Management about to change Expedition Everest

[JML42691]

There are more then 5 blocks on this ride.
1. Load station
2. Approach and 1st lift
3. Ride around to and 2nd lift
4. Top of mountain and broken track stop
5. Backwards portion and shadow room
6. Drop and helix (block brakes after)
7. Yeti Room (block brakes after)
8. Wait station outside unload
9. Unload station

Block 1 is to short to really count for spacing purposes, lift would always stop if that was counted on.
Blocks 4,5,6 can be tricky because the spacing needed for the switch tracks.

5 trains can work easly, no need to slow lifts. One train in load, one in unload, on on lift, one on top, and one in drop and helix area. The only place it would really slow down the ride is you might have to wait at the wait station to pull into unload. But at the same time the load station would get a train sooner speeding up the load process so they are hopefully ready by the time the ride systen gives them the ok to dispatch.

Although many of these mentioned areas are capable of being used to control block sections, a chain lift shouldn't be used to control a block section becasue of the stress on the chain. Block sections require the ammount of time that the train takes to travel from one section to another to be about the same with maybe a few seconds difference. That way trains are passing through the brakes at about the same time. The brakes after the yeti scene (the ones that are indoors, not the ones outside) are not used to stop a train. They slow down the train's speed so you do not come to a screeching halt at the staion. The only current sections that can be used to control a section are loading, wait a the peak, wait at the yeti shadow, before yeti room, immediatly before unloading, and unloading. To answer a question stated by someone before, another brake section cannot be added as a flat, straight piece of track that is longer than the length of the train is required to stop the train. The area inside the mountain after the yeti room could be used but it may not be long enough and a train waiting there would be waiting behind a train that is waiting to enter the unload and this would have a domino effect on the rest of the ride.

 

[the-reason14]

Last week, the train stopped a couple of times right after the helix. It messed up the whole thing, and the yeti didnt move at all. It kinda ruined the experience.

 

[EpcotServo]

Well.... Not necessarily. Though I haven't ridden Everest yet (2 more months!), I've gotten a decent feel for the operations from a few videos I've seen online. (And used my knowledge of how coaster systems work in general).

The key factor in running the attraction at maximum capacity isn't necessarily less just because riders at the load platform have to wait for a train to come in from unload. But rather it's whether the train is loaded and locked and then has to wait for a clear signal in order to dispatch.

If the CMs can get a train loaded with passengers, locked, and they're still waiting for the computer to give a clear signal to dispatch, then they're running the attraction at the highest possible capacity. The more consistently they can get the trains loaded and ready before the first possible moment for dispatch, the higher the hourly capacity regardless of whether or not an empty train was available right away. But if the train is loaded and the earliest-posisble-dispatch point has passed, then the capacity is lowered. I believe that if you (consistently) see a train near the top of the main lift hill as another train is exiting out the front of the mountain, the ride is running at maximum capacity.

I'll use my favorite coaster (Superman Ride of Steel here at Six Flags new England) as a simpler example. Its maximum capacity is two trains. Let's say that Train 1 has just been dispatched onto the track, and Train 2 is pulling back into the station to be unloaded and then loaded. No matter how fast they load Train 2, the computer won't allow it to be dispatched until Train 1 has reached a specific point on the track near the end of the ride.

So if the employees can get Train 2 loaded quickly, and are then standing there waiting to push the Dispatch button the moment the computer gives the all-clear, they're running it at the maximum throughput for that coaster.

But if unloading and loading are slow, Train 1 will finish the ride and come in and stop on the brake run. It will then sit there and wait until Train 2 has finally left the station. (the term for this is "stacking" the trains, and it happens more often than not on Superman) Every minute that Train 1 sits on the brake run is wasted time, and detracts from the hourly capacity.

-Rob

Yep, you got it. You only get so many 50-second dispatches in an hour. It's not going to incresase the OHRC. They just want to give out more Fastpasses, and this is the only way to do it, so Ride and Show Engineering is coming in and changing it.

And I didn't say that stacking was "Possible" for this system. I said it IS going to happen with this system. ALOT. And all those few-second cascades is going to add up to not as many people getting through in an hour. But like I said, they're going to keep it so they can get some more Fastpasses out, because guests complain they run out too fast. Unlike Soarin' where there's nothing to do about that, the people here said "Hey, we've got a fifth train here, why don't we run that?" They pass that down and the next group says "Because it's bad for the system, and it'll break down for the day" Then they say "We could fix it so the ride's slower and you can have your fifth train."
That's how these ideas start. And I doubt they'll give up all the work done on this just because of those Fastpasses.

And trust me on this one, it's true. I've never posted any crazy rumors or things like that, and I'm always the first one to say "BAH! That's not true." For example, the Monsters Inc. name change I actully heard tell about a few days beforehand, but I didn't think it was true. (Boy, was I surprised!) And as I've stated, I hope that it never sees guest work, and it'll back to our old Everest, but I know that they're shooting for Easter and as early before that as possible.

 

[DznyGrlSD]

Well said, I was thinking the SAME exact thing. You can't just put another train on the track, doesn't work that way, unfortunately!!

Where is this information coming from? I have worked in the amusement industry for many years now and I have worked with Intamin closely on many projects. I know how ride systems work and the PLC's that control them, there is much more to it than meets the eye.

I can't imagine American Bridge coming down and reprogramming the PLC, changing the load area logic, retraining all the staff, adding sensors to the braking area, slowing down the lift, and everything else that needs to happen to add an additional train. This isn't as simple as putting the train on the track and poof you're ready to go.

We are talking about the ride being shut down for days, weeks with testing. I am not calling you a liar, just asking if this information is credible.

 

[bassman]

I think it would be a good idea having the lift go a little slower AND spending more time in the shadow room would be good ideas :lookaroun

On the lift, you would get more time to take in the great views and look around longer in the yeti shrine-type room. And if you sit in the front few rows, you don't get to see the entire animation of the shadow scene. I think it might be pretty neat to be sitting there for a few extra seconds with nothing visually going on. It might build a little more anticipation for the drop.

However after seeing the video of the opening day ride, I don't think it would be worth all of that to have a break after the helix and before the AA. That really kinda ruins the ending of the ride.

this i agree with.
yes it would be great to have a better look at the scenery but theres still the problem of the huge backlog that mill most likely happen at the load/unload station.

the only way round it i can see is to add to the yeti video in the cave and have the train wait longer there,but then there is still going to be a backlog just further round the track.


btw dxwwf 3.
where did u get the info that BTTF is going to be shut?.
its one of my favourites,i dont wanna see it go.

 

[dxwwf3]

btw dxwwf 3.
where did u get the info that BTTF is going to be shut?.
its one of my favourites,i dont wanna see it go.

http://www.universalorlando.com/usf_attr_bttf.html

 

[Valawen9]

http://www.universalorlando.com/usf_attr_bttf.html

Yeah we got something in the mail from Universal saying to come ride it before it closes.

 

[bob0012]

Although many of these mentioned areas are capable of being used to control block sections, a chain lift cannot be used to control a block section.

The chain lift can be used, it's just prefered not to. After all, it's a lot easier to kick on some drive wheels then start a chain lift with the weight of the train on it.

Block sections require the ammount of time that the train takes to travel from one section to another to be about the same with maybe a few seconds difference. That way trains are passing through the brakes at about the same time.

Consider the time you spend on the lift hill and realize that's about the same amount of time as any other block on the ride.

The brakes after the yeti scene (the ones that are indoors, not the ones outside) are not used to stop a train. They slow down the train's speed so you do not come to a screeching halt at the staion.

From what I've seen the run seems to be long enough, so I just figured they would have installed block breaks not just trims there just incase. That way if for some reason somthing backs up load the other 3 trains could sit at unload, wait station, and yeti room. That way the ride experance wouldn't be interupted for an issue in load.

The only current sections that can be used to control a section are loading, wait a the peak, wait at the yeti shadow, before yeti room, immediatly before unloading, and unloading.

Again, that doesn't make sense, that would mean that the next train couldn't dispatch from the station untill the train prior is in the shadow room.

To answer a question stated by someone before, another brake section cannot be added as a flat, straight piece of track that is longer than the length of the train is required to stop the train. The area inside the mountain after the yeti room could be used but it may not be long enough and a train waiting there would be waiting behind a train that is waiting to enter the unload and this would have a domino effect on the rest of the ride.

Even with just the 6 sections you mentioned above 5 train operation is possible. And yes it could cause stacking, although if cast members are doing their jobs properly having everyone already lined up, ect. it shouldn't back up to much. You've got about a min to get everyone out of one train, and the same min to load everyone into the train prior. I understand there are exceptions, but they should be ready most of the time when the ride system is. And if they are ready when the ride system is then the "backup" should be cleared within one cycle of the trains. (If one train leaves late, but the rest of the trains in the cycle are on time, then the proper spacing between trains is in place)

 

[EpcotServo]

Even with just the 6 sections you mentioned above 5 train operation is possible. And yes it could cause stacking, although if cast members are doing their jobs properly having everyone already lined up, ect. it shouldn't back up to much. You've got about a min to get everyone out of one train, and the same min to load everyone into the train prior. I understand there are exceptions, but they should be ready most of the time when the ride system is. And if they are ready when the ride system is then the "backup" should be cleared within one cycle of the trains. (If one train leaves late, but the rest of the trains in the cycle are on time, then the proper spacing between trains is in place)

The thing is that Wheelchair parties take longer to get out and clear unload,(Cast Members can't just grab them and throw them off.) and with there being so many wheelchair parties in the day, the constant starting and stopping is going to be a big problem. Plus all those people who get off on the wrong side. I see one of those everytime I visit.
:lol:

 

[ToTBellHop]

this is why the situation at Space Mountain at Disneyland is ideal, since they can move a rocket over to the side for wheelchairs. Obviously, that isn't possible here.

 

[bob0012]

The thing is that Wheelchair parties take longer to get out and clear unload,(Cast Members can't just grab them and throw them off.) and with there being so many wheelchair parties in the day, the constant starting and stopping is going to be a big problem. Plus all those people who get off on the wrong side. I see one of those everytime I visit.
:lol:

Oh, I know that, but that's a lame excuse. There are a lot of wheel chair parties but most of them are capable of getting in and out in proper time.

And really, so what if the trains stack here and there, you do it on every other ride. Are you implying then need to take boats off POTC, Honey pots off pooh, cars off Test Track, boats out of the land, boats out of Small World, rockets off space mountain, boats off splash mountain, ect. All those rides stack too.

 

[mousermerf]

It takes CMs trained properly and willing to communicate with guests to load WC's quickly and efficiently. There is no policy against a CM touching a guest to help them load/unload, contrary to what many CMs will tell you. They cannot grab a guest, but rather can offer an arm or support and guide the movement.

I loaded attractions for years, various types and styles, and on average it only takes 30 seconds max to load a WC guest is you properly describe the movement so that they thoroughly understand it and control the situation. You DO NOT park the WC and have the guest hobble into the vehicle or have their family carry them while you lean against the rail and chit-chat. You move the chair, their family or they do not. You control everything, make sure everyone knows their jobs. One ride i worked even handed out instructions for guests in queue on cards telling them exactly what would be happening.

 

[dxwwf3]

And really, so what if the trains stack here and there, you do it on every other ride. Are you implying then need to take boats off POTC, Honey pots off pooh, cars off Test Track, boats out of the land, boats out of Small World, rockets off space mountain, boats off splash mountain, ect. All those rides stack too.

Stacking doesn't seem to have an effect on the endings of those other attractions though. It actually adds to something like POTC and IASW. At Everest, I think that it would take away from the finale. I don't think it would be the end of the world, but I think it's a different type of situation than the others you mentioned.

 

[bob0012]

It takes CMs trained properly and willing to communicate with guests to load WC's quickly and efficiently. There is no policy against a CM touching a guest to help them load/unload, contrary to what many CMs will tell you. They cannot grab a guest, but rather can offer an arm or support and guide the movement.

I loaded attractions for years, various types and styles, and on average it only takes 30 seconds max to load a WC guest is you properly describe the movement so that they thoroughly understand it and control the situation. You DO NOT park the WC and have the guest hobble into the vehicle or have their family carry them while you lean against the rail and chit-chat. You move the chair, their family or they do not. You control everything, make sure everyone knows their jobs. One ride i worked even handed out instructions for guests in queue on cards telling them exactly what would be happening.

Exactly. I was going to type somthing about actually talking to wc guests, but figured that would just get argued with like everything else.

Bottem line is if you tell the guest whats going to happen, stay with them, and offer an assistance you can to load them they will probebly be in faster then the standard guest.

Yes there will be people who take longer, but that's not the norm, and no reason to justify not adding another train.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Since we've concluded that a 5th train probably wouldn't help capacity, why would that have any effect on the number of fast passes given out? That logic doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[bob0012]

Stacking doesn't seem to have an effect on the endings of those other attractions though. It actually adds to something like POTC and IASW. At Everest, I think that it would take away from the finale. I don't think it would be the end of the world, but I think it's a different type of situation than the others you mentioned.

The first train to stack would stop right before the unload station, the second would stop between the helix and yeti room. So the third in the shadow room. And exteded animation in the shadow room would cover that room, the other two don't really matter to the show.

 

[bob0012]

Since we've concluded that a 5th train probably wouldn't help capacity, why would that have any effect on the number of fast passes given out? That logic doesn't make any sense to me.

A 5th train would help capacity. Instead of having that dead time waiting for the train to come into unload, there will be a train ready to load. That will allow them to get the train out sooner (hopefully as soon as the ride system will let them). And that will add a few extra dispatches each hour, increasing capacity. although not by much.

Really I'm against fast pass, so I disagree with the reason for it, but I'm all for a ride running at full capacity.

 

[dxwwf3]

The first train to stack would stop right before the unload station, the second would stop between the helix and yeti room. So the third in the shadow room. And exteded animation in the shadow room would cover that room, the other two don't really matter to the show.

I think that the only one that does matter is between the helix and yeti room. Like I said before, I don't think it's a doomsday proposition, but the smooth transition from the drop to the helix to the big finale is part of what makes the ride great. If somehow the stacking could be done after the yeti encounter and before the unload, it would be perfect.

But I agree that any other place in the ride wouldn't really big a big deal.

 

[bob0012]

I think that the only one that does matter is between the helix and yeti room. Like I said before, I don't think it's a doomsday proposition, but the smooth transition from the drop to the helix to the big finale is part of what makes the ride great. If somehow the stacking could be done after the yeti encounter and before the unload, it would be perfect.

But I agree that any other place in the ride wouldn't really big a big deal.

True the transition is nicer. And I know there's one wait before the unload, there is room for a second but someone else had said they are only trim brakes.

 

[EpcotServo]

Stacking doesn't seem to have an effect on the endings of those other attractions though. It actually adds to something like POTC and IASW. At Everest, I think that it would take away from the finale. I don't think it would be the end of the world, but I think it's a different type of situation than the others you mentioned.

Yes, I agree. Being stuck in the Shadow of the Yeti after the animation plays, will IMHO affect the "Have to get back down the mountain" feeling that the whole ride's ending is about.(Speaking of which, that reminds me of a great story, know how they had the High School Musical kids on the train going down the drop for the opening? Well to get that timed, they had to be on that train there waiting for 3 hours! And even then the train wasn't right on time. Watch the video and you'll see the smoke go off before the train comes. Everytime I really start to hate HSM I always think about them stuck up there in the cold Shadow of the Yeti room for three hours! :lol

As for the other rides, if the stacking is causing wear and tear, yea, you're supposed to take a car off. If Space Mountain stacked all the time, the ride would be even more of a mess. A ride is only supposed to cascade a few times in a day, not every hour. And the amazing super-powered Everest lifts and lift-chains aren't designed to always be starting and stopping all the time. Again, Everest is still going to be safe. Just don't be surprised if it's going to be down alot more from now often.

(Edit to clear up more questions.
1.to DXWWF3, Because of the fact that if a train is stopped at that Helix brake zone, the Yeti wouldn't work, they're having the trains start stacking at Shadow of the Yeti as I mentioned.

2.to RSoxNo1, I agree. The logic behind what they're doing dosen't make sense to me either. They just want to give out more Fastpasses to please the guests who get there late.

3. to Bob0012, actully, there's no way to squish in more Dispatches in an hour. Because of show timing, it's still going to be the same number of dispatch windows. Just another train full of people on the track.)