

I don’t think it’s impossible to do it today. Rather, it’s the lack of interest. Which is a shame because it can have a large impact on the scenes that have bright blue skies, but a black ceiling? The ride is advertised as being inside a cartoon. Not watching one on either side.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

The UoE figured it out. In 1982.

And they had a MUCH bigger ceiling to disguise!

Even if they'd just painted the ceiling the dominant color of the sky in the scene it'd be much less of a problem. Instead . . . straight-up black?

I don’t think it’s impossible to do it today. Rather, it’s the lack of interest. Which is a shame because it can have a large impact on the scenes that have bright blue skies, but a black ceiling? The ride is advertised as being inside a cartoon. Not watching one on either side.

Imagine, if instead of this:

It looked like this:

Not even a huge structural difference - literally all I did was adjust the paint color of the ceiling that exists. That's why you can still see the vents and things. But isn't it still several times better than before??

 

[Thelazer]

Mapping the ceiling would have been SUPER F'ing easy and prob would have added very little to the overall budget.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Isn’t the ceiling mostly fully open and soundstage like to enable all the projection mapping?

This is sort of a symptom of a 360 degree projection based attraction…

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Mapping the ceiling would have been SUPER F'ing easy and prob would have added very little to the overall budget.

Aww heck, let's REALLY dream for a second and imagine if they'd rounded the ceilings and mapped the whole thing:

Isn’t the ceiling mostly fully open and soundstage like to enable all the projection mapping?

This is sort of a symptom of a 360 degree projection based attraction…

Some of it is open, though several scenes are essentially flat ceilings. However, they have a projector peeking through a hole in the top of the Waterfall projection dome to map the floor in that scene, so there's really no reason they couldn't do something similar throughout the attraction.

Aside from $$$, of course.

 

[brb1006]

Aww heck, let's REALLY dream for a second and imagine if they'd rounded the ceilings and mapped the whole thing:

View attachment 554971

Now that is how you address the ceiling issue. Can we see similar edits for other sections of the attraction that have this issue?

 

[HauntedPirate]

Aww heck, let's REALLY dream for a second and imagine if they'd rounded the ceilings and mapped the whole thing:

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Some of it is open, though several scenes are essentially flat ceilings. However, they have a projector peeking through a hole in the top of the Waterfall projection dome to map the floor in that scene, so there's really no reason they couldn't do something similar throughout the attraction.

Aside from $$$, of course.

For all the ingenuity and brilliance of WDI that would have been required to do something like that, I'd put the price tag at... $50 million. (Sarcasm, obviously, but pointing out the ridiculous spending of WDI these days)

 

[lazyboy97o]

For all the ingenuity and brilliance of WDI that would have been required to do something like that, I'd put the price tag at... $50 million.

You jest but ceilings in dark rides are difficult and expensive. Ceilings are part of how a building and, more importantly, the people inside are protected from fires. Dark rides need a ceiling with a lot of holes in it for things like show lighting or, in the case of Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway, projectors. The end result is that you would have to double up on things like smoke detectors and sprinklers, some up high above the ceiling and some right there on that ceiling you’re trying to make part of the show. It’s more expensive stuff that you have to fit in an already crowded attic space. It’s a place that people aren’t supposed to look so it’s an easy thing to cut and not deal with the headaches.

 

[TikibirdLand]

For all the ingenuity and brilliance of WDI that would have been required to do something like that, I'd put the price tag at... $50 million. (Sarcasm, obviously, but pointing out the ridiculous spending of WDI these days)

Along those lines, has anyone noticed how Goofy, looking out the back of the engine, doesn't fill the opening? The screen is square and the opening has an arch. Every time I see that, it's pretty glaring.

 

[HauntedPirate]

You jest but ceilings in dark rides are difficult and expensive. Ceilings are part of how a building and, more importantly, the people inside are protected from fires. Dark rides need a ceiling with a lot of holes in it for things like show lighting or, in the case of Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway, projectors. The end result is that you would have to double up on things like smoke detectors and sprinklers, some up high above the ceiling and some right there on that ceiling you’re trying to make part of the show. It’s more expensive stuff that you have to fit in an already crowded attic space. It’s a place that people aren’t supposed to look so it’s an easy thing to cut and not deal with the headaches.

So something that could have been handled better with a new building instead of shoehorning MMRR into an existing building.

 

[UNCgolf]

Along those lines, has anyone noticed how Goofy, looking out the back of the engine, doesn't fill the opening? The screen is square and the opening has an arch. Every time I see that, it's pretty glaring.

That was one of the very first things I noticed. I can't believe they thought that was acceptable.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

You jest but ceilings in dark rides are difficult and expensive. Ceilings are part of how a building and, more importantly, the people inside are protected from fires. Dark rides need a ceiling with a lot of holes in it for things like show lighting or, in the case of Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway, projectors. The end result is that you would have to double up on things like smoke detectors and sprinklers, some up high above the ceiling and some right there on that ceiling you’re trying to make part of the show. It’s more expensive stuff that you have to fit in an already crowded attic space. It’s a place that people aren’t supposed to look so it’s an easy thing to cut and not deal with the headaches.

Hence why I led with a Photoshop showing the current ceiling simply painted to match the sky - it WOULD be a real investment to turn every room into essentially a full projector dome, but I think some sky-colored paint instead of black on the ceiling would have solved more headaches than it would have caused.

I'd *prefer* a fully mapped dome, but I'd settle for the paint.

 

[Touchdown]

Just remember in the sea shot, straight painting wouldn’t work because the sky/water color changes twice (clear sky to red from volcano and then ocean blue.)

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Just remember in the sea shot, straight painting wouldn’t work because the sky/water color changes twice (clear sky to red from volcano and then ocean blue.)

Yes, that's one of the problems I was referring to earlier when I said paint would help in *most* scenes. The transformation in the Boiler Room is similar.

Those are both rooms where a fully projection mapped ceiling would make that much more of a difference, but alas.