Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Seems like spending (by guests) went down on food, beverage and merch in recent years. Isn't that where the real money comes from, not just admission?
I think a lot of that has to do with the sliding scale of the admission price. The Magic Your Way tickets kind of ruins the per day pricing profits while simultaneously keeping inpark spending afloat. MYW went into effect in 2005. (Edited 2005)
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
yeah that is earnings, not what they spend it on... is there a section on what the company spends on things, like electricity...
An item such as electricity typically is recorded as an operating expense (opex). Disney does report opex but since the current discussion seems to center around theme park investing activities, I think what you're more interested in is capital expenditures (capex).

When Disney adds an attraction (e.g. SDMT), builds a garage (i.e. what's happening at DTD), or buys a vehicle, most of the associated cost is recorded as capex.

Opex is not considered an investment while capex generally is.

However, not all capex provides an actual theme park improvement. In fact, Disney reported that their baseline capex without special projects was over $1 billion annually in 2005. Think of this as replacing something that is old. For example, Disney purchasing a new bus to replace an old bus that has reached the end of its usefulness.

Disney generally refers to this type of capex as "maintenance capital". It is recorded as capex but does not represent a true investment. What's the alternative, spend over $200/night at a Moderate Resort hotel just to ride a bus that's 20 years old, with worn out seats, and belching out fumes?

Really, it's not surprising that Disney spends so much. Whether it's theme parks, hotels, or cruise ships, Disney's Parks & Resort (P&R) segment is a capital intensive business. In 2013, P&R realized over $14 billion in revenue. Spending over a billion annually just to keep that enormous (and aging) infrastructure in place is to be expected.

Expenses generally are managed as percentages of revenue. Two companies might spend identical dollar amounts on capex in a given year but if one company has significantly less revenue, then its investment strategy is considered more aggressive.

From this perspective, Disney's highest investment level occurred in 1982, the year Disney finished EPCOT. That fiscal year, Disney's P&R capex ran a whopping 89% of revenue!!!

The other extreme was in 2008 under Disney's current CEO Bob Iger, when P&R capex was a miserly 8.1%. :mad:

For his 21 years as CEO, Michael Eisner averaged 22.2%.

So far, Iger has averaged 14.1%.

With three-quarters of the fiscal year complete, Iger's domestic capex (i.e. WDW & DLR) for 2014 stands at 7.3%, the third lowest in the history of the company, beaten only by Iger's 6.9% domestic capex in 2008 and 6.7% in 2006.

Most of what Iger is spending today is overseas.

Below is P&R revenue and capex levels under Iger, who became CEO at the beginning of FY2006.

Iger Domestic & Total Capex.jpg
 
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El Grupo

Well-Known Member
An item such as electricity typically is recorded as an operating expense (opex). Disney does report opex but since the current discussion seems to center around theme park investing activities, I think what you're more interested in is capital expenditures (capex).

When Disney adds an attraction (e.g. SDMT), builds a garage (i.e. what's happening at DTD), or buys a vehicle, most of the associated cost is recorded as capex.

Opex is not considered an investment while capex generally is.

However, not all capex provides an actual theme park improvement. In fact, Disney reported that their baseline capex without special projects was over $1 billion annually in 2005. Think of this as replacing something that is old. For example, Disney purchasing a new bus to replace an old bus that has reached the end of its usefulness.

Disney generally refers to this type of capex as "maintenance capital". It is recorded as capex but does not represent a true investment. What's the alternative, spend over $200/night at a Moderate Resort hotel just ride a bus that's 20 years old, with worn out seats, and belching out fumes?

Really, it's not surprising that Disney spends so much. Whether it's theme parks, hotels, or cruise ships, Disney's Parks & Resort (P&R) segment is a capital intensive business. In 2013, P&R realized over $14 billion in revenue. Spending over a billion annually just to keep that enormous infrastructure in place is to be expected.

Expenses generally are managed as percentages of revenue. Two companies might spend identical dollar amounts on capex in a given year but if one company has significantly less revenue, then its investment strategy is considered more aggressive.

From this perspective, Disney's highest investment level occurred in 1982, the year Disney finished EPCOT. That fiscal year, Disney's P&R capex ran a whopping 89% of revenue!!!

The other extreme was in 2008 under Disney's current CEO Bob Iger, when P&R capex was a miserly 8.1%. :mad:

For his 21 years as CEO, Michael Eisner averaged 22.2%.

So far, Iger has averaged 14.1%.

With three-quarters of the fiscal year complete, Iger's domestic capex (i.e. WDW & DLR) for 2014 stands at 7.3%, the second lowest in the history of the company, beaten only by Iger's 6.9% domestic capex in 2008.

Most of what Iger is spending today is overseas.

Below is P&R revenue and capex levels under Iger, who became CEO at the beginning of FY2006.

View attachment 66239

Just to make sure I understand, does the P & R capex include the cruise line (and ship purchases)?
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Just to make sure I understand, does the P & R capex include the cruise line (and ship purchases)?
Quoting from Disney's 2013 10K description of Parks & Resorts:

PARKS AND RESORTS

The Company owns and operates the Walt Disney World Resort in Florida, the Disneyland Resort in California, Aulani, a Disney Resort & Spa in Hawaii, the Disney Vacation Club, the Disney Cruise Line and Adventures by Disney. The Company manages and has effective ownership interests of 51% in Disneyland Paris, 48% in Hong Kong Disneyland Resort and 43% in Shanghai Disney Resort, each of which is consolidated in our financial statements. The Company also licenses the operations of the Tokyo Disney Resort in Japan. The Company’s Walt Disney Imagineering unit designs and develops new theme park concepts and attractions as well as resort properties.
An important point to consider is that Disney records capex for all international operations (except TDR, which is just a licensing agreement) but that Disney doesn't ultimately pay a large chunk of that.

For example, Disney reported "investing" $800M this year in Shanghai Disneyland. However, the Shanghai Shendi Group reimburses Disney 57% of that $800M elsewhere on the books.

Thus, Disney's international investing activities are artificially inflated. The reality is that corporate Disney is investing $400M less in Shanghai in 2014 than what's reported as capex.

Since Disney wholly owns all domestic operations, Disney's U.S. capex is a better indication of Disney's true investment levels.

When you look at all the numbers, it quickly becomes apparent that Iger and Rasulo don't like investing in their theme parks.

Compare that to stock buybacks. In the first 9 months of fiscal year 2014 alone, Iger and Rasulo spent over $5 billion on stock buybacks.
 
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ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Seems like spending (by guests) went down on food, beverage and merch in recent years. Isn't that where the real money comes from, not just admission?
Historically, Disney collected roughly 1-to-5% more on food, beverage, and merchandise than on ticket sales. There are outlier years here and there but, generally, that trend holds true all the way back to the days of the original Magic Kingdom.

In recent years, particularly from 2011 to 2013, Iger pursued a policy of "price leveraging". Basically, it meant raising prices as fast as the market would bear. You'll notice that the large gap between admission vs. food, beverage, and merchandise started to appear only in those years.

In 2013, food, beverage, and merchandise sales was only 89% of admission. That gap is unprecedented in the history of corporate Disney.

My theory is that consumers look at Disney vacations holistically. They have only so much to spend. Raising ticket prices faster than their ability to pay meant that customers reduced spending elsewhere.

Last year, domestic attendance was up 4% while prices were up more than that. Yet Disney managed only 6% growth on merchandise, food, and beverage revenue. That’s a pretty good indication that Disney's prices are reaching a tipping point.

WDW's ticket prices are up a more modest 4% in 2014 (so far ;)). To me, it seems Disney has recognized the trend and that after 3 straight years of aggressive price increases, realized it just might be time to slow down a bit.
 
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danlb_2000

Premium Member
An item such as electricity typically is recorded as an operating expense (opex). Disney does report opex but since the current discussion seems to center around theme park investing activities, I think what you're more interested in is capital expenditures (capex).

When Disney adds an attraction (e.g. SDMT), builds a garage (i.e. what's happening at DTD), or buys a vehicle, most of the associated cost is recorded as capex.

Opex is not considered an investment while capex generally is.

However, not all capex provides an actual theme park improvement. In fact, Disney reported that their baseline capex without special projects was over $1 billion annually in 2005. Think of this as replacing something that is old. For example, Disney purchasing a new bus to replace an old bus that has reached the end of its usefulness.

Disney generally refers to this type of capex as "maintenance capital". It is recorded as capex but does not represent a true investment. What's the alternative, spend over $200/night at a Moderate Resort hotel just ride a bus that's 20 years old, with worn out seats, and belching out fumes?

Really, it's not surprising that Disney spends so much. Whether it's theme parks, hotels, or cruise ships, Disney's Parks & Resort (P&R) segment is a capital intensive business. In 2013, P&R realized over $14 billion in revenue. Spending over a billion annually just to keep that enormous infrastructure in place is to be expected.

Expenses generally are managed as percentages of revenue. Two companies might spend identical dollar amounts on capex in a given year but if one company has significantly less revenue, then its investment strategy is considered more aggressive.

From this perspective, Disney's highest investment level occurred in 1982, the year Disney finished EPCOT. That fiscal year, Disney's P&R capex ran a whopping 89% of revenue!!!

The other extreme was in 2008 under Disney's current CEO Bob Iger, when P&R capex was a miserly 8.1%. :mad:

For his 21 years as CEO, Michael Eisner averaged 22.2%.

So far, Iger has averaged 14.1%.

With three-quarters of the fiscal year complete, Iger's domestic capex (i.e. WDW & DLR) for 2014 stands at 7.3%, the second lowest in the history of the company, beaten only by Iger's 6.9% domestic capex in 2008.

Most of what Iger is spending today is overseas.

Below is P&R revenue and capex levels under Iger, who became CEO at the beginning of FY2006.

View attachment 66239
You're "facts" are not welcome here, we much prefer pixie dust! ;)
 

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
You're "facts" are not welcome here, we much prefer pixie dust! ;)

Well said.

I don't do personal attacks on people; but, I sometimes wonder if some of the biggest fans around this place are locking themselves in the garage huffing pixie dust and accidently left the car's engine running.

Facts and pixie dust definitely don't mix for those types.

Unfortunately, it's that trait that TDO is capitalizing on.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
thank you @ParentsOf4 for some information grounded in fact, not speculation! capex on the whole is up from 10 years ago, not declining, as reported by others here
Domestic capex as a percentage of revenue (a traditional way of viewing expenses) is at its third lowest level since WDW opened in 1971. (I don't have data from earlier years.)

The years from 2006 to 2008 in particular represent an all-time low for Disney. It's "up" in 2014 because Iger set the record for all-time low from 2006 to 2008. It's like saying last year, our team went 0-and-16. This year, we went 1-and-15 so we've got a winning record.

I respectfully suggest you consider the following:

investments.jpg


I don't understand how anyone who understands finance can think domestic capex is "up".
 
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ABQ

Well-Known Member
thank you @ParentsOf4 for some information grounded in fact, not speculation! capex on the whole is up from 10 years ago, not declining, as reported by others here
Yeah, but speaking for myself as a WDW fan, I am looking at it completely opposite, capex is half what it was just two years back, and even at that, I don't know how much is being spent on the east coast vs west. I don't give a crap what's being spent in Asia. Maybe some day I'll get there, but not soon enough, I guess.

edit, thanks Po4 @ParentsOf4 for pointing out my focus item.
 

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
i was looking at the last slide, not this one. 2011 and 2012 were abberations, since thay had to shell out for CRUISELINERS... so the 1b line was broken in 2014 which was more than 06, 07, 08, and 09... but anyway
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
thank you @ParentsOf4 for some information grounded in fact, not speculation! capex on the whole is up from 10 years ago, not declining, as reported by others here
I don't gather you actually read ParentsOf4's posts. A major point is that domestic spending, as a percentage of revenue, is down. One would hope absolute spending would be up now compared to 2004. I also pay more for a carton of ice cream now than I did in 2004. Interestingly, if I continue that analogy, it is even more illustrative. I pay more for a carton of ice cream now compared to 2004 but they've reduced the size of the carton by 25%. Disney invests more money in its parks in 2014 but is actually building less because cost of building has risen.

In reality, park capex SHOULD have increased by as much as hotel rates and ticket prices have increased. It hasn't. It is profit that has gone up. A lot (says the guy w/ two WDW vacations booked).
 

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
as any company would that wants to stay in business... do you think is costs THAT much more to make a can of coca cola, that the price has risen 50% in the last 5 years? or that the bandage that is applied in the hospital costs 400% more that it did just 10 years ago?(speculation there i know but really)
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
as any company would that wants to stay in business... do you think is costs THAT much more to make a can of coca cola, that the price has risen 50% in the last 5 years? or that the bandage that is applied in the hospital costs 400% more that it did just 10 years ago?(speculation there i know but really)
It really isn't worth arguing w/ someone who is hell-bent on concluding that Disney is doing "enough." Suffice it to say, only a small amount of that 50% rise in coke prices is due to corporate greed. Shipping costs are higher for every processed component of your coke. Just like it costs more to ship milk now. I know cow wages haven't risen.

I'm sure you will enjoy all of the additions 2015 will bring to WDW. Oh, wait.
 

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
i enjoy disney with or without additions, i can see that they are in the beginning of an expansion cycle in the MK, which any person with some kind of brain would interpret the hub work as a progressive step to expanding capacity. you simply do not increase capacity without having the traffic patterns to control it safely. this is not a highway project, where some city can build out huge and then have the infrastructure placed later... you build the infrastructure first, then add more capacity.
 

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
and what i lacked from the pictures above @ParentsOf4 is the more historical information you provided in the second slide, and i am mature enough to acknowledge that there has been a downturn. agreements there. as for the marker for MM+, are we sure it was all capex? i was thinking that the tech upgrades would come from a maintenance bucket for IT as well as CAPEX... since the hardware behind the scenes would have to be depreciated out and replaced.
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Wowzers. Lots going on there. When oh when are they going to do something about that horrible view of the side of the Plaza restaurant?

And this pic sure illustrates that they are planning to bury quite a bit of what appears to be electrical conduit inside the hub.

w7M6qZA.jpg
 

FutureWorld1982

Well-Known Member
Please, do not repost all these photos from another source, if possible. A few photos are okay, but you almost posted the entire update. Not to sound rude, but it would be better to avoid doing that.
 

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