Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
It is.. and learn to acknowledge that and accept it instead of making up claims like "its easier for locals" which has nothing to do with your personal preference on the time you like to wake up.

Literally your argument boils down to "7am openings are too early for me... I want to sleep in more and still ride. So I don't like distribution at 7am park openings"

Nothing more. Not that it's easier for group 1 vs 2... or whatever. Literally it's you don't want to be there for a 7am opening. End of story.
Which I've said multiple times. That doesn't mean I'm wrong. And the things I said about transportation ARE still a problem for most Disney resort guests; it's not easy to dismiss as you're pretending even if it's not something that matters to me personally. It IS easier for locals who have their own car. That's not something specific to RotR; it just matters more in this particular scenario and it's exacerbated by distributing all the boarding groups at opening when opening is at 7 AM. But the issue would still exist even if the opening was at 9 AM or 10 AM -- distributing all the groups at one time isn't the most efficient way to operate.

Regardless, you already agreed with me, so thanks.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
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Which I've said multiple times. That doesn't mean I'm wrong
No, it still means you don't know how to communicate your issue and instead make up other stuff that isn't correct.

It IS easier for locals who have their own car
And this is where you keep screwing up. It has nothing to do with being a local - your point is about who has a car or not. Plenty of resort guests have cars! The decisive point in your argument is who is using Disney transportation or sourcing their own. It has nothing to do with the split you've tried to argue.

distributing all the groups at one time isn't the most efficient way to operate.

Regardless, you already agreed with me, so thanks.
You're just catching up to stuff I wrote over a month ago... quoted below

Fairest isn't really true. It's fair in the sense everyone has the same shot at getting one, but it could still be distributed in another ways to make it more accessible to other audiences.

For instance, Disney could simply release BG blocks at regular intervals during the day. This would diffuse the need to be there first thing in the AM... relieving a lot of that pressure. Plus it would incentivize people to stay in the park as they would keep getting more shots at a BG if they miss out early.

Example: Release 20 blocks every 90mins at a pre-set time. Still limit people to one BG per day. This would mean those that are there earlier... get multiple chances to get a BG. And those that are there later, still get a chance at a BG. All while encouraging guests to be in the park... and discouraging the benefit of 'race to first' which is pushing ops harder to open the park early.

Additionally it would allow Disney to better regulate how many BGs are distributed each day... so they can increase or decrease their float multiple times a day as needed.

AND.. the system would be compatible with morning EMH...
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
No, it still means you don't know how to communicate your issue and instead make up other stuff that isn't correct.



And this is where you keep screwing up. It has nothing to do with being a local - your point is about who has a car or not. Plenty of resort guests have cars! The decisive point in your argument is who is using Disney transportation or sourcing their own. It has nothing to do with the split you've tried to argue.
I didn't make up anything that wasn't correct. Everything I said is true. You are right that there are resort guests who have a car and they also have the same advantage as locals, but most resort guests do not. I also think you missed some of my earlier posts (unless they were in a different thread, and they may have been), because I was talking about the issue well before I mentioned anything about locals or transportation or anything else. Those were just other things that popped into my mind as potential issues for a lot of guests.

I have no idea why you're so aggressive about this. You're coming across as a jerk. The only thing I can think of is that you are a local and you think I'm attacking locals, which was not at all what I intended with that throwaway line.

As for your earlier post -- yep, that's exactly right. I'm in complete agreement with you there. Everything about the system you lay out would be a significant improvement for both Disney operations AND guests over what how it's currently done.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I didn't make up anything that wasn't correct. Everything I said is true.
A broken clock is also correct twice a day.. it doesn't make it right.

What you're pushing for has value.. it's just much of what you were trying to support it with was wrong.
 

DarkMetroid567

Well-Known Member
It's no easier for a local to be there... you've got a beef with Disney Transportation and somehow are extrapolating this into a locals vs resort guests thing. If you don't like Disney's transportation constraints for a situation - DON'T USE IT. Nothing is preventing you from hopping into a car, or calling a taxi, or an uber, and getting there on your own accord.

"Disney transportation sucks" is not "its easier for locals" garbage. It's simply people needing to acknowledge Disney's transportation is not as time efficient as someone providing their own transportation. This has nothing to do with RoTR, BGs, opening times, whatever.. it's just simple common sense. In isolation and in low scale, having your own vehicle is going to usually be more efficient than a interval based bus.

It's amazing people are huffing and puffing about this WEEKS later, stressing over how to plan, etc.. when a simple one-time $15 uber ride eliminates 100% of the grief.

You're dreaming up new complaints and comparisons.. trying to label things.. and just getting it all wrong because you can't figure out how to focus in on what your actual conflict is.

7am or 8am or any am - it doesn't make a difference when your actual complaint is the amount of extra time you have to account for because you are relying on the free Disney buses.

Instead of buying one over-priced t-shirt... spare yourself all this grief and get a car/taxi/uber this ONE TIME to deal with RoTR access.
the argument still has merit. nothing of what you're saying is wrong, per se, but he's essentially stating that the issue Exists. disney transporation has never been tested as to arrive at a specific early time that could literally be a make-it-or-break-it scenario if you miss that time, so the inconvenience is noteworthy.

for example, I hate taxis and ubers. I'd rather use the disney transport any chance I get. as a guest, the system inconveniences me because disney buses honestly DO suck. while I may be be acting a bit entitled, it's not an uncommon complaint, and one that Disney has definitely taken account of.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
for example, I hate taxis and ubers. I'd rather use the disney transport any chance I get. as a guest, the system inconveniences me because disney buses honestly DO suck. while I may be be acting a bit entitled, it's not an uncommon complaint, and one that Disney has definitely taken account of.
to be filed under 'disney transportation complaints'...

Not "why locals have it better than resort guests"
 

djkidkaz

Well-Known Member
Board groups are easier for locals then fastpass. A local can turn up at Park opening on there day off and get one. If it was fastpass they would all be gone 60 plus days out.
I am local and would disagree. I'd much rather sit at home the night before watching Netflix and just refresh the app for an hour until a fastness pops up for tomorrow. I just take whatever time it is and then build my day around that pass.

Boarding groups require me waking up early and there is no guarantee that I will get an early group. So now I may be stuck at Studios all day if I get a group in the 100's, or the ride is down with issues and there is no guarantee that a backup boarding group will be called. I also don't want to arrive at 7am, get a group in the 100's, have to drive home and come back hours later.

Get a fastpass from the comfort of my couch, watch the blogs during the day to see if the ride is functioning properly before I leave to studios, do my fastpass and be on my way. Much simpler.
 

disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
I think the concept of boarding groups in general is better, yes -- I just don't think the timing for acquiring a boarding group is ideal. I think it's easier for locals to be there at opening, especially since they moved the opening time of the park back to 7 AM. It would have be easier for resort guests if the opening time remained at 8. Using Disney transportation to get to a park is a crapshoot. Making the opening time so early means guests need to be out waiting for a bus by 6 or perhaps even earlier. I know I've had to wait 30+ minutes for a Disney bus before, and then there's usually 15-20 minutes of transit time, and then actually disembarking and walking to the entrance. It's definitely possible you could be at a bus stop at 6 AM and still not make it into the park until after 7.

Just splitting the boarding groups in half would be a big improvement. Half are available at park opening, the other half become available at noon or something like that.
The problem with splitting the groups is you’d still have the same amount of people early in the morning that you do now. Heck, we still see people arriving at 5am when they don’t need to. Everyone would still show up at the same time, if only to guarantee a “second chance” if they didn’t make the first window. Then you’d have half of the people, that were in the park bright and early, be told they didn’t make a group and they need to come back in 5 hours if they want a chance to try again.

Then you would have those in the morning group inevitably miss both windows, but maybe would have gotten group 60 in the morning had the app allowed it. I don’t know, that feels worse to me and a big waste for people holding onto the “maybe we can get a group to maybe ride” for half their day. At least now you know if you have a chance or not to ride by 9am, if not earlier.
 
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scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
This entire debate can be clarified as
I do not want to get up, so save me a pass I can get in the afternoon.
Transportation issues are just a strawman to divert the argument.
Fairness to locals or resort guests is yet another strawman to diver the argument.

Fairness is first come first served at park opening. Everyone has the same opportunity, they just have to decide if the opportunity cost is worth the reward. But it does not lean in anyone's favor. Unfairness would be releasing some of the boarding groups at 7 am and then maybe more later and maybe even more even later. What would fair about someone who took the effort to get there at 7 am and not getting a boarding group in favor of someone who slept in, enjoyed breakfast at their resort, then sauntered over to DHS at 11 and getting a coveted boarding group?
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
This entire debate can be clarified as
I do not want to get up, so save me a pass I can get in the afternoon.
Transportation issues are just a strawman to divert the argument.
Fairness to locals or resort guests is yet another strawman to diver the argument.

Fairness is first come first served at park opening. Everyone has the same opportunity, they just have to decide if the opportunity cost is worth the reward. But it does not lean in anyone's favor. Unfairness would be releasing some of the boarding groups at 7 am and then maybe more later and maybe even more even later. What would fair about someone who took the effort to get there at 7 am and not getting a boarding group in favor of someone who slept in, enjoyed breakfast at their resort, then sauntered over to DHS at 11 and getting a coveted boarding group?
What's fair about someone who is there at 7 AM and still doesn't get a boarding group because their app wasn't working properly? Or because everyone else just managed to get one before their request went through?

It has nothing to do with fairness. The current system isn't "fair", and the system we've been discussing wouldn't be "fair" either. There is no "fair" in this process. But handing out all boarding groups at 7 AM is less equitable than other ways, and it's certainly not the most efficient way for Disney operations to run the ride.

Also, it's not first come first served. That would be if you lined up outside the park, and then the first person in line was the first person on the ride. That isn't how this works.
 
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disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
What's fair about someone who is there at 7 AM and still doesn't get a boarding group because their app wasn't working properly? Or because everyone else just managed to get one before their request went through?

It has nothing to do with fairness. The current system isn't "fair", and the system we've been discussing wouldn't be "fair" either. There is no "fair" in this process. But handing out all boarding groups at 7 AM is less equitable than other ways, and it's certainly not the most efficient way for Disney operations to run the ride.

Also, it's not first come first served. That would be if you lined up outside the park, and then the first person in line was the first person on the ride. That isn't how this works at all.
I think it’s more fair than unlocking groups throughout the day. The true first come first serve process is how the ride operated the first two weeks. The problem with this is people were arriving earlier and earlier. It wasn’t sustainable so they had to change it to discourage crazy early arrivals. What they have now is a first come first serve process, to an extent. You’re still in a better position to receive a pass if you’re in the park before open than if you’re not.

I don’t think there’s an easy answer here and none of them are perfect. Every solution that’s been discussed on this board I’m sure has been discussed by Disney operations.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
This entire debate can be clarified as
I do not want to get up, so save me a pass I can get in the afternoon.
Transportation issues are just a strawman to divert the argument.
Fairness to locals or resort guests is yet another strawman to diver the argument.

Fairness is first come first served at park opening. Everyone has the same opportunity, they just have to decide if the opportunity cost is worth the reward. But it does not lean in anyone's favor. Unfairness would be releasing some of the boarding groups at 7 am and then maybe more later and maybe even more even later. What would fair about someone who took the effort to get there at 7 am and not getting a boarding group in favor of someone who slept in, enjoyed breakfast at their resort, then sauntered over to DHS at 11 and getting a coveted boarding group?
Man, between this and the half-a-year planning necessary for ride and restaurant reservations, WHAT FUN a WDW trip is! Pay exorbitant amounts for a hotel and a ticket and then compete tooth-and-nail with all the other saps for a chance to actually ride something! Relaxation! Escapism! Let’s all spit on the slugs who expected to eat breakfast on vacation!

Seriously, do folks not see how absurd this is for a leading vacation destination? The fact that someone could unironically write what you did above is the sign of a MASSIVE failure on WDWs part.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I think it’s more fair than unlocking groups throughout the day. The true first come first serve process is how the ride operated the first two weeks. The problem with this is people were arriving earlier and earlier. It wasn’t sustainable so they had to change it to discourage crazy early arrivals. What they have now is a first come first serve process, to an extent. You’re still in a better position to receive a pass if you’re in the park before open than if you’re not.

I don’t think there’s an easy answer here and none of them are perfect. Every solution that’s been discussed on this board I’m sure has been discussed by Disney operations.
I think progressively opening up groups multiple times throughout the day is more fair than assigning them all at opening, but I realize it's subjective opinion. And yes, I personally don't want to have to get up super early just to be there at 7 AM for the chance to get a boarding group, which isn't a pressing concern (although I do think it's a bit unfair to expect anyone to get up that early in the morning while on vacation when riding isn't even guaranteed). But there are a lot of Disney guests who would have difficulty getting there that early for reasons that aren't fully in their control.

Either way, I do think it would be easier for Disney to manage the ride if they didn't assign them all immediately. They would be able to see how things are going for the day and adjust accordingly, which would also mean they'd have to hand out less FastPasses on the slow days. That would then help things move along more quickly in the following days when they don't have to accommodate a bunch of FastPasses.
 

RobWDW1971

Well-Known Member
Man, between this and the half-a-year planning necessary for ride and restaurant reservations, WHAT FUN a WDW trip is! Pay exorbitant amounts for a hotel and a ticket and then compete tooth-and-nail with all the other saps for a chance to actually ride something! Relaxation! Escapism! Let’s all spit on the slugs who expected to eat breakfast on vacation!

Seriously, do folks not see how absurd this is for a leading vacation destination? The fact that someone could unironically write what you did above is the sign of a MASSIVE failure on WDWs part.
I was thinking about this the last time I was at WDW and watching parents frantically pounding their cels booking FP’s, dragging their kids aggressively from rope drop to Dwarfs Mine Train, elbowing people to get a parade spot, etc.

Is this new dynamic also being caused by adults that are now are more passionate about rides or their determination to get their money’s worth?

When I was a kid, it seemed very few parents were passionate about going on the rides and the experience was driven by the kids and what they wanted to do. Now it seems the poor kids are being dragged around while the parents are in full commando mode to see and do everything.

The idea that my dad would get out of bed when it was dark to go to an amusement park to get me a ticket to ride a ride is insane.

Just an odd dynamic to watch these “power parents” while the kids seem happy on their phone and going with the flow and not really too upset if they don’t get to ride Peter Pan.
 

disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
I think progressively opening up groups multiple times throughout the day is more fair than assigning them all at opening, but I realize it's subjective opinion. And yes, I personally don't want to have to get up super early just to be there at 7 AM for the chance to get a boarding group, which isn't a pressing concern (although I do think it's a bit unfair to expect anyone to get up that early in the morning while on vacation when riding isn't even guaranteed). But there are a lot of Disney guests who would have difficulty getting there that early for reasons that aren't fully in their control.

Either way, I do think it would be easier for Disney to manage the ride if they didn't assign them all immediately. They would be able to see how things are going for the day and adjust accordingly, which would also mean they'd have to hand out less FastPasses on the slow days. That would then help things move along more quickly in the following days when they don't have to accommodate a bunch of FastPasses.
To be fair, I’m pretty sure Friday was the first day since the new year that they didn’t call all normal groups. It’s not like they are having to hand out fast passes several times a week.

At the end of the day it is what it is. We’re all playing by Disney’s rules and adaptation is key.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
It's no easier for a local to be there... you've got a beef with Disney Transportation and somehow are extrapolating this into a locals vs resort guests thing. If you don't like Disney's transportation constraints for a situation - DON'T USE IT. Nothing is preventing you from hopping into a car, or calling a taxi, or an uber, and getting there on your own accord.

"Disney transportation sucks" is not "its easier for locals" garbage. It's simply people needing to acknowledge Disney's transportation is not as time efficient as someone providing their own transportation. This has nothing to do with RoTR, BGs, opening times, whatever.. it's just simple common sense. In isolation and in low scale, having your own vehicle is going to usually be more efficient than a interval based bus.

It's amazing people are huffing and puffing about this WEEKS later, stressing over how to plan, etc.. when a simple one-time $15 uber ride eliminates 100% of the grief.

You're dreaming up new complaints and comparisons.. trying to label things.. and just getting it all wrong because you can't figure out how to focus in on what your actual conflict is.

7am or 8am or any am - it doesn't make a difference when your actual complaint is the amount of extra time you have to account for because you are relying on the free Disney buses.

Instead of buying one over-priced t-shirt... spare yourself all this grief and get a car/taxi/uber this ONE TIME to deal with RoTR access.
Doing something for yourself will almost always be more efficient than waiting on others. It’s a fact of life.
 
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