Major 2015 Pirates of the Caribbean Refurbishment Watch/Rumor.

[JediMasterMatt]

... But it [sic - adding show scenes to the area between unload and load] will never be done. At least with the current upper management/current TDO.

There is only one way that you could sell TDO on the value added by switching from a separate load/unload system to a flush load/unloading system is that you could increase the capacity of the attraction by putting all of the boats in use that are in between the unload and load zones. The boats would also stay in motion more consistently as they would only need to stop once instead of twice. The tangible gain would be small; but, that would be the only way I would ever pitch it to management that would have any hope of it being approved. Oh, and I would add in "we could increase the number of available FP+ reservations in a day for Pirates by doing this".

It has nothing to do with the sizes of people. The ride operated for almost 40 years without taking on water, getting people soaked, or having the extreme issues the boats have now.

That all changed it he moment Pirates got the terrible (cheaper) plastic boats in July 2013. It's the boats. We went from awesome fiberglass boats to cheap Fisher Price toys.

That's what happens when you take a boat engineered and tested for Anaheim's Pirates and then deploy it in quantity to Orlando in a rush instead of taking the time to determine if they should even be used at all.

The new boats in Orlando should "kinda/almost" work for the most part.

They do sit a bit lower in the water under ideal circumstances; but, the main issue is Orlando is that those ideal circumstances don't really exist. Ideally, the boats sit a bit lower in the water when under "normal" load. Unfortunately, actual load in Orlando is different than normal load in Anaheim - and for once, I'm not talking about the weight of the guests.

The main issue with the new boats on Orlando's Pirates is that the drop runoff and the boat's leading edge angle don't play nice. The boats decelerate much more quickly than they use to and create a bigger wave. Anaheim's runoff from the drops is more gradual and the boats don't create a big of a wake as they decelerate. They hydroplane a bit more than Orlando.

In Orlando, the drop angle and run off are different. Front end or the boat plows into the water and creates the bigger splash. This in turn compounds the issue as the water going over the nose of the boat then adds to the weight and further puts more of the raft under water for the next time it splashes down and then the process repeats itself. It's the extra weight of the water than really change the amount of splash from raft to raft.

If the upcoming refurb can address the runoff area by raising the angle at which the boats seat themselves back into the flume, they probably can continue to use the plastic boats. The other option would be to simply put some magnetic breaks on the drop to slow the boats down before they make contact with the water.

Make no mistake - MK's Pirates with an unbalanced water logged boat is no laughing matter. My Nikon D700 almost didn't survive the mammoth wall of water I encountered in a front seat trip shortly after the new boats were put in place. A wave came crashing over the bow and soaked us to our chest.

 

[marni1971]

If the upcoming refurb can address the runoff area by raising the angle at which the boats seat themselves back into the flume, they probably can continue to use the plastic boats.

Don't forget the new fleet has at least one more inherent flaw too.

 

[TP2000]

I visited DL last year and will return for the 60th anniversary celebration. It's incredible to see how much better DL is operated, and how many more attractions the park has. If the MK had the attraction count and ride capacity of DL, regular refurbs wouldn't bring the whole place crashing down.

The word "incredible" is the right one to describe Disneyland compared to Magic Kingdom Park.

Pirates is always my instant barometer for my Magic Kingdom vs. Disneyland tests. It's a ride I never skip on my WDW visits and always ride it at Disneyland within days of returning home to SoCal. It's fascinating to see the differences in audio, effects, animatronics, lighting and operation at Disneyland compared to Magic Kingdom.

I never quite understood how much this Phil Holmes character played into this stuff, but perhaps he's the reason Pirates is so shabby at WDW?

That said, any showmanship upgrades they do at a long overdue rehab on WDW's Pirates still won't add the missing seven minutes of ride time that Disneyland's Pirates has. It's an 8 minute long ride at WDW, and a 15 minute long ride at Disneyland. And that will never change.

 

[Texas84]

Yep, I was in the back row marathon weekend.

 

[GrumpyFan]

He didn't sue. He admitted he was in the wrong.

Lucky for them. I wonder though, how many "injury" lawyers called this guy wanting to represent him, only to hang up the phone when they found out he admitted his mistake.

 

[ford91exploder]

There is only one way that you could sell TDO on the value added by switching from a separate load/unload system to a flush load/unloading system is that you could increase the capacity of the attraction by putting all of the boats in use that are in between the unload and load zones. The boats would also stay in motion more consistently as they would only need to stop once instead of twice. The tangible gain would be small; but, that would be the only way I would ever pitch it to management that would have any hope of it being approved. Oh, and I would add in "we could increase the number of available FP+ reservations in a day for Pirates by doing this".



That's what happens when you take a boat engineered and tested for Anaheim's Pirates and then deploy it in quantity to Orlando in a rush instead of taking the time to determine if they should even be used at all.

The new boats in Orlando should "kinda/almost" work for the most part.

They do sit a bit lower in the water under ideal circumstances; but, the main issue is Orlando is that those ideal circumstances don't really exist. Ideally, the boats sit a bit lower in the water when under "normal" load. Unfortunately, actual load in Orlando is different than normal load in Anaheim - and for once, I'm not talking about the weight of the guests.

The main issue with the new boats on Orlando's Pirates is that the drop runoff and the boat's leading edge angle don't play nice. The boats decelerate much more quickly than they use to and create a bigger wave. Anaheim's runoff from the drops is more gradual and the boats don't create a big of a wake as they decelerate. They hydroplane a bit more than Orlando.

In Orlando, the drop angle and run off are different. Front end or the boat plows into the water and creates the bigger splash. This in turn compounds the issue as the water going over the nose of the boat then adds to the weight and further puts more of the raft under water for the next time it splashes down and then the process repeats itself. It's the extra weight of the water than really change the amount of splash from raft to raft.

If the upcoming refurb can address the runoff area by raising the angle at which the boats seat themselves back into the flume, they probably can continue to use the plastic boats. The other option would be to simply put some magnetic breaks on the drop to slow the boats down before they make contact with the water.

Make no mistake - MK's Pirates with an unbalanced water logged boat is no laughing matter. My Nikon D700 almost didn't survive the mammoth wall of water I encountered in a front seat trip shortly after the new boats were put in place. A wave came crashing over the bow and soaked us to our chest.

Don't forget the boats were rejected as unsatisfactory at DL, So what does TDO do they use boats which failed DL's QA because they were 'free'. And were by design partially incompatible as referenced post points out.

 

[tirian]

The word "incredible" is the right one to describe Disneyland compared to Magic Kingdom Park.

Pirates is always my instant barometer for my Magic Kingdom vs. Disneyland tests. It's a ride I never skip on my WDW visits and always ride it at Disneyland within days of returning home to SoCal. It's fascinating to see the differences in audio, effects, animatronics, lighting and operation at Disneyland compared to Magic Kingdom.

I never quite understood how much this Phil Holmes character played into this stuff, but perhaps he's the reason Pirates is so shabby at WDW?

That said, any showmanship upgrades they do at a long overdue rehab on WDW's Pirates still won't add the missing seven minutes of ride time that Disneyland's Pirates has. It's an 8 minute long ride at WDW, and a 15 minute long ride at Disneyland. And that will never change.

It could change. But it probably won't.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I went on today... Blackbeard was turned off, the mermaids still look awful and should either be replaced with animatronics or removed.

They have been loading all rows, and we did get stuck on the ride on Thursday night. Took about 15-20 minutes to get us moving again. Today I noticed that the water level seemed down a few inches. The track was visible throughout the ride.

Also, there is a wooden pathway along the left side of the track leading to the Blackbeard area, has this always been there?

 

[TP2000]

It could change. But it probably won't.

I think to change it they'd have to add a second warehouse to the ride facility, and make up the missing seven minutes of ride time elsewhere. But artistically, that would get really weird.

Know what the other good barometer attraction I use on my WDW vs. Disneyland trips? You'll never guess...

It's Tough To Be A Bug. Even before Disneyland moved to the crystal-clear HD digital version (at great expense, I'm sure) a couple years ago, this was a great example of how things are different between Anaheim and Orlando. Effects, animatronics, lighting, audio, and even the CM behavior, appearance, and oratorial skill. All are quite different between the two coasts.

Which is a shame because the DAK version of this 3D show has that stunning Tree of Life facility and impressive queue to use to its advantage. But they blow it all once you get inside and a CM hands you your scratchy 3D glasses.

Somehow the 3D glasses in Anaheim aren't scratched up. And that's endlessly fascinating to me. Maybe I'm just too detail oriented?

 

[TheGhostWithTheMost]

Also, there is a wooden pathway along the left side of the track leading to the Blackbeard area, has this always been there?

It's been there since the 90's!

 

[Little Green Men]

I think to change it they'd have to add a second warehouse to the ride facility, and make up the missing seven minutes of ride time elsewhere. But artistically, that would get really weird.

Know what the other good barometer attraction I use on my WDW vs. Disneyland trips? You'll never guess...

It's Tough To Be A Bug. Even before Disneyland moved to the crystal-clear HD digital version (at great expense, I'm sure) a couple years ago, this was a great example of how things are different between Anaheim and Orlando. Effects, animatronics, lighting, audio, and even the CM behavior, appearance, and oratorial skill. All are quite different between the two coasts.

Which is a shame because the DAK version of this 3D show has that stunning Tree of Life facility and impressive queue to use to its advantage. But they blow it all once you get inside and a CM hands you your scratchy 3D glasses.

Somehow the 3D glasses in Anaheim aren't scratched up. And that's endlessly fascinating to me. Maybe I'm just too detail oriented?

It's been a while since I've been to DCA, but ITTBAB looked great two weeks ago at DAK. Animatronics worked great, no scratches on glasses, all effects worked.

 

[YodaMan]

There is only one way that you could sell TDO on the value added by switching from a separate load/unload system to a flush load/unloading system is that you could increase the capacity of the attraction by putting all of the boats in use that are in between the unload and load zones. The boats would also stay in motion more consistently as they would only need to stop once instead of twice. The tangible gain would be small; but, that would be the only way I would ever pitch it to management that would have any hope of it being approved. Oh, and I would add in "we could increase the number of available FP+ reservations in a day for Pirates by doing this".

Sadly I don't think that would work for convincing TDO. Making the ride longer has no effect on capacity; it just changes how many guests are on the ride at a time (not how many get loaded in one hour). If anything, it might lower capacity. Instead of just loading guests where they currently do, they have to take the time to load and unload guests between boat dispatch. Which actually means boats get sent out less frequently and that less guests ride each hour. As much as I'd love a longer ride, I sadly doubt it would happen.

 

[Mike S]

It's been a while since I've been to DCA, but ITTBAB looked great two weeks ago at DAK. Animatronics worked great, no scratches on glasses, all effects worked.

Looked great my last trip too.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

ISomehow the 3D glasses in Anaheim aren't scratched up. And that's endlessly fascinating to me. Maybe I'm just too detail oriented?

Interesting that you mention that. Our 3D glasses are all taken to Epcot to be cleaned (in the Journey Into Imagination maintenance bay) where they use a machine originally designed to handle... wait for it... microchip boards! They never bought a real glasses cleaning machine. I am sure at Disneyland you use better equipment.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Sadly I don't think that would work for convincing TDO. Making the ride longer has no effect on capacity; it just changes how many guests are on the ride at a time (not how many get loaded in one hour). If anything, it might lower capacity. Instead of just loading guests where they currently do, they have to take the time to load and unload guests between boat dispatch. Which actually means boats get sent out less frequently and that less guests ride each hour. As much as I'd love a longer ride, I sadly doubt it would happen.

Flush loading would increase capacity by itself. Currently boats sit idle when there are delays at load or unload. Both slow down throughput. Flush loading also has a tendency to have the boarding passengers speed up the exit of the egressing ones as people are trying to get into the seat you are vacating, you tend to move quicker. Ride time would increase in this hypothetical dream of ours; but, all of the boats would be filled with passengers instead of a portion being unoccupied. This means more guests can board during an hour even if they don't exit. Capacity is measured on the input side, not typically the exit side since at park close - whatever is on the attraction still counts towards the previous hour.

These two items combined together would equate to a capacity boost.

Granted... it's never going to happen under current management. Why spend money when you are already playing to a full house? Making popular rides more popular or efficient doesn't do anything to fix the issue with "under performing" attractions.

 

[doctornick]

Interesting that you mention that. Our 3D glasses are all taken to Epcot to be cleaned (in the Journey Into Imagination maintenance bay) where they use a machine originally designed to handle... wait for it... microchip boards! They never bought a real glasses cleaning machine. I am sure at Disneyland you use better equipment.

The leaked plans for Avatar has a room marked 3D glasses cleaning (or something to that effect) so maybe this will be changed in the future.

 

[Figment2005]

The leaked plans for Avatar has a room marked 3D glasses cleaning (or something to that effect) so maybe this will be changed in the future.

Or they could be using a specific type of glasses that the other cleaning facilities are not equipped to handle?

 

[pumpkin7]

I'd love for the rest of the AAs to be just as lifelike as Jack Sparrow.. But that ain't gonna happen!

But that's why he stands out. All the other AAs are cartoony, which washow they were designed. Change them all like Jack and theyll look odd.

 

[peter11435]

Flush loading would increase capacity by itself. Currently boats sit idle when there are delays at load or unload. Both slow down throughput. Flush loading also has a tendency to have the boarding passengers speed up the exit of the egressing ones as people are trying to get into the seat you are vacating, you tend to move quicker. Ride time would increase in this hypothetical dream of ours; but, all of the boats would be filled with passengers instead of a portion being unoccupied. This means more guests can board during an hour even if they don't exit. Capacity is measured on the input side, not typically the exit side since at park close - whatever is on the attraction still counts towards the previous hour.

These two items combined together would equate to a capacity boost.

Granted... it's never going to happen under current management. Why spend money when you are already playing to a full house? Making popular rides more popular or efficient doesn't do anything to fix the issue with "under performing" attractions.

Capacity would only be increased if you also decreased the time between boats being dispatched. Having boats not sit empty just means more guests would be on the ride at one time not that it would carry more guests over a period of time.

Also not all attractions count guests before they ride. Several attractions including pirates count guests when they get off.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

But that's why he stands out. All the other AAs are cartoony, which washow they were designed. Change them all like Jack and theyll look odd.

I doubt the comment meant they should change their designs to a more realistic human appearance, but rather upgrade the internal robotics to allow better movement. Jack is said to be a compliant A100 animatronic, a much newer and immensely more smooth moving animatronic than most of the older AA models still used in the rest of the ride. I've also read that the auctioneer was upgraded to an A100 frame back with compliant hydraulic motion during the time when Jack was added to the ride, though he obviously retains his original design from the original ride. WDI also showed off a new A100 Hatbox Ghost at D23 using his own original goofy design as well (rumored to be coming to Disneyland's Haunted Mansion in the future, perhaps WDW's as well if we're lucky). So you can upgrade the movement of older AA figures while still remaining loyal to the artistic design of the original figures.

Interesting that you mention that. Our 3D glasses are all taken to Epcot to be cleaned (in the Journey Into Imagination maintenance bay) where they use a machine originally designed to handle... wait for it... microchip boards! They never bought a real glasses cleaning machine. I am sure at Disneyland you use better equipment.

I'm unsure whether it's the fault of the projected image or the 3D glasses, but 2 of the 4 3D movies at WDW have AWFUL double (or even triple) image crosstalk. I doubt it's my eyes because Muppetvision looks perfectly fine for me, and last I visited Captain EO it had pretty darn good image quality as well (though that hasn't been for several years).

I believe Muppetvision was upgraded to digital some time back however. So perhaps the lack of film wear and tear or dirt is why the image is so clear and lacks the ghosting the other 3D movies have. Philharmagic was looking dire last I watched it, same for ITTBAB (though this one recently got a refurb so may have improved, don't know).