Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

[TJJohn12]

I thought that the screens here were not intended to be flat (at least in the demo video from d23) but would be projection mapping on layered flats and other surfaces, to give motion and depth... that sounds like even a step up in complexity over some of the scenes in Mystic Manor - particularly the whirlwind. If they can do that fantastic scene with four white walls, four projectors, and a few fans... this ride should be amazing.

 

[Hawg G]

I thought that the screens here were not intended to be flat (at least in the demo video from d23) but would be projection mapping on layered flats and other surfaces, to give motion and depth... that sounds like even a step up in complexity over some of the scenes in Mystic Manor - particularly the whirlwind. If they can do that fantastic scene with four white walls, four projectors, and a few fans... this ride should be amazing.

There were people posting concept vids of multiple layered projections, but I don't think those were from Disney. What I saw was some amazing stuff, only doable for a single pair of eyes. You could maybe do similar from a car of eyes, but certainly not from multiple cars full of eyes.

 

[TJJohn12]

There were people posting concept vids of multiple layered projections, but I don't think those were from Disney. What I saw was some amazing stuff, only doable for a single pair of eyes. You could maybe do similar from a car of eyes, but certainly not from multiple cars full of eyes.

The b-roll here from the mock-up location shot with a imagineer smartphone (under Kevin’s narration, not the one he paused for which he says was the first test) sure as heck looks to be projection mapping on multiple layers of flats (the trees, the roller coaster, etc.).

 

[mickEblu]

They can call it whatever. I see large rooms, that will contain 4 cars at a time, so 4 points of convergence. I suspect the walls will be almost all projected. Besides the starting tunnel, which may have something unique on the right of the vehicles, or that could be where the Goofy engine returns to the next group. The rest of the rooms seem just open rooms.

As I said, perhaps some moving walls aren't shown, but they are very limited in what they can do with multiple vehicles. They can hype all they want, and they will. They have you spouting out 2.5D just like they trained you.

They will convince you 2.5D is better than 3D that Ratatouille has. Even though 2.5D is nothing but a term created by a bunch of marketers in a room one day that may or may not have contained an Imagineer

We'll see. It will be a neat ride, but I think it will end up like Smugglers Run. A ride everyone thought was going to blow their minds, that reality has slowly crept in and beat down PR speak, and folks now have much more controlled expectations of it. Some even expecting it to be pretty non-mind blowing

I’m not sure I (or we) have enough info to agree with you on MMRR and I hope you re wrong but I’m convinced that the Falcon ride is a D ticket in E tickets clothing.

 

[Hawg G]

The b-roll here from the mock-up location shot with a imagineer smartphone (under Kevin’s narration, not the one he paused for which he says was the first test) sure as heck looks to be projection mapping on multiple layers of flats (the trees, the roller coaster, etc.).

If you look at the layout, and use it's scale (the Building is 200 top to bottom, and 300 left to right. So, take the Twister room, it is about 40x60. If the PR pics are to be believed, the cars are 2 rows of 4, and probably have at least an operating envelope of 10 x 10. But usually even more than that. So at least 30 x 30 of that 40 x 60 is the 4 cars. You can see the two lanes for the cars leaving the stampede, with something in between them, is about 40 feet wide. Add in space from the walls, and the fact that it is really a bit smaller, and some corners are curved, and you just don't have much extra room in there for other surfaces all over.

Point being, I just don't see many of these spaces having room for other surfaces for depth. And objects in the middle would be odd, since the projector putting light on it will also put light on you as you go in front of it, so it simply won't work. What is lined up perfectly for one car for it to look cool will look completely off for the other 3 cars. The multiple layers and depth are likely EXACTLY like Cinderella's Castle. THere are multiple surfaces, curves, and different layers. The projections will be mapped to the wall, and maybe just one section will change, and maybe that section looks a look closer to you, but there can't be much depth, or you would see shadows between them. Just like sitting far to the side of the castle.

It's going to be a good ride. But Disney doesn't possess magical powers. Very little they've done for 20 years has been ground breaking. SR's crazy PR pitches are being pounded by reality, and so will this and RotR. There is only so much than can be done with multiple cars. That's the whole reason Walt had the Omnimovers invented, so he could COMPLETELY control your point of view. Well, trackless vehicles are completely different. They have huge plusses, but they remove that POV control when done in large groups instead of one at a time like Spider-man (yeah, I know, it isn't trackless).

 

[Hawg G]

One thing I do find odd is the part where all 4 cars are separate. The layout of that room is odd, so taking the time for the cars to get in place, see the video, back out, and leave is going to be a lot. If that is just 30 seconds, which wouldn't give much time for the movie, unless they face the incoming cars North so they can't see the cars leaving South, gaining some overlap.

There are 10 scenes, but are numbered as only 6 different ones. However, even with 1 minute dispatches of 24 people, that would be an hourly capacity of 1440, which isn't awful. My guess is closer to 45 second "scenes" boosting theoretical capacity to ~2200. And the scene counting is truly "scenes, meaning the ride has 6 x 45 second "scenes" for a 4:30 ride time. Which seems right, but it also means you'll be cooking through scene 6 Culvert/Big City Snarl/Dance Studio.

This ride is going to be crazy as hell, with such huge theme changes from room to room, and not a lot of time in each room.

 

[TJJohn12]

If you look at the layout, and use it's scale (the Building is 200 top to bottom, and 300 left to right. So, take the Twister room, it is about 40x60. If the PR pics are to be believed, the cars are 2 rows of 4, and probably have at least an operating envelope of 10 x 10. But usually even more than that. So at least 30 x 30 of that 40 x 60 is the 4 cars. You can see the two lanes for the cars leaving the stampede, with something in between them, is about 40 feet wide. Add in space from the walls, and the fact that it is really a bit smaller, and some corners are curved, and you just don't have much extra room in there for other surfaces all over.

Point being, I just don't see many of these spaces having room for other surfaces for depth. And objects in the middle would be odd, since the projector putting light on it will also put light on you as you go in front of it, so it simply won't work. What is lined up perfectly for one car for it to look cool will look completely off for the other 3 cars. The multiple layers and depth are likely EXACTLY like Cinderella's Castle. THere are multiple surfaces, curves, and different layers. The projections will be mapped to the wall, and maybe just one section will change, and maybe that section looks a look closer to you, but there can't be much depth, or you would see shadows between them. Just like sitting far to the side of the castle.

It's going to be a good ride. But Disney doesn't possess magical powers. Very little they've done for 20 years has been ground breaking. SR's crazy PR pitches are being pounded by reality, and so will this and RotR. There is only so much than can be done with multiple cars. That's the whole reason Walt had the Omnimovers invented, so he could COMPLETELY control your point of view. Well, trackless vehicles are completely different. They have huge plusses, but they remove that POV control when done in large groups instead of one at a time like Spider-man (yeah, I know, it isn't trackless).

I’m getting what you’re saying now, but I’m not as reticent I guess. I’m expecting some lens voodoo and extreme keystoning to help protect projection paths from being hit by the ride vehicle envelope. It sounds hokey, but I’m expecting they’ll do it all with mirrors (as the saying goes).

Though I’m actually not sure that this is “exactly” like Cinderella Castle. Cindy is a complex 3-D canvas, so projection on the surface needs to be complex and meaningful from all angles. And HEA failed at that - it still sucks from anywhere but dead-on in the Hub.

But I’m expecting that the lack of dimensionality will be a feature not a bug here. With contoured flats as projection surfaces, it drops the necessity of multiple angle projection to make it look good. With a deep enough saturation, even a slightly oblique angle on a flat will be meaningful and vibrant.

I’m also expecting the storytelling (at least as I’m reading these layouts) to be less Rat-style “all vehicles facing one screen together” and instead each vehicle having its own focus in the scene - or swapping focus as they move through. Marni’s description of “ballet” seems to hint at vehicles shuffling within each show scene, meaning that a set of flats can either loop or - more to my guess - show something different but meaningful to each vehicle as it focuses on it.

 

[SaveDinosaur]

Or rather not worth what was lost for it.

Horizons?

 

[Hawg G]

I’m getting what you’re saying now, but I’m not as reticent I guess. I’m expecting some lens voodoo and extreme keystoning to help protect projection paths from being hit by the ride vehicle envelope. It sounds hokey, but I’m expecting they’ll do it all with mirrors (as the saying goes).

Though I’m actually not sure that this is “exactly” like Cinderella Castle. Cindy is a complex 3-D canvas, so projection on the surface needs to be complex and meaningful from all angles. And HEA failed at that - it still sucks from anywhere but dead-on in the Hub.

But I’m expecting that the lack of dimensionality will be a feature not a bug here. With contoured flats as projection surfaces, it drops the necessity of multiple angle projection to make it look good. With a deep enough saturation, even a slightly oblique angle on a flat will be meaningful and vibrant.

I’m also expecting the storytelling (at least as I’m reading these layouts) to be less Rat-style “all vehicles facing one screen together” and instead each vehicle having its own focus in the scene - or swapping focus as they move through. Marni’s description of “ballet” seems to hint at vehicles shuffling within each show scene, meaning that a set of flats can either loop or - more to my guess - show something different but meaningful to each vehicle as it focuses on it.

The reason you think HEA sucks is because I'm pretty sure there are only projectors from straight on, and I'd be amazed if they overlap much. That's the whole point, and why there is only so much this ride can do. The light comes from one source. Yeah, they could have projectors on the side projecting tiny little slivers on the sides of objects, but I just don't see it happening.

The Ballet is from Pooh's Hunny Hunt. In the main show scene at the beginning, your group splits up a lot from side to side as you go through the 3 sub sections. Then there is the Huffleumps and Woozles room where it is just chaos with all the cars moving around from one effect spot to another, and there is a car with characters in it (non moving). However, you spend a lot of time in the H&W room. WIth the layout, and scenes listed, you aren't going to be in the dance studio very long at all, and it's not very big, so the "ballet" looks to be brief.

 

[180º]

I’m not sure I (or we) have enough info to agree with you on MMRR and I hope you re wrong but I’m convinced that the Falcon ride is a D ticket in E tickets clothing.

This is true, IMO.

We’ll see about MMRR, but the blueprint only has me more excited, if anything!

 

[peter11435]

The reason you think HEA sucks is because I'm pretty sure there are only projectors from straight on, and I'd be amazed if they overlap much. That's the whole point, and why there is only so much this ride can do. The light comes from one source. Yeah, they could have projectors on the side projecting tiny little slivers on the sides of objects, but I just don't see it happening.

The Ballet is from Pooh's Hunny Hunt. In the main show scene at the beginning, your group splits up a lot from side to side as you go through the 3 sub sections. Then there is the Huffleumps and Woozles room where it is just chaos with all the cars moving around from one effect spot to another, and there is a car with characters in it (non moving). However, you spend a lot of time in the H&W room. WIth the layout, and scenes listed, you aren't going to be in the dance studio very long at all, and it's not very big, so the "ballet" looks to be brief.

You sure do assume a lot from a single diagram...

 

[mickEblu]

This is true, IMO.

We’ll see about MMRR, but the blueprint only has me more excited, if anything!

Have you or anyone you know been on it? Or are you just piecing together the info the way I am? It makes sense if you think about it. I knew 2 new E tickets AND the biggest/ most immersive land of all time would be too good to be true. It would have been like Wizarding World and Diagon Alley opening together in the same park with FJ and the new Hagrid ride. I would have said Gringotts but it doesn’t sound like that’s a real E ticket.

I think Mickey will be the best ride of the 3!

 

[Hawg G]

You sure do assume a lot from a single diagram...

It's not assuming. It's how rides work. Each "scene" has to be teh same length. This diagram clearly shows the waterfall scene as the longest, and it is followed by 3 short scenes A/B/C that all must total the same length as all other scenes. Ride times have come down to a paltry 4-5 minutes. Based on the other trackless dark rides.

It doesn't take much assuming at all, really.

 

[peter11435]

It's not assuming. It's how rides work. Each "scene" has to be teh same length. This diagram clearly shows the waterfall scene as the longest, and it is followed by 3 short scenes A/B/C that all must total the same length as all other scenes. Ride times have come down to a paltry 4-5 minutes. Based on the other trackless dark rides.

It doesn't take much assuming at all, really.

Like I said. You are assuming a lot. And clearly fundamentally misunderstanding ride design.

 

[Hawg G]

Like I said. You are assuming a lot. And clearly fundamentally misunderstanding ride design.

Oh, I am. So, explain to me what I don't understand

 

[TJJohn12]

The reason you think HEA sucks is because I'm pretty sure there are only projectors from straight on, and I'd be amazed if they overlap much. That's the whole point, and why there is only so much this ride can do. The light comes from one source. Yeah, they could have projectors on the side projecting tiny little slivers on the sides of objects, but I just don't see it happening.

I actually think we’re agreeing. There will not need to be side projection because the surfaces being projected on are 2D. But a 2D projection surfaces - being less complex - actually has a broader angle where the image will be visible and still make narrative sense. There aren’t turrets and crenellations to start disrupting the projection.

The Ballet is from Pooh's Hunny Hunt. In the main show scene at the beginning, your group splits up a lot from side to side as you go through the 3 sub sections. Then there is the Huffleumps and Woozles room where it is just chaos with all the cars moving around from one effect spot to another, and there is a car with characters in it (non moving). However, you spend a lot of time in the H&W room. WIth the layout, and scenes listed, you aren't going to be in the dance studio very long at all, and it's not very big, so the "ballet" looks to be brief.

Nope. Ballet came directly from @marni1971 - who has *seen* the path envelopes - when he mentioned car ballets here:

The train splits in every show room. One room has a ballet (with a fifth.... thing), one room you pair off, then another ballet, then each car gets its own screen, two more ballet splits, an out of position group, and then the regroup.

It helps if you know the path envelopes

You’re taking the word ballet very literally. A “dance” of ride vehicles can happen more places than a dance studio.

It's not assuming. It's how rides work. Each "scene" has to be teh same length. This diagram clearly shows the waterfall scene as the longest, and it is followed by 3 short scenes A/B/C that all must total the same length as all other scenes. Ride times have come down to a paltry 4-5 minutes. Based on the other trackless dark rides.

It doesn't take much assuming at all, really.

I think on this front (the experience length), there is a key assumption you’ve made: that each scene is a vehicle zone. The zones only need be the same length. And the one zone that controls that length will be the tunnel zone - which I’m expecting from the concept art to be a static “conversation” with the Mickey and Minnie AAs as they drive alongside the train, the walls animated to make it look like you’re still moving. Then each zone will need to match the length of that conversation. One scene could be a zone. A combination of scenes could be a zone. We don’t know yet.

 

[NormC]

It is amazing what they can do with projection mapping.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

The ballet thing confused me. I’ve seen the paths too, but it’s weird because there’s no flow diagram in the plan I saw. It’s just different spots where the vehicles would go, and it confuses me because I have no idea what direction/position the vehicles would be in while they transverse this “ballet”

 

[peter11435]

Oh, I am. So, explain to me what I don't understand

You are inferring a lot more than justified from a single simple diagram with little detail. Your understanding of ride timing is also far too simplistic and ignores past precedent established with dozens of other attractions including the very attraction this one is replacing.

 

[Hawg G]

I actually think we’re agreeing. There will not need to be side projection because the surfaces being projected on are 2D. But a 2D projection surfaces - being less complex - actually has a broader angle where the image will be visible and still make narrative sense. There aren’t turrets and crenellations to start disrupting the projection.



Nope. Ballet came directly from @marni1971 - who has *seen* the path envelopes - when he mentioned car ballets here:



You’re taking the word ballet very literally. A “dance” of ride vehicles can happen more places than a dance studio.



I think on this front (the experience length), there is a key assumption you’ve made: that each scene is a vehicle zone. The zones only need be the same length. And the one zone that controls that length will be the tunnel zone - which I’m expecting from the concept art to be a static “conversation” with the Mickey and Minnie AAs as they drive alongside the train, the walls animated to make it look like you’re still moving. Then each zone will need to match the length of that conversation. One scene could be a zone. A combination of scenes could be a zone. We don’t know yet.

The ballet isn't just the dance studio. Pooh has different levels of "ballet". One room of chaos movement. Then in a few others the cars change position, one will switch sides, one will slow down for another to get in front. It's a constant ballet.

The layout clearly shows the scenes. Labeling multiple parts of them. The waterfall scene is essentially one scene, with the movement in and out of the cubbies as A and C, and then the show video as B. So that is the long scene, since the cars must be gone before the room opens for the next batch of cars.

Look at the Mystic Manor layout shown above. It shows lots of scenes. HOWEVER, note how only the first and last scene show four cars, and the rest show 2. Then watch a POV. The first and last scenes are about 50 seconds long. All the others are 25. So each PAIR make a scene, as far as the ride timing goes