Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

[tirian]

This brings up an interesting point about the MK.

With the new construction that emphasizes trees, wooden fences, and wooden lamp posts, Frontierland through Storybook Circus really seem to meld together. Don't get me wrong; it's well done. It just all seems to be extremely similar without enough contrast to feel like you've really moved from one land to another.

Frontierland, Liberty Square, Rapunzel's Tangled Toilets, and FL Forest create one swath of Rustic Land.

Your post made me smile. Just a cement building? That is an accurate depiction of a fair percentage of the buildings in WDW. Google Earth WDW, it has a high percentage of cement buildings within the parks. A little front facade and cement building behind. Pooh, Princess Hall, Peter Pan, Presidents, Pirates they are all cement buildings. Move onto the Studios and there are endless cement buildings minus the steel buildings for backstage. Add a small facade and Star Tours is also a cement building.

Animal Kingdom is building a few additional buildings now, though I believe Dinosaur is also a concrete building too.

The rocks mountains are very old school dating back 60-70 years already, nothing cutting edge a very retro flashback to the past. DL used these rocks mountains from the beginning. WDW uses these Holy Rocks
ad nauseam in four parks, as unoriginal as a cement building. A standard build in almost urban zoo for over a half of century.

 

[Gabe1]

This brings up an interesting point about the MK.

With the new construction that emphasizes trees, wooden fences, and wooden lamp posts, Frontierland through Storybook Circus really seem to meld together. Don't get me wrong; it's well done. It just all seems to be extremely similar without enough contrast to feel like you've really moved from one land to another.

Frontierland, Liberty Square, Rapunzel's Tangled Toilets, and FL Forest create one swath of Rustic Land.

I'm kinda fond of the rocks and the cement buildings. Can't fault Uni for doing the same. They do the job as does Disney with them.

I love Frontierland and Adventureland.They have some real nice character as does Liberty. I'm not so thrilled with how the Old Fantasyland meets the New Fantasyland, it doesn't gel. They just re-did the facades of the Old Fantasyland attractions during FLE construction. Why they didn't completely redo them to match what they were building in FLE is beyond me. They need to pick a theme and stick with it not this retro and old world mix.

Now you come from Liberty/Haunted Mansion to a very old world Tangled potties, move onto the '70's FL and then the new rustic old world FLE and fall into Circus tents. I think the worse misstep is the Tangled Tower overlooking the Haunted Mansion and Liberty Square. An ooops.

 

[marni1971]

Also the poster in question was mentioning about how theming is now in the present. Not the Magic Kingdom 43 years ago.

You compared something new. So I did too.

But why does it matter? Why do you need to compare?

 

[WDWLover#1]

All I was trying to say was that Disney the majority of the time covers theming of show buildings and sightlines really well. I suppose I didn't need the long rant but I was just trying to prove my opinion. And I still think they do it really well.

 

[tirian]

All I was trying to say was that Disney the majority of the time covers theming of show buildings and sightlines really well. I suppose I didn't need the long rant but I was just trying to prove my opinion. And I still think they do it really well.

They do. That's my #1 issue with Uni, followed by how every ride has the exact. Same. Plot.

Oh no! Watch out! Here it comes!

Surrounded by screens.

 

[Kman101]

Personally, I like Transformers, for what it is, but I'm not exactly thrilled to see the sightline of it but I guess it just couldn't be avoided. It seems just so random plopped there and I frankly did a double take the first time seeing it.

If it were part of the studios section where the buildings are all square and visible, fine, but they couldn't think of something else for the showbuilding? And even then, it's just a little gripe and not at all a big deal to me.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

With the new construction that emphasizes trees, wooden fences, and wooden lamp posts, Frontierland through Storybook Circus really seem to meld together. Don't get me wrong; it's well done. It just all seems to be extremely similar without enough contrast to feel like you've really moved from one land to another.

Frontierland, Liberty Square, Rapunzel's Tangled Toilets, and FL Forest create one swath of Rustic Land.

Good point! But me I would say: so it's not well done.

If you can not even distinguish between different lands, then the design is not good, it is plain rubbish.

Somehow, recently at Disney, 'great set decoration' has come to be synonymous with 'great design'. Maybe WDI should recruit less art directors and more architects, planologists and movie directors. And me!

 

[Gabe1]

Personally, I like Transformers, for what it is, but I'm not exactly thrilled to see the sightline of it but I guess it just couldn't be avoided. It seems just so random plopped there and I frankly did a double take the first time seeing it.

If it were part of the studios section where the buildings are all square and visible, fine, but they couldn't think of something else for the showbuilding? And even then, it's just a little gripe and not at all a big deal to me.

Many have said the same thing about the random plopping of Rock'n Roller Coaster at DHS on Sunset Blvd.

The cement building with an All Star Resort style guitar plopped in front of the building didn't seem to fit in with its well themed tower next door neighbor or the imagineering of Sunset Blvd.

 

[Gabe1]

I have said it before, I'm having a problem believing this new Hub design will be a proper 16th century courtyard for the castle. Won't know until the concept drawings leap into reality but it doesn't at first blush look to be themed 16th century.

 

[FerretAfros]

You would think someone in TDO would pick up the phone and call Anaheim to ask if a couple of Disneyland's crowd control experts could fly out for a week to help and teach Magic Kingdom how to do it better. The amount of people they get inside Disneyland each year is comparable to Magic Kingdom, and yet they pull off two Fantasmic shows per night with a Hub fireworks show inbetween and they keep everyone moving and flowing every night. And Disneyland has much smaller walkways than Magic Kingdom does in the Hub and land entry areas.

It can't be rocket science. Just call Anaheim and ask for help and advice. Or maybe there's some ego involved and TDO won't reach out to Anaheim for assistance? Whatever the excuse is, it's not good enough.

Although adding Fantasmic! may seem like it makes things more complicated, but it actually makes it easier for crowd control in the hub. Instead of people only wanting to be in the hub for the fireworks or projection show, they have the choice between the hub and Rivers of America for a big show (not to mention the projections on it's a small world during the fireworks show). Instead of trying to cram tens of thousands of people into a single space, they distribute them throughout the park

MK could really benefit from some other form of evening entertainment that's not based near the hub. MSEP is a good start, but it still has a lot of people congregating in front of the castle and along Main Street. Short of building something that requires completely redoing an area (like DL's F!), I'm not really sure what they could do to create a big enough draw elsewhere in the park. Clearly the dance parties in Tomorrowland aren't going to do it

As a CM (not PAC), it hurts seeing the backlash (for want of better word) towards them on this page. My roommate on my last CP and I know she'd be telling people where to go, or that they couldn't sit/stand in a certain spot and they would simply refuse, or move back the minute the CM walks away. While it may not be perfect, the MK PAC CM's (whoa acronyms) do the absolute best they can, even though they probably have one of the worst jobs in the park. People come to Disney expecting magic and getting basically everything they want and being able to do anything they want and they have to be the ones who almost always have to say no. It's got to be hard. As for the comparisons to Disneyland, while I have no first hand experience, from what I've heard from friends who grew up going to Disneyland, the type of guests at each park is quite different, which may also factor into crowd control situations.

I don't think any of the ill-will here was directed toward the front line CMs trying to battle the guests. It's pretty clear that they're completely overwhelmed and doing the best they can. The issue is with the upper-level decision of how many CMs to put out there; if there were an adequate number of CMs, I'm sure it would be fine. Right now it seems like the little Dutch boy putting his finger in the dike to prevent it from leaking, while waves are crashing over the top

 

[devoy1701]

As a CM (not PAC), it hurts seeing the backlash (for want of better word) towards them on this page. My roommate on my last CP and I know she'd be telling people where to go, or that they couldn't sit/stand in a certain spot and they would simply refuse, or move back the minute the CM walks away. While it may not be perfect, the MK PAC CM's (whoa acronyms) do the absolute best they can, even though they probably have one of the worst jobs in the park. People come to Disney expecting magic and getting basically everything they want and being able to do anything they want and they have to be the ones who almost always have to say no. It's got to be hard. As for the comparisons to Disneyland, while I have no first hand experience, from what I've heard from friends who grew up going to Disneyland, the type of guests at each park is quite different, which may also factor into crowd control situations.

I completely second this. Some of my best friends on my CP were PAC and I just felt awful for them to see them be treated so terribly by some of the guests fairly regularly. It may have to do with the different type of guests or something, I really don't know. But the PAC CM's try their best, I can guarantee you that.

No one is blaming the CMs themselved...just the policies on how they "manage" the crowds. They need to revise the playbook...their current SOP for managing crowds in the hub is absolutely terrible!

 

[micdisney]

I think it will be good to expand the hub for people to move around and watch Wishes.

 

[jdmdisney99]

I have said it before, I'm having a problem believing this new Hub design will be a proper 16th century courtyard for the castle. Won't know until the concept drawings leap into reality but it doesn't at first blush look to be themed 16th century.

Who said it was? I've been assuming it will be themed to early 20th century America (except the Castle forecourt), as it has been for the past 43 years?

 

[TP2000]

No one is blaming the CMs themselved...just the policies on how they "manage" the crowds. They need to revise the playbook...their current SOP for managing crowds in the hub is absolutely terrible!

Yeah, I don't think anyone here blamed the actual CM's. It's the management that's at fault. Disneyland management has it handled, so why doesn't a MK manager pick up the phone and ask 'em "How do you guys do it?"

I assume they've got phones and email at their disposal, even though there's a 3 hour time change.

For those who have experienced both Hubs during fireworks/parade time, it's obvious something different is happening at the Disneyland version.

 

[COProgressFan]

You would think someone in TDO would pick up the phone and call Anaheim to ask if a couple of Disneyland's crowd control experts could fly out for a week to help and teach Magic Kingdom how to do it better. The amount of people they get inside Disneyland each year is comparable to Magic Kingdom, and yet they pull off two Fantasmic shows per night with a Hub fireworks show inbetween and they keep everyone moving and flowing every night. And Disneyland has much smaller walkways than Magic Kingdom does in the Hub and land entry areas.

It can't be rocket science. Just call Anaheim and ask for help and advice. Or maybe there's some ego involved and TDO won't reach out to Anaheim for assistance? Whatever the excuse is, it's not good enough.

The reality is TDO simply does not care. Their heads are so far up their own behinds that asking for advice from tiny little DL would never happen (MK is the most visited park in the world, right? ) It's a shame, because like so many other things they used to be great at, Disney was known for how efficiently and effectively they could manage crowds. This obviously is no longer the case. Guests are put into this very dangerous free-for-all on a regular basis, long after the big shots leave their offices at 5pm.

In addition, if DL's crowd control plan in involves spending one penny more for labor than what the MK's current plan requires, it simply will not happen. That is just the way TDO works.

As another poster mentioned, I'm sure TDO hopes with the hub expansion plans they can eliminate some of PAC labor, but I think that's wishful thinking.

 

[Otamin]

Im sorry but that is a ridiculous statement. Have you seen NFL? The tangled area that's just a bathroom. And the mountain is beautiful. Heres the complete theming and explanation of Animal kingdom part 1:

part 2:
CARS LAND. AHEM.....CARS LAND.
The new Fotlk building-it looks brilliant. Concept art for Disney Springs and Avatar.

And yes blah blah uni is great. Tranformers is a gigantic cement building in the middle of a new York area. Hogwarts show building can be obviously seen as you go up to it. You see a gigantic wall.
Diagon Alley-

I never said the theming was bad, I was referring more to how Disney (or more to the point TDO) are willing to sacrifice theming nowadays. I've yet to visit Disneyland (sadly), but TDA seem to value theming on a much higher level than TDO.

It seems like Disneyland has gotten better with age, but the Magic Kingdom has taken (in my opinion) massive strides backwards.

Anyway my post was referring to the posters claim that trees (theming) aren't important, and I never intended for yet another boring Disney vs Universal argument.

Having said that the matter of the fact is Universal's output recently has been fantastic (despite your claims whilst showing unfinished work), and Universal delivering quality theming is a good thing.

 

[Gabe1]

Who said it was? I've been assuming it will be themed to early 20th century America (except the Castle forecourt), as it has been for the past 43 years?

Why would one assume a 16th Century Castle should have a 20th century courtyard?

That what the original hub was designed to be, a 16th century treed area enabling the force perspective to work while looking down Main Street. It also was the stop for Main Street theming into the 16 Century. 20th century court yard for a 16th Century Castle isn't my idea of cohesive imagineering or theming. The beauty of the imagineering in the Magic Kingdom was no land was ever to run into another themed area. 20th century should be saved for Tomorrowland.

 

[tirian]

I have said it before, I'm having a problem believing this new Hub design will be a proper 16th century courtyard for the castle. Won't know until the concept drawings leap into reality but it doesn't at first blush look to be themed 16th century.

It won't be, but it never really was...

 

[tirian]

IMO there are enough differences to distinguish the lands, but they're all too rustic. It's the rustic Wild West, the earthy Liberty Square, the forested woods of a storybook. Brown, brown, and brown everywhere.

Even Epcot is getting a brown paint job!

Good point! But me I would say: so it's not well done.

If you can not even distinguish between different lands, then the design is not good, it is plain rubbish.

Somehow, recently at Disney, 'great set decoration' has come to be synonymous with 'great design'. Maybe WDI should recruit less art directors and more architects, planologists and movie directors. And me!

 

[ToTBellHop]

IMO there are enough differences to distinguish the lands, but they're all too rustic. It's the rustic Wild West, the earthy Liberty Square, the forested woods of a storybook. Brown, brown, and brown everywhere.

Even Epcot is getting a brown paint job!

Agreed. I don't really think you could mistake Fantasyland Forest for Frontierland, even if they are styled similarly.

If I had to guess, rustic never feels more dated than it is designed to.