"Mean" Cast Members

[TchaikovskyVCID]

Seriously, if I start off in the group of CMs that every other CM looks down on, and work my way up...why can't I do it? I'll understand what it's like to be in the shoes of the "scrubs", up to being a manager.

I agree, I was being sincere

 

[TiggersPooh]

To the two of you, good luck with your Blue ID dreams. I'm aiming a bit higher and less mousish :lol:

Dreams can always change...once youre a manager you can always go higher...or else where.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

One of the things that makes something "normal" is if it's something you see fairly commonly. You state that you see this on "every visit". So maybe it IS normal and CMs should realize that rather than whine about it.

You've raised a number of good points and viewpoints in this bumpy discussion.

You however do yourself a disservice by playing your semantics games mixed in with the proffering of your experience and professionalism.

To use your logic, observing this event twice a day in a sampling of > 10,000 people, while it stands out to me as significant (because an unruly child knocked over my wine glass while running through a restaurant or hit me across the face with a pirate sword, or having to push a family member out of the way of an 8 year old running with his 4 year old brother in a stroller at full speed) is statistically insignificant, so does not fit any definition of "normal" that I understand. This is a far cry from being bumped into accidently by a stroller, or have some child turn the wrong way and run into you.

PS: Being in an urban area, I get daily reports of murders, gang violence, corrupt politicians (yea, I'm in NJ). Due to the apparent regularity, does that make these events "normal", and if you can somehow define that as normal, does normal provide any justification for the actions being acceptable, tolerable, justifiable?

 

[robynchic]

Let's put things into perspective...

What is normal? Is everything in life "normal"? I don't think anyone ever has a "normal" day. Any day.

It's like the question "Do attitudes shape society, or does society shape attitudes?"

Or, more simply put- what came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[Merlin]

You've raised a number of good points and viewpoints in this bumpy discussion.

You however do yourself a disservice by playing your semantics games mixed in with the proffering of your experience and professionalism.

To use your logic, observing this event twice a day in a sampling of > 10,000 people, while it stands out to me as significant (because an unruly child knocked over my wine glass while running through a restaurant or hit me across the face with a pirate sword, or having to push a family member out of the way of an 8 year old running with his 4 year old brother in a stroller at full speed) is statistically insignificant, so does not fit any definition of "normal" that I understand. This is a far cry from being bumped into accidently by a stroller, or have some child turn the wrong way and run into you.

I admit I was being a tad facecious (sp) with my "what is normal" argument. But I stand behind the underlying point that I was making...If something does happen with surprising frequency (which was my understand of what you were trying to convey by stating that you see it on "every visit"), then I think there's a concept the CMs need to embrace, for their own sanity. The concept has to do with recognizing those things in your job and life which can change versus those which you cannot change. If an event occurs very frequently and it is something that you cannot change, then you have a choice. You can either learn to deal with it within the parameters of the job you agreed to perform, or you can decide that it's too much to deal with (and by the way, there's no disgrace in reaching that realization about one's self) and move on. To me, the worst thing a person can do is continue to "put up" with it, while complaining, whining, being a martyr and using it as an excuse to be rude to guests. Because in actuality, that's not really "putting up" with it at all, is it?

 

[Merlin]

Let's put things into perspective...

What is normal? Is everything in life "normal"? I don't think anyone ever has a "normal" day. Any day.

It's like the question "Do attitudes shape society, or does society shape attitudes?"

Or, more simply put- what came first, the chicken or the egg?

Huh??? :veryconfu

Do they do "random" drug testing at Disney by any chance? :hammer:

 

[robynchic]

Huh??? :veryconfu

Do they do "random" drug testing at Disney by any chance? :hammer:

Yes, they do, if they have reasonable doubt.
And my question is a simple philosophical question. Has the stupid college student/seasonal CM finally outsmarted the elitist maven (Yiddish for "know-it-all")?

 

[pluto77]

Well, where I come from, we call that a cynic. It's sad that you find it so hard to believe. That only shows you are incapable of doing it. Maybe you need to read some books or take some classes (or counseling) on how to redirect your anger and frustration. Lots of people are able to do it just fine. And as I've stated many times already on this thread, clearly if the guests are really as horrible as everyone's making them out to be, then MOST CMs must be good at it too. Unfortunately, none of those CMs seem to be posting on this thread.

Obviously you missed my point. Why do I need counseling just because I find it hard to believe that you've never ever taken your frustration out of somebody else? Everybody's human, and everybody gets angry and makes mistakes. I never said that it's right to take out your frustrations on someone else, I was just saying I'm sure it happens unintentionally sometimes rather if it's in your tone of voice or something that slipped out.

 

[Connor002]

Originally Posted by robynchic
Or, more simply put- what came first, the chicken or the egg?

The chicken came first. Eggs develpoed later to protect offspring in the early stages of life.






That may have been a little off topic. :lookaroun

 

[pluto77]

The chicken came first. Eggs develpoed later to protect offspring in the early stages of life.






That may have been a little off topic. :lookaroun

I agree, I think the chicken came first. :wave:

 

[ClemsonTigger]

The concept has to do with recognizing those things in your job and life which can change versus those which you cannot change. If an event occurs very frequently and it is something that you cannot change, then you have a choice. - Merlin

Again, I agree with you 100%

then you

Huh???

Do they do "random" drug testing at Disney by any chance?

when the attempt at humor is totally lost in the context of the thread...

In your presentations, I'm sure you are always assessing your audience and tailoring your approach to meet their response. While I know you are doing that in this case, you are choosing to ignore a lot in an effort to prove your point.

You are not properly accounting for age impact in these situations, where a lack of perspective on options is reality.
You also fail to include the corporate responsibility while placing it all on the employee. What do you say to a corporation who make their expectations and vision and requirements clear, but fail to provide necessary resources to meet those criteria? Every corporation I know has lofty vision or credo or goals...without action, they are just words. Putting the onus on the individual is hiding from the corporate role.

The union role is a dehumanizing, socialistic one (while taking their cut off the top) that works directly against the goals of Disney. Combine that with significantly decreased training and lack of a support network, and you have a difficult situation. But yes, you are right, they can always just leave....

OK, mix into that a personal dream, I believe most CM's join Disney with the same hope for perfection that we expect in our vacation experience. The Dream and Wishes of Disney are sold, so maybe they enter just a little starry eyed. There are many positives that help to sustain during rough times, the fraternity, the wonderful positive experiences where you do actually touch and affect others lives. Those are drugs that allow you to overcome the negative.

You yourself asked, Isn't it positive to have Disney on your resume? Well, I thought so too, and moving away from FLA, I'm sure it is, but apparently others see a negative too.

I guess what I'm saying is that while we do have choices, you should know as well as anyone, that many don't realize that, and that while you have choice, there are also negatives that have to be absorbed. Even for the ex-CMs posting here, many maintain AP's and spend a lot of time in WDW, and would even consider going back under the right circumstances (makes for a little more complicated a psychological analysis, doesn't it) While I won't guess at putting labels on the situation, I do understand a mixture of love/hate in a life environment and appreciate their desire to embrace whats good, and try to address (possibly in less than effective ways) the problems. While these CM's can be painted to seem very negative, a good part of that is the inadequacy of communication in this medium, which again you know, so give them a break.

PS: One additional thought...Walt himself was considered by some to be at times a mean, "unfair" tyrant, and Michael Eisner...well....and still some of the best talent in the biz worked for them, tolerated them, went back to them after being fired....an interesting study...but there is something more there than simple choices and basic employment.

 

[TchaikovskyVCID]

I agree, I think the chicken came first. :wave:

and where did that original chicken come from?

 

[robynchic]

and where did that original chicken come from?

A DINOSAUR! :lol:

 

[Merlin]

Obviously you missed my point. Why do I need counseling just because I find it hard to believe that you've never ever taken your frustration out of somebody else? Everybody's human, and everybody gets angry and makes mistakes. I never said that it's right to take out your frustrations on someone else, I was just saying I'm sure it happens unintentionally sometimes rather if it's in your tone of voice or something that slipped out.

I agree we are all human and that's something people occasionally slip up and do. But most decent people also feel really bad about it once they've lost their temper or taken their frustrations out on someone. The CMs posting on this thread who do it seem to think it's perfectly okay and they don't express any regret for doing it.

 

[ConstanceIrene]

And the WORST guests are the ones that scrape together the money to stay in a deluxe hotel, with all these special things (character meals, special extras, etc). They EXPECT higher standards because they had to spend SO MUCH MONEY...when there are families that are just as happy staying at a value resort.[/QUOTE]

What makes these people so bad? Their expectations should be high. They are staying at WDW.

The first time I took my children to WDW it was after saving and not having a vacation for 15 years. We only had 5 days, but I wanted to stay in the Contemporary and have the best view. It was a marvelous vacation. Any expectations I had were met and exceeded by the CMs of the day. At no time, however, would I think that cast members of WDW would be less accommodating in a Value Resort.

 

[Merlin]

Again, I agree with you 100%

then you

when the attempt at humor is totally lost in the context of the thread...

In your presentations, I'm sure you are always assessing your audience and tailoring your approach to meet their response. While I know you are doing that in this case, you are choosing to ignore a lot in an effort to prove your point.

You are not properly accounting for age impact in these situations, where a lack of perspective on options is reality.
You also fail to include the corporate responsibility while placing it all on the employee. What do you say to a corporation who make their expectations and vision and requirements clear, but fail to provide necessary resources to meet those criteria? Every corporation I know has lofty vision or credo or goals...without action, they are just words. Putting the onus on the individual is hiding from the corporate role.

The union role is a dehumanizing, socialistic one (while taking their cut off the top) that works directly against the goals of Disney. Combine that with significantly decreased training and lack of a support network, and you have a difficult situation. But yes, you are right, they can always just leave....

OK, mix into that a personal dream, I believe most CM's join Disney with the same hope for perfection that we expect in our vacation experience. The Dream and Wishes of Disney are sold, so maybe they enter just a little starry eyed. There are many positives that help to sustain during rough times, the fraternity, the wonderful positive experiences where you do actually touch and affect others lives. Those are drugs that allow you to overcome the negative.

You yourself asked, Isn't it positive to have Disney on your resume? Well, I thought so too, and moving away from FLA, I'm sure it is, but apparently others see a negative too.

I guess what I'm saying is that while we do have choices, you should know as well as anyone, that many don't realize that, and that while you have choice, there are also negatives that have to be absorbed. Even for the ex-CMs posting here, many maintain AP's and spend a lot of time in WDW, and would even consider going back under the right circumstances (makes for a little more complicated a psychological analysis, doesn't it) While I won't guess at putting labels on the situation, I do understand a mixture of love/hate in a life environment and appreciate their desire to embrace whats good, and try to address (possibly in less than effective ways) the problems. While these CM's can be painted to seem very negative, a good part of that is the inadequacy of communication in this medium, which again you know, so give them a break.

PS: One additional thought...Walt himself was considered by some to be at times a mean, "unfair" tyrant, and Michael Eisner...well....and still some of the best talent in the biz worked for them, tolerated them, went back to them after being fired....an interesting study...but there is something more there than simple choices and basic employment.

You will get no argument from me that things need to change at the corporate level at Disney. But I'm not communicating with Disney corporate on this thread. I'm communicating with the CMs who seem disgruntled toward guests, of which I am one. So following the credo by which I live my life and conduct my day to day activities, I recognize that I cannot have any impact on what Disney corporate does, but I CAN express my opinion to the disgruntled CMs posting on this thread. If I were a human performance improvement consultant for Disney, you can bet I'd be analyzing all of the factors of job performance that come into play. But for this discussion, what we have focused on is the perceived "justification" on the part of CMs for being rude to guests. Lack of resources can inhibit performance, that is true. But if you think lack of resources is justification for being rude or taking frustrations out on someone, you ought to attend an HPI seminar. You'll learn it doesn't work that way.

As far as tailoring my message based on the age group of the audience, forgive me, but I see nothing wrong with dispensing some advice on a basic work ethic to younger folks. Do I seriously expect they will listen to and follow that advice? Probably not. But hopefully the message will get through to the more open-minded members reading this thread (and I believe there are many). As far as the others (the ones who whine and complain and feel it's perfectly okay to lash out at guests...their bread and butter), the only advice that I'd seriously hope they'll take is the part where I suggest they find another job. That's partially because I don't get a sense they possess the capacity to alter their outlook (or if they do possess the capacity, they simply don't care to, because after all, it's fun to be a martyr and say "poor me, look how hard I work and how much abuse I take for such little pay"). But largely, my intentions are self-serving. Quite frankly, I don't want to be the guest at the receiving end of their "guest service".

 

[Merlin]

Yes, they do, if they have reasonable doubt.
And my question is a simple philosophical question. Has the stupid college student/seasonal CM finally outsmarted the elitist maven (Yiddish for "know-it-all")?

I don't know if "outsmarted" would be the accurate way of putting it (but if that helps you sleep at night, I"ll give you that one).

btw, although it seems apparent that you meant it as an insult (which I believe is against rules of this online community, isn't it?), I actually consider it a compliment to be referred to as a know-it-all. So thanks! :wave:

 

[Mystic]

And the WORST guests are the ones that scrape together the money to stay in a deluxe hotel, with all these special things (character meals, special extras, etc). They EXPECT higher standards because they had to spend SO MUCH MONEY...when there are families that are just as happy staying at a value resort.

Nice standards you have there. For your information my mom and I are two of those guests that scrimp and save our money so that we can visit WDW every other year and stay in the DELUXE resort and enjoy Character meals. Just because we do doesn't mean we're two of the 'WORST' guests and I'm offended to be lumped in with them. We have never once taken our frustrations out on a CM, even when we had our Hoop-Dee-Doo ressie go missing when we checked in or when our film never showed up where it was supposed to. And yet we never once lost our tempers or complained and we always stay in the Wilderness Lodge, one of the DELUXE resorts.

 

[Merlin]

Nice standards you have there. For your information my mom and I are two of those guests that scrimp and save our money so that we can visit WDW every other year and stay in the DELUXE resort and enjoy Character meals. Just because we do doesn't mean we're two of the 'WORST' guests and I'm offended to be lumped in with them. We have never once taken our frustrations out on a CM, even when we had our Hoop-Dee-Doo ressie go missing when we checked in or when our film never showed up where it was supposed to. And yet we never once lost our tempers or complained and we always stay in the Wilderness Lodge, one of the DELUXE resorts.

I think that's the problem a lot of the "CMs with an attitude" have. They make assumptions that just because someone of a particular group gave them hell once, that means EVERYONE who falls into that category is going to be one of the "bad" guests. They don't even give the guest a chance. It's like the guy who posted the story earlier about the CM who was rude to his wife about the pin at Epcot. It's essentially the same mentality behind stereotyping.

 

[lawyergirl77]

Nice standards you have there. For your information my mom and I are two of those guests that scrimp and save our money so that we can visit WDW every other year and stay in the DELUXE resort and enjoy Character meals. Just because we do doesn't mean we're two of the 'WORST' guests and I'm offended to be lumped in with them. We have never once taken our frustrations out on a CM, even when we had our Hoop-Dee-Doo ressie go missing when we checked in or when our film never showed up where it was supposed to. And yet we never once lost our tempers or complained and we always stay in the Wilderness Lodge, one of the DELUXE resorts.

Ditto. Out of all the broad generalizations that have flown back and forth (and before anyone jumps on me - on both sides) that was perhaps the most jaw dropping. I am totally not disagreeing that there are some positively horrific people who come through the gates. Confining them to one demographic, though, is just shortsighted and does nothing to address the real problem... :wave: