Marvel's Next Step

[JohnLocke]

It's been reported from different sources that Disney is at least considering buying out the Universal contract. Screamscape has claimed that they took it before the board. If they're willing to pay $4 billion for Marvel and then another $150 million for the distribution rights to The Avengers and Iron Man 3, I don't think they would hesitate much on buying out the Universal contract.

I don't really know what the advantage of them buying out the contract would be at this time, though. I'm sure they're probably trying to find a loophole to get something based off Iron Man or any other non-Universal characters, but with them already getting paid by Universal every year for the rights and not having to put up the expenses of ride development and operation, I don't think they'd probably think it's the best time to try to get the rights back.

 

[Krack]

Ok, look, I know you think I'm an idiot, but I'm not. I know that Marvel in the parks isn't going to happen any time soon. I'm not asking for a definite, I am asking why so many other folks seem to think they KNOW the definite. That's all.

Well, generally, because the contract is available to be read by all and the law in this area is fairly clear.

 

[lazyboy97o]

To the legal Naysayers, I get it, I really do, I just think that if Disney wanted to find a way to make it work, they could, maybe not for ten years, but eventually.

Unless their is an amendment not yet found, then the way would be to either get Universal on not maintaining the land or improper use, or make an offer to buy out the contract. Disney supposedly sent people over to try and get Universal on poor upkeep, but it was quickly realized that this avenue was fruitless.

 

[RSoxNo1]

For me, Marvel is another vehicle that can showcase Imagineering's capabilities. The stories lend themselves to theme park attractions, as Universal has proven (some better than others).

I'm typically not one for merchandise, but that's the biggest reason to have an attraction tie into a franchise - Disney has proven time and time again that the source material isn't necessarily going to dictate the quality level of the attraction, but what the source material really does is allow the theme park company to market the attraction.

People point to The Adventures of Spiderman as an excellent theme park attraction, but Curse of DARKastle at Busch Gardens Williamsburg accomplishes many of the same things without a known source material.

 

[AEfx]

I'll tell you what...I would happily be proven wrong on everything I've said about Uni having Marvel's properties tied up if the tradeoff was getting Six Flags to release the DC characters to replace Marvel Island.

A Metropolis-to-Gotham City walkthrough area (if handled seriously) would arouse every latent teenage fanboy wet dream currently slumbering in my subconscious. I've always preferred Superman and Batman to Spidey and Wolverine.

Six Flags over Georgia has Supes and Bats "areas" now, and they're just a joke...standard boring coasters, although the Batman queue is kind of cool. A real theme park could do so much more with the properties, though.

Ugh, it makes me cry to see what SF has done with those characters.

Marvel makes successful movies these days, and the big characters (notably Spiderman, Hulk, etc.) do definitely have cultural significance, but Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. are really part of the zeitgeist in a way the Marvel characters are not. I mean, my Grandma would know Spidey and Hulk, and probably know *of* the X-men (but not know any individually) but she sure as heck knows the DC characters.

The fact that all SF does with them is throw a few signs up around a off-the-shelf coaster and call it "themed". Makes me sick, really. There is one Batman simulator ride (that has had two videos, one using Batman Returns footage, one with animated) that has only been in like Australia and Europe that we don't have here (I would go anywhere in the US to see that - heck, even Texas! LOL).

If Universal ever got a hold of them...man oh man oh man. EPIC wouldn't begin to describe it. I can't even let myself think of what a true Batman ride would be...or a huge epic Spidey-style ride with all of the Big 3 together.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Marvel makes successful movies these days, and the big characters (notably Spiderman, Hulk, etc.) do definitely have cultural significance, but Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. are really part of the zeitgeist in a way the Marvel characters are not.

(Warning...serious thread drift ahead.) :lookaroun

I've spent some time thinking about this, and I come down on the side that the DC characters are Platonic and archetypal in a way the Marvel characters are not (and were never meant to be). Stan Lee and Co. tried to create interesting protagonists who were supposed to be made sympathetic and relatable by giving them everyday problems, while the heavy-hitters at DC practically descend from Mount Olympus. (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman = Hercules, Hades, Athena anyone?)

Whether Marvel's style leads to better storytelling or not is up for discussion, but I think DC's style speaks to more universal "types" and themes, which might cause them to resonate more with the culture at large, if not with serious comics fans. :shrug:

Plus, they're older. :lol:

 

[flavious27]

Sounds like there will be big announcements coming up then. Reading what he has said, it does sound like DL would have any marvel attractions because there is no more room left for a 5 or 10 acre miniland. Carsland used up the last of the space that dca had, and dl has been tapped out of space for awhile now.

WDW has the space in DHS to expand for a marvel land, though I think 30 acres would not be enough to showcase all of the different franchises that they bought. A Marvel land would be best in a :lookaroun new 5th gate :lookaroun .

 

[IWant2GoNow]

Sounds like there will be big announcements coming up then. Reading what he has said, it does sound like DL would have any marvel attractions because there is no more room left for a 5 or 10 acre miniland. Carsland used up the last of the space that dca had, and dl has been tapped out of space for awhile now.

WDW has the space in DHS to expand for a marvel land, though I think 30 acres would not be enough to showcase all of the different franchises that they bought. A Marvel land would be best in a :lookaroun new 5th gate :lookaroun .

Couldn't agree more with the last statement. It would be miraculous to see a faux skyline at the world as you walked through Spiderman's New York, leading up to Stark Enterprises, somewhere off in the distance would be the X Mansion... I know it would be far off, but I feel like this would be the best option to integrate the characters.

 

[flavious27]

Couldn't agree more with the last statement. It would be miraculous to see a faux skyline at the world as you walked through Spiderman's New York, leading up to Stark Enterprises, somewhere off in the distance would be the X Mansion... I know it would be far off, but I feel like this would be the best option to integrate the characters.

Agreed, to give these franchises justice, there needs to be enough space that they are close to each other but not jarringly close that the experience is wrecked. I think that the x mansion can be placed off in the corner, with a heavy forest theme to give the impression of distance from ny/Gotham.

 

[Mickey_777]

WDW has the space in DHS to expand for a marvel land, though I think 30 acres would not be enough to showcase all of the different franchises that they bought. A Marvel land would be best in a :lookaroun new 5th gate :lookaroun .

If Marvel were to be incorporated into Disney HOLLYWOOD Studios, wouldn't the MOVIE versions of the franchise (movie Spiderman, Captain America, Iron man, Fantastic 4, Hulk, and now Thor) be more "in theme" than the comic versions? I personally would welcome Marvel movie styled attractions rather than comic versions. Universal IoA has already got the comic style Marvel. Maybe with "movie Marvel" DHS could do something even while IoA has their attractions still active. I feel like if WDW used Marvel in the same way/style as Universal, it would feel too much like being at IoA and not like something new at WDW. That would suck. Bring the movie versions. Anybody know if the the Marvel Movie franchises fall under all that mumbo jumbo about IoA being the only park with rights to Marvel this side of the Mississippi?

 

[lazyboy97o]

If Marvel were to be incorporated into Disney HOLLYWOOD Studios, wouldn't the MOVIE versions of the franchise (movie Spiderman, Captain America, Iron man, Fantastic 4, Hulk, and now Thor) be more "in theme" than the comic versions? I personally would welcome Marvel movie styled attractions rather than comic versions. Universal IoA has already got the comic style Marvel. Maybe with "movie Marvel" DHS could do something even while IoA has their attractions still active. I feel like if WDW used Marvel in the same way/style as Universal, it would feel too much like being at IoA and not like something new at WDW. That would suck. Bring the movie versions. Anybody know if the the Marvel Movie franchises fall under all that mumbo jumbo about IoA being the only park with rights to Marvel this side of the Mississippi?

Read a couple of pages back. It was already discussed. The movie characters are not new characters and use of them would be a breach of Universal's exclusive rights.

 

[redshoesrock]

Ugh, it makes me cry to see what SF has done with those characters.

Marvel makes successful movies these days, and the big characters (notably Spiderman, Hulk, etc.) do definitely have cultural significance, but Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. are really part of the zeitgeist in a way the Marvel characters are not. I mean, my Grandma would know Spidey and Hulk, and probably know *of* the X-men (but not know any individually) but she sure as heck knows the DC characters.

The fact that all SF does with them is throw a few signs up around a off-the-shelf coaster and call it "themed". Makes me sick, really. There is one Batman simulator ride (that has had two videos, one using Batman Returns footage, one with animated) that has only been in like Australia and Europe that we don't have here (I would go anywhere in the US to see that - heck, even Texas! LOL).

If Universal ever got a hold of them...man oh man oh man. EPIC wouldn't begin to describe it. I can't even let myself think of what a true Batman ride would be...or a huge epic Spidey-style ride with all of the Big 3 together.

While I agree with your general sentiments about Six Flags and their (lackluster) use of the DC characters, I will give them a solid "B" for The Dark Knight Coaster. Certainly not A-list theming ala Disney or Universal, but definitely a couple steps up from what SF usually does.

 

[David Roberts]

While I agree with your general sentiments about Six Flags and their (lackluster) use of the DC characters, I will give them a solid "B" for The Dark Knight Coaster. Certainly not A-list theming ala Disney or Universal, but definitely a couple steps up from what SF usually does.

Agreed. I was suprised that there was even an attempt by SF to tell some sort of story before you stepped on the ride. The ride itself was not that great but the pre-show was very cool.

 

[flavious27]

If Marvel were to be incorporated into Disney HOLLYWOOD Studios, wouldn't the MOVIE versions of the franchise (movie Spiderman, Captain America, Iron man, Fantastic 4, Hulk, and now Thor) be more "in theme" than the comic versions? I personally would welcome Marvel movie styled attractions rather than comic versions. Universal IoA has already got the comic style Marvel. Maybe with "movie Marvel" DHS could do something even while IoA has their attractions still active. I feel like if WDW used Marvel in the same way/style as Universal, it would feel too much like being at IoA and not like something new at WDW. That would suck. Bring the movie versions. Anybody know if the the Marvel Movie franchises fall under all that mumbo jumbo about IoA being the only park with rights to Marvel this side of the Mississippi?

I just don't think that squeezing in so many franchises into DHS will be good for us and also the rides themselves. Yes DHS is where it makes sense to have attractions based on movies and their characters, when they do not fit in at MK.

There is only so much that can be done with 30 acres or less. The amount of room that is available is about the same as wwhp, if not just a bit more; and look at how that lack of room compromises the experience. It would be hypocritical that we will rake uni over the coals for not using enough room and propose that disney does the same thing. I think that the room for expansion would be fine for an extended star wars land. Along with that, a land that is themed from tron. There is a line that disney will walk down, between occupying every square foot of an expansion to get as much in vs giving enough room for two lands to be transition properly between each other.

 

[faceleg]

Not to add fuel to the fire at all....but if it came to it IOA could retheme Marvel to DC. If I recall correctly, there were already plans for a DC island at IOA. Including a Batman stunt water stunt show I believe. But they couldn't secure the rights so on the shelf it went. Now if only I could remember where I read that at.

 

[flavious27]

Not to add fuel to the fire at all....but if it came to it IOA could retheme Marvel to DC. If I recall correctly, there were already plans for a DC island at IOA. Including a Batman stunt water stunt show I believe. But they couldn't secure the rights so on the shelf it went. Now if only I could remember where I read that at.

Well the problem with that is six flags will try what they can to keep their dc licenses, and dc will want to get paid the same amount from all of the six flags parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not to add fuel to the fire at all....but if it came to it IOA could retheme Marvel to DC. If I recall correctly, there were already plans for a DC island at IOA. Including a Batman stunt water stunt show I believe. But they couldn't secure the rights so on the shelf it went. Now if only I could remember where I read that at.

Probably this series by Jeff Tucker for Comics 101.
NO (BAT)MAN IS AN ISLAND, PART I
NO (BAT)MAN IS AN ISLAND, PART II
NO (BAT)MAN IS AN ISLAND, PART III
NO (BAT)MAN IS AN ISLAND, PART IV
NO (BAT)MAN IS AN ISLAND, PART V
NO (BAT)MAN IS AN ISLAND, PART VI
NO (BAT)MAN IS AN ISLAND, PART VII
NO (BAT)MAN IS AN ISLAND, PART VIII

 

[redshoesrock]

Well the problem with that is six flags will try what they can to keep their dc licenses, and dc will want to get paid the same amount from all of the six flags parks.

I don't remember what the site was (Screamscape?), but there was an article about a high-level Universal meeting regarding what their contingency plan would be if they lost the Marvel characters in IOA for whatever reason (bought out by Disney, Disney making Uni's life a living hell to force them to give up the Marvel rights, etc). The article mentioned one of their ideas was to buy out Six Flags' rights to the DC characters, re-theming Hulk to Superman and Spider-man to Batman.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't remember what the site was (Screamscape?), but there was an article about a high-level Universal meeting regarding what their contingency plan would be if they lost the Marvel characters in IOA for whatever reason (bought out by Disney, Disney making Uni's life a living hell to force them to give up the Marvel rights, etc). The article mentioned one of their ideas was to buy out Six Flags' rights to the DC characters, re-theming Hulk to Superman and Spider-man to Batman.

Screamscape did post a pretty lengthy update on the idea.
http://screamscape.com/html/islands_of_adventure.htm

 

[Magenta Panther]

I don't understand what the big deal is with all the Marvel haters. Seriously, what up? As a comic book fan and as a fan of Disney I for one look very, very foward to seeing Disney develop Marvel attractions in their parks, including the Disneyland-styled ones. Obviously Disney's not just gonna throw the characters wherever in the parks, they'll find a way to fit them in and the attractions will be done thematically right, so just calm down.

I'm curious, what did you all do during the Disney Deccade when it was announced that Tracy's Crimestoppers
would be constructed in Disneyland in a new "Hollywoodland" area? I mean, seriously, did you burry your head in a pillow and cry because not only was Tracy not created by Disney, but it isn't even owned by Disney? If you did, then wow, because by all accounts it would've been one of the most impressive attractions every built, and I'm sure that any Marvel attraction built in the parks will be as well. Surely Marvel, being owned by Disney, deserves an attraction moreso than Tracy ever did, whether Disney released the Tracy film under one of its film banners or not.

I swear sometimes fanboys make no sense...go make yourselves useful and instead of complaining about a great set of attractions that MAY someday be constructed (they haven't even been announced yet), go dream about Beastlie Kingdomme or something great like that, something that was actually announced and never built... Marvel not only belongs in a Disney park, I have no doubt it will one day find its way into a Disney park, and the attractions developed for this great line of characters will be wonderful.

Not trying to be snarky, but if its characters are so great, why did Marvel declare bankruptcy back in 1996?

I think that, in buying Marvel, Iger was trying to take a shortcut in his plan to attract more males to the Disney brand. Frankly, I don't know what his hangup is about that. Males love Pixar, and most of its movies are certainly marketed to males more than females - Monsters Inc., Cars, even Toy Story (remember Ken getting sneered at for being a "girl's toy"?) I wish Iger would stop thinking that Disney has to have ALL of the candy in the store. So the Disney Channel doesn't get as many male viewers as Nickelodeon - big deal! The channel's doing fine anyway. Sometimes I think Iger acts too much like a typical corporate suit, thinking the way to keep Disney healthy is to "grow the company" rather than improve quality and respect the legacy. How many companies have gone belly-up thanks to that belief?

I wouldn't mind Marvel characters appearing in DHS - much - because of the other off-brand characters that appear there. But building a Marvel Land instead of Beastly Kingdom, which would at least be an original concept and not another franchise cash-in, is something altogether different. I hate the very idea of it. Your mileage may vary.