Major DTD update

[steve76]

I can't see the finances ever working to support an expansion of the monorail, since the money spent could fund a number of attractions in all the parks, which would attract the crowds and bring in direct revenue. Nobody except for the real Disney fans are ever going to book a trip to Disney to see a new monorail line, but they would for new attractions/lands/parks.

However, I could see them making more of the monorail system as it stands. I have long thought that they could relocate the MK parking lot to just West of the MK (with paths/moving walkways/trams to the entrance). They could then turn the TTC and parking lot area into another monorail resort (which they could charge the earth for). This would also relieve the pressure on the monorail, since it wouldn't have to deal with day guests, and make it easier for everybody when the parks close. They could also put a resort on the STOLport site on the Epcot line.

 

[Mouse Detective]

There is a need (at times) for more parking at Downtown Disney. There is an even greater need if they double or triple the size of DTD. Thus, a parking garage makes sense for DTD. There is no parking shortage at MK or EPCOT. So why build a garage for people going to those parks, far from them and having to connect the garage and parks with an extremely expensive connecting system? So while this would be fun to have, it isn't needed and economically unfeasible.

 

[PeterAlt]

Sorry Peter Att, that's a well-written piece, but ultimately follow the money.

(1) A monorail from TTC to DTD would easily cost more than an entire new theme park--without any obvious new revenue to offset costs.

(2) The main riders on said monorail would be people looking to get out of WDW's $15 parking fees.

(1) it's EPCOT to DD

(2) there are people willing to pay that much for the convenience

 

[PeterAlt]

I can't see the finances ever working to support an expansion of the monorail, since the money spent could fund a number of attractions in all the parks, which would attract the crowds and bring in direct revenue. Nobody except for the real Disney fans are ever going to book a trip to Disney to see a new monorail line, but they would for new attractions/lands/parks.

However, I could see them making more of the monorail system as it stands. I have long thought that they could relocate the MK parking lot to just West of the MK (with paths/moving walkways/trams to the entrance). They could then turn the TTC and parking lot area into another monorail resort (which they could charge the earth for). This would also relieve the pressure on the monorail, since it wouldn't have to deal with day guests, and make it easier for everybody when the parks close. They could also put a resort on the STOLport site on the Epcot line.

I've thought about that before, but found an article on the Internet claiming to have seen a more recent Master Plan. This one shows a theme park planned for the parcel directly next to the MK parking lot. It would use the EPCOT line as is with no extension but with a new stop. I'm guessing this park would share the MK parking lot.

 

[wm49rs]

I've thought about that before, but found an article on the Internet claiming to have seen a more recent Master Plan. This one shows a theme park planned for the parcel directly next to the MK parking lot. It would use the EPCOT line as is with no extension but with a new stop. I'm guessing this park would share the MK parking lot.

Where was the article from?

 

[lazyboy97o]

(1) it's EPCOT to DD

(2) there are people willing to pay that much for the convenience

How is having to take a several minute monorail ride more convenient than parking right in front of the park?

 

[G00fyDad]

Do you really need permits to clear a path of land? If you don't believe these clearings exist, check Google Earth or other satellite imagery yourself! They're there and have been cleared in recent years.

First of all, stop yelling. Thanks. And second, I never said that they weren't clearing land. Calm down. They may indeed be doing just that, but I can promise you, with all earnest in my heart, that if they were truly building a new monorail track then they would have filed a permit for it. And they have not. They can clear land until the sun explodes. It doesn't mean that they are building a monorail addition.

 

[PeterAlt]

First of all, stop yelling. Thanks. And second, I never said that they weren't clearing land. Calm down. They may indeed be doing just that, but I can promise you, with all earnest in my heart, that if they were truly building a new monorail track then they would have filed a permit for it. And they have not. They can clear land until the sun explodes. It doesn't mean that they are building a monorail addition.

Coincidentally, today Apple rolled out iOS 6 and their new maps app to replace Google's. Fortunately, for this conversation, it has better and more current satellite imagery. As I started exploring the WDW area, I found something I can use as an example of what I'm talking about here. Not only do you see a path extending from the monorail already cleared, but you can also see they've dusted off the nearby unused pylon footers. Mysteriously, it looks like there's current work going on there...

....ummm as soon as someone tells me how to upload photos, I'll upload the screenshot I took.

I made it my avatar!

 

[PeterAlt]

How is having to take a several minute monorail ride more convenient than parking right in front of the park?

If you're going to MK, you have to go through the parking tolls, park, wait for tram, take tram to TTC, wait for monorail, take monorail to MK, wait in line to pass gate with your ticket.

Much of these steps could be eliminated. They could make it even faster if they combine multiple monorail lines for direct service without having to make multiple transfers.

 

[PeterAlt]

Where was the article from?

I'll look for it and post the link when I find it again. Sorry. I should have saved the link.

 

[G00fyDad]

And where is the monetary push for Disney to do this? That is assuming that they are doing this illegally since they have yet to file a permit of course.

 

[El Grupo]

If you're going to MK, you have to go through the parking tolls, park, wait for tram, take tram to TTC, wait for monorail, take monorail to MK, wait in line to pass gate with your ticket.

Much of these steps could be eliminated. They could make it even faster if they combine multiple monorail lines for direct service without having to make multiple transfers.

True. But, wouldn't a person would still have to go through gates at a parking deck, wait for a monorail, ride several minutes to MK that would probably equal or be greater than the time spent with the present system?

 

[lazyboy97o]

If you're going to MK, you have to go through the parking tolls, park, wait for tram, take tram to TTC, wait for monorail, take monorail to MK, wait in line to pass gate with your ticket.

Much of these steps could be eliminated. They could make it even faster if they combine multiple monorail lines for direct service without having to make multiple transfers.

1. This is not your original argument, which was that monorail service from Downtown Disney would enable Disney to charge more for parking at this deck.
2. Such a situation would not remove the hassles you describe and likely increase the time it would take to get to the park of choice.
3. Direct lines only rapidly increases the cost of a system, that is why such systems tend not to exist.

 

[TimeTrip]

Coincidentally, today Apple rolled out iOS 6 and their new maps app to replace Google's. Fortunately, for this conversation, it has better and more current satellite imagery. As I started exploring the WDW area, I found something I can use as an example of what I'm talking about here. Not only do you see a path extending from the monorail already cleared, but you can also see they've dusted off the nearby unused pylon footers. Mysteriously, it looks like there's current work going on there...

....ummm as soon as someone tells me how to upload photos, I'll upload the screenshot I took.

I made it my avatar!

Your avatar looks like a satellite shot of where they put an extra spur for a tractor, which was discussed a while ago (April 2011!):
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/photos-new-monorail-track-spur-nears-completion.726128/

Also, FWIW, if you look on google maps satellite imagery, you can see this new finished spur.

 

[El Grupo]

The following may be cost-prohibitive as well. However, IF Disney chose to go with a period-theme for DTD, I wonder if they might consider a classic elevated train (similar to the version at TDS) to connect that area with EPCOT monorail station. Sort of a "past meets the future" approach.

 

[yoyoflamingo]

Where was the article from?

I believe this is the article referred to.

 

[PeterAlt]

True. But, wouldn't a person would still have to go through gates at a parking deck, wait for a monorail, ride several minutes to MK that would probably equal or be greater than the time spent with the present system?

Yeah, but it still saves steps. This also provides an opportunity to eat lunch or shop at DD before heading over to a theme park by monorail. It also gives the opportunity to exit a theme park at night by monorail and spend the rest of the evening at DD before walking back to their car across the elevated walkway that takes you across the street to the garage.

 

[PeterAlt]

3. Direct lines only rapidly increases the cost of a system, that is why such systems tend not to exist.

If the MK and EPCOT and DD loops were interconnected as one continuous loop, where all trains stop at all stations (attraction stations; MK resort loop + TTC would remain separate), how would this increase cost?

They already built a spur linking the MK and EPCOT loops a few months ago, so there's no construction costs for these two loops to tie together. I don't see how this could add any operational cost, since no additional trains would be needed. Operations would actually be simplified by merging two or three loops (three in the case of a LBV loop) into one long loop where all color trains on that loop all stop directly at the MK, EPCOT, DD, and DHS. DAK could be serviced by a mostly ground level light rail loop.

 

[PeterAlt]

I believe this is the article referred to.

Yes, that was it! Thank you for saving me the time to find it!

 

[PeterAlt]

Your avatar looks like a satellite shot of where they put an extra spur for a tractor, which was discussed a while ago (April 2011!):
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/photos-new-monorail-track-spur-nears-completion.726128/

Also, FWIW, if you look on google maps satellite imagery, you can see this new finished spur.

I stand corrected, but I see buried pylon footers and such all over the place. If this is the spur they just built, then that confirms the rectangular concrete boxes of the same size that appear all over the place (some buried, but you can see the outline of it) are indeed pylon footers.

By the way, just curious, could other existing elevated structures support a monorail beam, or does it have to be pylons buried 70 feet into the ground supported by massive concrete footers? What do Metro systems like Miami's Metrorail or Atlanta's MARTA use? I've heard those systems require much stronger foundations at closer intervals, but don't know if that's true.